King Song S18 Discussion

[Rehab1]

10 minutes ago, travsformation said:

But @Marty Backe said that Kuji said it's slow...

(A new wheel and we all turn into children again)

When did we stop?

[GyroRideRz]

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Out of the 17 wheels that I've owned, only 3 required me to remove a tire for repairs. But I agree that it would be nice if working on the tire was not a nightmare. I continue to hope that I never have to replace the Z10 tire.

You can't know are true you are ^^

I changed mine and god it was such a pain :'( i don't wish this to anyone. 

[Nic]

4 minutes ago, GyroRideRz said:

You can't know are true you are ^^

I changed mine and god it was such a pain :'( i don't wish this to anyone. 

You need to try changing a tyre on an e-scooter like Xiaomi M365 ... makes EUC tyre change seem like child play.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

From the specs it looks like it's the same motor as the 16X?

But if it is already at the performance limit above 40-45km/h, how would it be with an 18" wheel and even smaller battery? 😢

[.....]

58 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Suspension....for a city wheel?

I think a lot of people are looking at this wheel with off-roading in mind, and that's what the aggressive design conjures in my mind. I can understand range as a tradeoff, more of a "go nuts offroading for a couple of hours" (more leisure oriented), but slow? As in top speed or not torquey? KS, don't do that to us !!!

Im seeing this as ONLY an off road wheel.  Its obviously not any faster or longer range than a regular wheel(my 18L sustains me at 50kmh very well). They are touting a 40degree climb ability. Last I checked, most streets dont go 40 degrees(yeah yeah, i know.. stairs). It hasnt much for safety in lighting, it doesnt have speaker. I cant see why people would assume this is a city or pavement wheel? The worst thing they could do, is pretend like its built to take some nasty off road abuse, but design it for street use instead.  A street wheel needs more speed and more range. My 18L fits this need pretty well, the S18 brings shocks to the table, but for potholes...give me a break! I see a mono shock suspension and I see dirt. I see plastic panels that will be destroyed in no time,. I see shock linkage that BETTER be made of good alloys and not cheap ass potted metals. If i am mistaken and this is just a fancy smansy street wheel, my money stays in my pocket. What i dont have, is a tough ass wheel that is made to keep the tire planted on gravel as I accellerate up a bumpy firetower road. I dont have a wheel that tears thru a muddy field and ignores gopher holes.  If people are worried about scratching and braking plastic, WHY THE HELL are they looking at an agressive wheel? Probably the same reason an old man buys a sports car and never pushes past 60 mph.....  For me tho, I am looking for a wheel that is made to be repaired and is designed to be abused... you know, like this thing...    (my b-day is in June, ive already plenty of excuses to buy one, but still wondering if this is just a street wheel in disguise.) Notice the open plastic design. Oddly this bike has been under water, ridden in rain, covered in mud, has both electricity and fire and lighting, yet still works. Open frame designs dont scare me at all, they prove easier to inspect and clean. Hard to tell, but this supermoto has had its ass kicked for years. Why it look so good? Because Im a maintenance freak, I comb thru it regularly, and every part i could need is available in stock and a ton in aftermarket... For those that know, the drz400 is an old as hell design, yet they still sell them today...  Take note KS, THIS is how a legend is made... Ask Suzuki if that bike proved profitable.

Edited April 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

6 minutes ago, buell47 said:

From the specs it looks like it's the same motor as the 16X?

But if it is already at the performance limit above 40-45km/h, how would it be with an 18" wheel and even smaller battery? 😢

45km/h on a 16" has the same amount of full tire revolutions per minute than 55 km/h on an 18". Since the lower speed torque on the 16X hasn't been a problem, at 45-50km/h the S18 should do much better than the 16X.

[mrelwood]

9 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I cant see why people would assume this is a city or pavement wheel?

First off, the tire is a 100% road tire, and slippery as duck on mud.

Second, comparing the V11 and S18 riding videos, the S18 suspension doesn't seem to perform very well. It's still way too early to tell since we haven't seen the actual production versions and the early videos may not be comparable for various other reasons as well, but so far to me the S18 seems actually less off-road worthy than the 18XL.

[xorbe]

If this is really 48.5 pounds, I may have to try one.

[.....]

8 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

First off, the tire is a 100% road tire, and slippery as duck on mud.

Second, comparing the V11 and S18 riding videos, the S18 suspension doesn't seem to perform very well. It's still way too early to tell since we haven't seen the actual production versions and the early videos may not be comparable for various other reasons as well, but so far to me the S18 seems actually less off-road worthy than the 18XL.

I noticed the tire as well, it was one of my first worries. I already assume that a knobby needs be available. You are right, if theres no knobbies to be had, this may be a hard pass for me.

As for the suspension, i can only HOPE it works as well as it could. I mean hell, mono shock geometry isnt a new thing. Im always hoping for a little too much, tis why i REALLY need to see a person with more skill than I, put this thing thru the wringer.

Having an 18L, my street needs are met in spades. The ONLY reason I think i'd enjoy one of these is the hope it begs to be taken to the dirt.  18l for 50kmh street, mten for the random stupid trick shit and an s18 to run up the mountain and thru the woods. AN ideal trio! High hopes as usual.

Edited April 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Dave Wood]

I wouldn't put to much focus into the motor wattage, all these motors in electric PEVS aint been used to their full potential because even if the batteries can output the volts, the ESCS can only handle so much,  if a motors rated for 2000w there's no way you'd ever draw that kinda wattage

Edited April 8, 2020 by Dave Wood

[.....]

4 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

I wouldn't put to much focus into the motor wattage, all these motors in electric PEVS aint been used to their full potential because even if the batteries can output the volts, plus the ESCS can only handle so much,  if a motors rated for 2000w there's no way you'd ever that kinda wattage

I dunno, Im still fairly new and come close to hitting 2kw in use on a regular street run(even more once i manage to stay atop one while tearing up a dirt mountain pass). Surely someone is out there pushing up against the power limit of these things already.

Edited April 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

4 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

I wouldn't put to much focus into the motor wattage, all these motors in electric PEVS aint been used to their full potential because even if the batteries can output the volts, the ESCS can only handle so much,  if a motors rated for 2000w there's no way you'd ever draw that kinda wattage

The motor wattage rating on all EUCs is a nominal rating that they’ll endure for extended times. Peak power is traditionally 3-4 times as much.

What makes monitoring difficult is that other than GW show the wattage drawn from battery, not what the controller gives out. GW shows the motor phase current, but fails to take the duty cycle in consideration and thus can’t be used to show any meaningful values.

[Rehab1]

35 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

For those that know, the drz400

I have the DR200. Fun bike!

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Out of the 17 wheels that I've owned, only 3 required me to remove a tire for repairs. But I agree that it would be nice if working on the tire was not a nightmare. I continue to hope that I never have to replace the Z10 tire.

Aye. But you don't have to worry about winter road conditions and summer time....

[Dave Wood]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The motor wattage rating on all EUCs is a nominal rating that they’ll endure for extended times. Peak power is traditionally 3-4 times as much.

What makes monitoring difficult is that other than GW show the wattage drawn from battery, not what the controller gives out. GW shows the motor phase current, but fails to take the duty cycle in consideration and thus can’t be used to show any meaningful values.

kinda what i meant, the speed controller is technically the weak link, the max batt current is limited by your motor amp setting which is controlled through  the speed controller.. im not sure what speed controllers they use in EUCs but im not a total knob i build electric mountain boards which have to draw huge amp and to my mind the best speed controllers are vesc6's which retail at around £300 each and their rated for 80am con or 150amp max which still wouldn't max out your motor for any significant time

[travsformation]

56 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm seeing this as ONLY an off road wheel.  It hasnt much for safety in lighting, it doesnt have speaker. I cant see why people would assume this is a city or pavement wheel? The worst thing they could do, is pretend like its built to take some nasty off road abuse, but design it for street use instead.  A street wheel needs more speed and more range.

 

[Girth Brooks]

1 hour ago, Jonesq said:

I'm digging that wheel manufacturers are moving away from the disco lights and going towards more of a "vehicular" motif.

This can't be overstated for me. The fact that the EUC market is moving in the direction of forward thinking engineering over BT speakers and rings lights is the most exciting news I have seen since the first time I ever saw a wheel on YouTube.

[JZT-Colorado]

1 minute ago, Girth Brooks said:

This can't be overstated for me. The fact that the EUC market is moving in the direction of forward thinking engineering over BT speakers and rings lights is the most exciting news I have seen since the first time I ever saw a wheel on YouTube

Correct.  Weight-savings is a benefit on 100% of my rides... but when I want music, I just clip one of these to my belt:  https://www.jbl.com/bluetooth-speakers/JBL+CLIP+3.html

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, fryman said:

For me KS needs to make this wheel 1600wh.

With the new 21700 cells, likely 84V battery sizes are 1110Wh (3x20 cells), 1480Wh (4x20 cells, same as the V11, not sure why they make that 1420Wh there), or 1850Wh (5x20). Multiples of 370Wh (20 cells) in general.

Unfortunately I'm not sure they can cram more batteries in the S18 later like they did with the 18L->18XL.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

One thing nice about owning multiple wheels is the less tendency to change out tires. I believe it’s called ‘Wheel Rotation’.

Yes, that's the real secret to never having to change a tire 

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

This can't be overstated for me. The fact that the EUC market is moving in the direction of forward thinking engineering over BT speakers and rings lights is the most exciting news I have seen since the first time I ever saw a wheel on YouTube.

I love my ring lights. They can always be turned off. I continue to be mystified why people want to deprive ring lights from the people who like them. Same with speakers.

You don't have to turn on the lights or the speaker. You can be happy and I can be happy.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, travsformation said:

Suspension....for a city wheel?

I think a lot of people are looking at this wheel with off-roading in mind, and that's what the aggressive design conjures in my mind. I can understand range as a tradeoff, more of a "go nuts offroading for a couple of hours" (more leisure oriented), but slow? As in top speed or not torquey? KS, don't do that to us !!!

Ever hear New York City riders talk about how crappy their roads are? Yes, city riding can greatly benefit from suspension. I still worry that the suspension might be more of a detriment for trail riding. And I'm talking about manly trail riding, not manicured puff pieces that some people call trails 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, GyroRideRz said:

You can't know are true you are ^^

I changed mine and god it was such a pain :'( i don't wish this to anyone. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Short @EcoDrift article about the S18

Some interesting new info (batteries, suspension) and a picture of the mosfets. Picture credit EcoDrift.

Edited April 8, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[AtlasP]

One thing is for sure, the KS-18L is dead. (Not the KS-18XL, that's still got some life in it with much more battery/range and without the suspension for those who are skeptical or are waiting for it to be tested over time first.)

But why would someone spend $1799 for the KS-18L when you can get the KS-S18 for $1899 (just $100 more) with more battery and suspension and everything else, and it's even shockingly the same weight!

In specs and essentials (if not in lineage), the KS-S18 can be thought of as basically a KS-18L with suspension--similar range/top-speed/weight/price/etc.

Edited April 8, 2020 by AtlasP