King Song S18 Discussion

[Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina]

17 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i havent seem them side by side i assumed the 18XL was much bigger..

 

You can compare visually below. Not huge difference in the outer size.

We would need to see also the final S18 tire. It is 3 inch wide. So it should be larger than used in all the previous KS EUCs. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina

[meepmeepmayer]

20 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

oh i didnt see where they listed the specs anywhere but the teaser pics with fake range xD lame

You can work the voltage out from the battery size alone. Same for the V11. No spec sheet needed

7 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i must have been dreaming... why did i think this whole time the V11 was going to be 100V lol... maybe that was a rumor or something, now its not so strange that KS wont be 100V.. but yea, why not? O.o

21700 cells vs 100V maybe? Two conspicuous zeros in both?

Why not? Because it would be a total departure from everything KS have done before (which the suspension already is). They don't have a 100V board. Gotway were clever and worked their way up step-by-step, one part at a time.

Surely KS could have done 100V electronics. But I believe it's not that easy (seeing Gotway's failed attempts at 126V it's apparently not as easy as just using higher rated components), and KS would have started at zero, to add to the suspension. And maybe (as before) they just don't want to do the step to 100V (or above 50kph) in the first place.

I'm not surprised, but I also wouldn't have been surprised if IM and KS would have gone 100V with such radical all-new wheels. It's interesting that they went 84V. This isn't necessarily good or bad, but notable because we don't know why.

[.....]

5 minutes ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

You can compare visually below. Not huge difference in the outer size.

We would need to see also the final S18 tire. It is 3 inch. So it should be larger than used in all the previous KS EUCs. 

awesome compare photo. Wow, looks like the 16x has enough sidewall that is is nearly the same as the 18. I bet you are right, its gna be a tall 18 sidewall + the added height of suspension. I'd guess itll almost look like a monster when unsprung, but hopefully settles an inch under rider weight. Too cool, maybe the sks18 will FEEL smoother and bigger than the current 18XL offering. At least at 84v, any current ks owners will now have 2 chargers for faster charges.

Edited April 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

7 minutes ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

You can compare visually below. Not huge difference in the outer size.

We would need to see also the final S18 tire. It is 3 inch. So it should be larger than used in all the previous KS EUCs. 

wow that is massive! and what do you have on that rockwheel is that a different tire, looks thicker?

Edited April 8, 2020 by Rywokast

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You can work the voltage out from the battery size alone. Same for the V11. No spec sheet needed

21700 cells vs 100V maybe? Two conspicuous zeros in both?

Why not? Because it would be a total departure from everything KS have done before (which the suspension already is). They don't have a 100V board. Gotway were clever and worked their way up step-by-step, one part at a time.

Surely KS could have done 100V electronics. But I believe it's not that easy (seeing Gotway's failed attempts at 126V it's apparently not as easy as just using higher rated components), and KS would have started at zero, to add to the suspension. And maybe (as before) they just don't want to do the step to 100V (or above 50kph) in the first place.

I'm not surprised, but I also wouldn't have been surprised if IM and KS would have gone 100V with such radical all-new wheels. It's interesting that they went 84V. This isn't necessarily good or bad, but notable because we don't know why.

im not that smart  ohhhh maybe that was it yea... mmhm makes sense logically too much of a gamble

[Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina]

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

wow that is massive! and what do you have on that rockwheel is that a different tire, looks thicker?

It was the Inmotion V10 tire, 2.5 wide. 

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

It was the Inmotion V10 tire, 2.5 wide. 

nice

[meepmeepmayer]

28 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

I think only Gotway wheels are 100V now?

Yep only Gotway has 100V wheels.

29 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

I could be wrong, but it seems Gotway also leading the reported battery explosion cases? <--- just by all the posts that I've read around, not by any report.

Were there any battery explosions, any manufacturer? I don't believe so. Piercing a battery in a crash doesn't count, that's just how it works.

Gotway batteries tend to be the best among all manufacturers.

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep only Gotway has 100V wheels.

Were there any battery explosions, any manufacturer? I don't believe so. Piercing a battery in a crash doesn't count, that's just how it works.

Gotway batteries tend to be the best among all manufacturers.

i think "battery explosions" doesnt inmotion win that? the V10 launch, lack of waterproofing, didnt a few go up?... besides people beating the hell out of them i havent heard of any reports either

[meepmeepmayer]

3 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i think "battery explosions" doesnt inmotion win that? the V10 launch, lack of waterproofing, didnt a few go up?

Even that was just isolated cases with clear causes (doesn't excuse the initial fuck-up, but it's over now). There's nothing to worry about in general with any manufacturer.

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Even that was just isolated cases with clear causes (doesn't excuse the initial fuck-up, but it's over now). There's nothing to worry about in general with any manufacturer.

yea for sure.. i just remember a video shortly after launch of a guys v10 on the lawn up in flames.. think he said it had been out in heavy rain, and of course they realized their mistake quickly and did a huge recall.. yea in general batteries have been top notch and the least worrisome aspect haha

[Phong Vu]

26 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Were there any battery explosions, any manufacturer? I don't believe so. Piercing a battery in a crash doesn't count, that's just how it works.

Gotway batteries tend to be the best among all manufacturers.

Something like this: 

My bad, whenever read about smoke and fire, my mind pop up the battery  (Samsung note 7 flashback)

My point of view also can be distorted by the fact I only know about EUC for less than a year, so Gotway are the hottest wheels around since  

Edited April 9, 2020 by Phong Vu

[meepmeepmayer]

7 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

My bad, whenever read about smoke and fire, my mind pop up the battery  (Samsung note 7 flashback)

Yep it was never the batteries. Fried mosfets and melted cabling maybe, but the battery packs survived admirably in nearly every case I can recall, and never caught on fire/exploded.

-

Speaking of batteries (on topic), the S18 battery packs have nice metal casings!

Edited April 9, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[fryman]

KS,  more battery please.

[Eucenduro]

Hi everybody!!! )) 

I have a question about kss18 battery. Let's see if anyone can help me and tell me if i'm right:

5000mah LG

3p battery support 1.200w motor and they put 2200

15000mah

15a X 74v = 1110 wh ks s18

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, fryman said:

KS,  more battery please.

I think it comes down to basic geometry. That's all you're going to get on this design. Shocks take valuable real estate

[.....]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think it comes down to basic geometry. That's all you're going to get on this design. Shocks take valuable real estate

IF this is true, then there wont be much buyers remorse and an Xsks18 won't be coming directly after...  A rare positive spin on it, if you will.

[Flying W]

One thing I've never really understood if why kingsong and gotway 84v wheels have different throttling.  I know a lot more goes into it than just the voltage but gotway isnt dropping people on their faces all the time. 

Maybe this time kingsong have changed other things and they really can throttle at 30% this time.

I know on my gotway mcm5 it is basically always throttling,  speed drops in relation to charge, where my 16s just seems to have a limited top speed so it hits the top speed until around 50% then starts tilting back. 

Both seem to go down very low before "limp home" mode kicks in. 

If this S18 can get full speed to 30% (under load) that would be decent, but I'm still wishing it had more battery.  

I do like that they went with a fox shock and linkage! On the other hand I always loved the simplicity of having only one moving part....I need this virus debacle to go away, get back to work and just "pokemon" out and collect them all!

[mrelwood]

12 minutes ago, Flying W said:

One thing I've never really understood if why kingsong and gotway 84v wheels have different throttling.

KS and GW have largely different philosophies and priorities.

Do remember though that comparing battery levels as percentages makes little sense when comparing the throttling behaviour. Chriull made a great chart to show what the throttling curves look like as actual voltage vs speed:

From:  https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/13209-speed-reduction-graph-rider-info-needed/?do=findComment&comment=263959

 

The graph already shows fundamentally different design philosophies. GW can be used to go faster, as long as there is good battery level remaining. Once it hits 3.3V per cell, GW puts you to walk so that you wouldn't ride on a wheel that can no longer handle fast accelerations. KS doesn't want ever to go past 50km/h, but they consider their customers to ride easy enough to handle the battery at much lower voltages. As long as they go slow.

I have no problem understanding that low battery equals slower accelerations, but I often accelerate slowly to quite fast speeds with the MSX even with an almost empty battery. But as the graph shows, at the same voltage level the 18XL would allow me to do so as well.

If I were to make my own EUC, at full battery it would behave like a GW, and at some point the pedal mode would switch to a softer setting to tell the user to switch to a cooler riding mode as well. It would then throttle like the 18XL. Best of both worlds!

[.....]

in the interest of blah blah blah.... I just preordered from e-wheels, and i am one step closer to being an official guinea pig. Someones gotta do it, may as well be me. I will kick the holy crap out of this new wheel. Its mine, I can break it if i want . Kingsong has impressed me with my 18L, I have a little more comfort in knowing WHO this one will come from. It also helps to know that a trusty 18L awaits, should this sks18 (yup, thats what ima calling it, deal with it!) has sever teething issues or i destroy it within 10 minutes and have to wait 10 yrs for parts.  NOW, we need Jason (e-wheels) to get us early risk takers and investors, a great price. I also cant stress it enough, I'd really like to have a tire option that isnt street slick. Dont make me buy up a crap ton of tires to try and fail and end up modifying something! Anyhow, I couldnt take it any longer, the dice have been rolled.  Did you see that Kingsong: You just sold a preorder to a bitter, negative and ocd asshat...   You may regret this in the end....

[Flying W]

@mrelwood, blending the two as you suggest would be awesome! 

I do find it remarkable that when I started this adventure 6k miles ago 30mph was unheard of speed and now we are see the first suspension designs and 30mph is almost the bare min of acceptable speed! 

One could throw a dart at photos of the flag ship wheels and end with an amazing machine these days!

I do want my next wheel to give me 25 to 30 good usable miles in the dirt and 50 or so miles on pavement between 20 to 25mph. I'd like a top speed over 30 so I could get around town commuting in a hurry of running late and weather protection would be great. 

I'm shocked on the speed I can go on the mcm5 at low battery if I gingerly creep up, but seeing that graph I know why. 3.3v being empty is in a way gotways way of having a safety margin. 

 

[Flying W]

@ShanesPlanet, sks18 sounds like a rifle 

[xorbe]

2 hours ago, Eucenduro said:

Hi everybody!!! )) 

I have a question about kss18 battery. Let's see if anyone can help me and tell me if i'm right:

5000mah LG

3p battery support 1.200w motor and they put 2200

15000mah

15a X 74v = 1110 wh ks s18

If those are the 21700 5000mAh 10A cells, then 3p should sustain 74*3*10 = 2220W and probably much higher momentary peak.

If the 7.275A cells, 1615W sustained.  The LG 5000mAh cells I see are actually rated 3.63V nominal (72.6V total) ...

I don't know how many cells are in parallel for this wheel.

1110Wh is a really specific number.  4p would be something very odd like 3750mAh * 4*20 * 3.7V = 1110Wh

Edited April 9, 2020 by xorbe

[gon2fast]

Pre-order is paid in full. It will be interesting to see how it handles my 260lb frame. Granted, I will not be riding up/down stairs and/or curbs, but I anticipate that the "ghost ripples" on my local paths that have detached me from my wheels before will no longer be an issue (with proper calibration of the shock).  

 

[.....]

Im 130lb frame, we can compare notes as we are somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. Having the fox  type shock, sealed the deal for me. I am really hoping that its of dimensions that enable us to swap out or adjust very closely, as just you and I differ in both weights and useage intentions. Did you specify color? I told Jason no preference, because i just dont know. Not a fan of white usually, but also not a big fan of rubberized coatings... tis why I left it up to jason.  What sealed the sks18 deal for you, as I see you are coming FROM innovation? Me, im a biased KS snob. I do hope KS sends tons of repair parts with the preorders, as I fully expect to need something soon after its arrival.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet