King Song S18 Discussion

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

One thing is for sure, the KS-18L is dead. (Not the KS-18XL, that's still got some life in it with much more battery/range and without the suspension for those who are skeptical or are waiting for it to be tested over time first.)

But why would someone spend $1799 for the KS-18L when you can get the KS-S18 for $1899 (just $100 more) with more battery and suspension and everything else, and it's even the same weight!

The 18L may ride better (narrower tire, maybe thinner shell) than the S18. And don't forget aesthetics. I dare say that the 18L is a more elegant looking wheel, with speakers and flashy lights.

It's always nice to have choices.  

[Girth Brooks]

35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I love my ring lights. They can always be turned off. I continue to my mystified why people want to deprive ring lights from the people who like them. Same with speakers.

You don't have to turn on the lights or the speaker. You can be happy and I can be happy.

You can also make room for a lot of cool stuff by removing all of that too. Nothing wrong with wanting those features you mention just as there's nothing wrong with wanting other features in their place. There's 17 wheels you own with the same retread ideas as the others before. 

Some of us want more than what's been offered to date. It appears the market is fully ready to move forward to give us just that. Gotway will possibly make a wheel with all the above mentioned and possibly even more new features as well. Some want to drive a Cadillac and some want a Jeep Wrangler, Good things are on the way for us all. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Girth Brooks

[.....]

I think the 18L MAY be closer to dead. At $100 more, the 18XL wins. Now as for the s18 being the ruination of the 18xl.. maybe not. I could see how a LOT of people would prefer to NOT have an open look nor the worry of more suspension parts. Bluetooth speaker, proven history, rollNZ cover and the price will continue to drop, I think the 18XL put the 18L in danger, but im not sure the s18 puts the XL in danger. I could definitely see the s18 being another wheel, rather than a direct replacement. Only time will tell...

Edited April 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Phong Vu]

44 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I love my ring lights. They can always be turned off. I continue to my mystified why people want to deprive ring lights from the people who like them. Same with speakers.

You don't have to turn on the lights or the speaker. You can be happy and I can be happy.

I love the ring lights, not using them during the day anyway, but I want to be as visible as possible when sun down. Just light me up as xmas tree, I don't mind.

Don't care much about the speaker tho. have it? good. doesn't have it? ok.

But overall, I do agree that those 2 should not be the main features to be mentioned for any new wheel.

"Our new wheel have a new shinny customization ring lights and a better xxx Watt speakers, etc.... so new price gonna be $200 more"  

[Nic]

I wonder if suspension does anything to stop wobbles.

[travsformation]

34 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The 18L may ride better (narrower tire, maybe thinner shell) than the S18. And don't forget aesthetics. I dare say that the 18L is a more elegant looking wheel, with speakers and flashy lights.

Did you just say a sub-3" tire might ride better than a 3" tire?

[.....]

7 minutes ago, Nic said:

I wonder if suspension does anything to stop wobbles.

I seriously doubt it and expect the opposite may be true. Wobbles are side to side mostly, the suspension is up and down. Tho the 2 intertwine, I think your feet and legs are what stop wobbles, excluding some improper outside forces being applied. MAYBE the suspensions could help with reducing the chance a wobble would begin, maybe?

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, Nic said:

I wonder if suspension does anything to stop wobbles.

I was wondering about the same. It might not though, since the only vertical force in the wobble is at the moment when the rider's foot presses down on the pedal that's higher. The suspension might be sensitive enough to kill that, but I'm sure it needs to be tested to find out.

The suspension might decrease the situations that start a wobble though, since I would think that the wheel doesn't get nudged to the side as aggressively in a bump that's not perfectly straight.

[Marty Backe]

33 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

You can also make room for a lot of cool stuff by removing all of that too. Nothing wrong with wanting those features you mention just as there's nothing wrong with wanting other features in their place. There's 17 wheels you own with the same retread ideas as the others before. 

Some of us want more than what's been offered to date. It appears the market is fully ready to move forward to give us just that. Gotway will possibly make a wheel with all the above mentioned and possibly even more new features as well. Some want to drive a Cadillac and some want a Jeep Wrangler, Good things are on the way for us all. 

Speakers, OK. But ring lights take up needed space? No, I can't agree with that.

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Did you just say a sub-3" tire might ride better than a 3" tire?

Depends on the type of riding, but yes. I was riding my Tesla last week (even smaller tire) and it's amazing. But nothing beats a 3-inch wheel for cruising and eating up trails.

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

But since both mechanisms seem to be adjustable, it could indeed be that the S18 suspension was indeed set at a very tight setting. If the rider really is Kuji, this would be expected as well.

But seemed still to be a bit soft and "wobbly". Nothing worse as an suspension hitting the limit!

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

We need more videos!

Definitely - and some serious reviews. Could be the greatest thing on earth or just another thing no one needs or bringing another dangerous design flaw...

At least something with some suspense happening while this "boring" times.

[Nic]

https://motorbikewriter.com/avoid-tank-slapper/

Quote

AVOIDING WOBBLES

What the old videos don’t point out is how these speed wobbles were much more prolific on old bikes because of their thin forks, basic suspension, low-speed-rated tyres, heavy wheels and poor aero.

Speed wobbles are not as prevalent on modern bikes with better suspension, tyres, lighter wheels and better aero.

Riders can also prevent speed wobbles by setting up their suspension correctly (click here for tips) and basic bike maintenance, especially correct tyre pressures. 

 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

One thing nice about owning multiple wheels is the less tendency to change out tires. I believe it’s called ‘Wheel Rotation’.

I am not really there yet...almost. But not yet 😉

[Patton250]

Is Jason selling this as well?

[RagingGrandpa]

4 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Is Jason selling this as well?

 

9 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Sorry but @Jason McNeil’s brain is exploding at the moment. 

 

[Camenbert]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Second, comparing the V11 and S18 riding videos, the S18 suspension doesn't seem to perform very well.

I totally agree, V11 looks better damped (amortized), with as long movements (70mm vs 100mm really ?)

The wait for video review will appear endless (not to mention a direct comparison S18 - V11), especially if you're locked home due to covid

 

[mrelwood]

Some info I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere, from:

https://www.scooterzmalaysia.com/blogs/blog/king-song-s18-electric-unicycle-new-launch-08-april-2020

 

• Suspension adjustable from on to (almost) off, AND a rotary "switch" (dial?) for sensitivity adjustment
• "First ever high performance wheel with limited wiring with all key components housed on PCB"
• "Support monitoring the battery conditions via KingSong APP"
• "Rear light housing displays battery level, braking and turning signals all in one unit"
• "2*5w light high beam with 2*4w short beam. Double the strength of the 16x"
• USB port
• Pedal height: 110 - 210 mm
• Max motor power: 5000 W
• Max motor torque: 140 Nm
• Controller overheat limit: 80 °C
• Motor overheat limit: 120 °C
• Speed reduction starts at 30% battery
• Includes a separate high-pressure pump for adjusting the suspension for rider weight

 

[mike_bike_kite]

One thing I'm not so keen on is the name of the wheel. All their other wheels are the wheel diameter followed by a letter that sort of signifies the type. Unfortunately they already have 18S. I just think S18 looks odd. Do we refer to it as the KSS18?

[Planemo]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

• Suspension adjustable from on to (almost) off, AND a rotary "switch" (dial?) for sensitivity adjustment

 

I suspect the shock unit is like most other Fox shocks. The blue lever will be the lockout, a small dial behind will be the damping adjustment (usually 10 levels) and the preload (sag) setting will be done via schrader valve and high pressure (150psi or so) hand pump.

Kudos to KS for using a well known and fully rebuildable shock brand.

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, Camenbert said:

I totally agree, V11 looks better damped (amortized), with as long movements (70mm vs 100mm really ?)

Ecodrift mentioned the suspension travel as being 90mm, and I even saw 75mm mentioned somewhere for the V11. So I guess the difference could be as small as 15 mm. Then again, the reason for the protruding design on the S18 could be longer arms to achieve a longer suspension travel. 

[Planemo]

I think the S18 system wins because although bulkier, it allows a far better tailored rising rate profile than a linear, fixed linkage.

[xorbe]

35 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Depends on the type of riding, but yes. I was riding my Tesla last week (even smaller tire) and it's amazing. But nothing beats a 3-inch wheel for cruising and eating up trails.

For us "casual users" (short trips, mostly smooth paths) ... is it too soon to ask about 16x2 with humble suspension?  Tesla is such a great all-rounder machine.  (Er, just quoting for context, open-ended question not directed to you Marty.)

Edited April 8, 2020 by xorbe

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, Planemo said:

I think the S18 system wins because although bulkier, it allows a far better tailored rising rate profile than a linear, fixed linkage.

If GW boss already blames KS from stealing the Inmotion technology, I would expect there to be more similarities. Do we know that the V11 definitely has a fixed link mechanism, or could the covers be hiding just a smaller linkage system than what's on the S18?

[fbhb]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

• Suspension adjustable from on to (almost) off, AND a rotary "switch" (dial?) for sensitivity adjustment
• "First ever high performance wheel with limited wiring with all key components housed on PCB"
• "Support monitoring the battery conditions via KingSong APP"
• "Rear light housing displays battery level, braking and turning signals all in one unit"
• "2*5w light high beam with 2*4w short beam. Double the strength of the 16x"
• USB port
• Pedal height: 110 - 210 mm
• Max motor power: 5000 W
• Max motor torque: 140 Nm
• Controller overheat limit: 80 °C
• Motor overheat limit: 120 °C
• Speed reduction starts at 30% battery
• Includes a separate high-pressure pump for adjusting the suspension for rider weight

Kingsong's specs put the travel at 100mm.  Added to that for there to be 100mm difference in pedal height, which you yourself quoted as above, then surely 100mm suspension travel cannot be in question!

[Stillhart]

23 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Is Jason selling this as well?

Pretty sure he said he'd be selling it at $1899 earlier in the thread.

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Some info I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere, from:

https://www.scooterzmalaysia.com/blogs/blog/king-song-s18-electric-unicycle-new-launch-08-april-2020

 

• Suspension adjustable from on to (almost) off, AND a rotary "switch" (dial?) for sensitivity adjustment
• "First ever high performance wheel with limited wiring with all key components housed on PCB"
• "Support monitoring the battery conditions via KingSong APP"
• "Rear light housing displays battery level, braking and turning signals all in one unit"
• "2*5w light high beam with 2*4w short beam. Double the strength of the 16x"
• USB port
• Pedal height: 110 - 210 mm
• Max motor power: 5000 W
• Max motor torque: 140 Nm
• Controller overheat limit: 80 °C
• Motor overheat limit: 120 °C
• Speed reduction starts at 30% battery
• Includes a separate high-pressure pump for adjusting the suspension for rider weight

 

Is this huge news or am I reading it wrong?  I thought KS always limited at like 70%?  Maybe this is a translation error and they mean it limits once 30% is spent (meaning when the battery is at 70%)?