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King Song S18 Discussion

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1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

The ability to 'upgrade' from the current pack to the 'XS' version at a later date, would make being an early adopter, more feasible. If they make the damn things tough enough and serviceable enough with parts available, I wouldnt be worried so much. I could beat the crap out of the S model and when came time, upgrade to a larger pack (after the old pack loses some zing). I think we are currently at the whim of battery tech. I'd LOVE to go 45mph, but i damn sure dont want to pay $2k for 80lbs of batteries. Cmon battery tech, as thats what everyone is REALLY asking for, not a magic pile of parts that somehow defies current efficiency by miles. I'm having to accept that I better focus on something otther than range and top speed for now, or I'll miss the advancements in everything else. THe same advancements that will carry on when we finally DO start mass producing personal nuclear reactors for power.

i cant wait until we can have graphene batteries mainstream.. and yes, UPGRADE is the key.. going from the 18L to the 18XL is not so much an upgrade as it is a replacement lol.. wtf do you now do with these two 518 wh batteries??? nobody wants them, they are expensive af... have a space available where i can add the additional batteries should i decide that i want more range later on.. and to have an actual up-gradable cheaper version i think would boost their sales

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I kind of lump everything from the V10F to the S18 in the same group, as they are not interesting to me, yet close enough to eachother to be recommended to someone looking for a somewhat similiar range.

Remains to be seen though wether we'll see a 1600-1800Wh XS18 before christmas. Depends on sale figures and feedback, I'd imagine.

If S18 and V11 are both "50" km/h wheels with the manufacturers' traditional inflations, wouldn't that make the V11 a good bit faster than the S18? I don't remember wether the Inmotion inflation has been measured as precisely though.

My entire intent in commenting on your post was to correct your statement about it being the smallest 18-inch wheel battery since 2016. I have nothing to say regarding your other points.

Edited by Marty Backe

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1 minute ago, Rywokast said:

oh shit, didnt see that.. very nice :) well thats a leg up then for sure.. i was assuming the classic inmotion throttling in which case KS wins... but now inmotion has the bigger battery and theoretically faster top end... cmon kingsong, almost every euc youve made you quickly had a newer bigger battery version, no one wants to get the shaft and be stuck with it when you announce the XL lol.. let us know pleeease about the ability to upgrade

I agree. At this price point, if i go ALL IN on a wheel that hasnt been out long, I would be FURIOUS to find it has been upgraded and I missed out, shortly thereafter. The early adopters help pay for the release and then the later adopters get to enjoy the 'upgrade'. From what I've already realized, its worth the extra to just get the biggest battery possible. If you're trying to save $$, this kind of wheel is probably not the direction you should be purchasing. Its like buying a badass sports car and then opting for the 6-cylinder auto.  The REAL mustang owners know that you either buy the big block v-8 5 speed, or you buy a honda civic.  If you're going to jump, jump big. Now you got me wondering: WIll i be a guinea pig for the company AND regret it 3 months later when I bigger battery is offered? Nearing the $3k mark, buying an upgarde of the same in a single year is an impossibility.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I agree. At this price point, if i go ALL IN on a wheel that hasnt been out long, I would be FURIOUS to find it has been upgraded and I missed out, shortly thereafter. The early adopters help pay for the release and then the later adopters get to enjoy the 'upgrade'. From what I've already realized, its worth the extra to just get the biggest battery possible. If you're trying to save $$, this kind of wheel is probably not the direction you should be purchasing. Its like buying a badass sports car and then opting for the 6-cylinder auto.  The REAL mustang owners know that you either buy the big block v-8 5 speed, or you buy a honda civic.  If you're going to jump, jump big. Now you got me wondering: WIll i be a guinea pig for the company AND regret it 3 months later when I bigger battery is offered? Nearing the $3k mark, buying an upgarde of the same in a single year is an impossibility.

yea its gonna be way too much to turn around and try to sell it three months later lol... generally the more expensive things get, the more diminishing returns from resale you get.. i really have to force myself to go against my nature and WAIT to see about a V2 lol. unless of course, they flat out say you can just buy another battery separate theres a compartment right here for it :thumbup:

Edited by Rywokast

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1100Wh is a joke. I’d love to test ride one to see how the suspension feels, but given my calculation of 45 Wh / mile, this is a 24-25 mile wheel, 30 if you go below top speed. It’s like nobody is interested in upping the ante on top speed instead of gimmicky new tech (which also introduces additional points of failure). 

PSA: Bending your knees is a perfectly suitable alternative for those of us owning inferior wheels. ;) 

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Posted (edited)

If Kingsong wanted to offer a battery upgrade/replacement for those preorder/early adopters, that would be the bees knees! Shipping used batteries around would be a nightmare, but if a swap was offered and one had to only pay the original difference between the two models. You know, buy this one now, and in 6 months you have the option to buy the bigger pack and send in the smaller, only paying the differance? See, there I go... wanting things that are probably unreasonable.

I'd like to know how much weight and how many batteries its going to take (with current tech), to make a 50 mile wheel that safely does 40-45mph? The monster is the leader and its not magic. I'm also going to be looking for a company to figure out how to increase range and speed, but i bet its no coincidence that they are all coming up with similar specs in the end. Of course, the legality issue of speeds that rival a gasoline scooter (insurance required here in the usa), are an entire nother can o worms. I only know usa, but there is a threshold where its getting the attention of law enforcement and highway safety admins. Even so, I totallly want a ks18XXL that doesnt weigh more and happily does 45mph for 60 miles. Im not sure its technically possible atm tho.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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2 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

1100Wh is a joke. I’d love to test ride one to see how the suspension feels, but given my calculation of 45 Wh / mile, this is a 24-25 mile wheel, 30 if you go below top speed. It’s like nobody is interested in upping the ante on top speed instead of gimmicky new tech (which also introduces additional points of failure). 

PSA: Bending your knees is a perfectly suitable alternative for those of us owning inferior wheels. ;) 

i feel ya.. i am certainly not buying a new expensive wheel solely for the suspension.. i have been handling that perfectly fine on my own daily for almost 4 years.. there needs to be more of an incentive i mean good wheels are getting so expensive its really hard to justify something new as an addition when i already have all the wheels i could need... i mean i am a major sucker for new tech so i would be tempted to get it for the looks/flashyness haha, but that battery physically pains me, the range will be worse than my old ass 16S.. i know the ride will probably be sweet which means I DONT WANT TO GET OFF TO CHARGE lmao

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If Kingsong wanted to offer a battery upgrade/replacement for those preorder/early adopters, that would be the bees knees! Shipping used batteries around would be a nightmare, but if a swap was offered and one had to only pay the original difference between the two models. You know, buy this one now, and in 6 months you have the option to buy the bigger pack and send in the smaller, only paying the differance? See, there I go... wanting things that are probably unreasonable.

that would be fantastic, but definitely not something i could ever see them doing.. especially seeing as theyre all based in china which just makes it even more prohibitive, and then they have to say that youre getting the recycled batteries from somebody elses EUC haha no one wants to pay top dollar for something with a used battery >.> i think the option to easily add an additional battery would be much more reasonable from a cost perspective

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i think the option to easily add an additional battery would be much more reasonable from a cost perspective

BINGO...THIS! Painfully obvious that its a much better solution than my idea! And them give me a coupon as a preorder/early customer... see I can ask for MORE no matter what you do. You offer me upgrade with additional cells to be added at a discount later, the buyers remorse when the xs version arrives is WAY less.

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

BINGO...THIS! Painfully obvious that its a much better solution than my idea! And them give me a coupon as a preorder/early customer... see I can ask for MORE no matter what you do. You offer me upgrade with additional cells to be added at a discount later, the buyers remorse when the xs version arrives is WAY less.

yea its funny in most cases companies want to incentivize or reward early adopters.. coupons, bonuses, discounts, free add ons.. euc companies love to penalize them :P 

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Posted (edited)

modular battery pack layout ftw!! Future proof, upgradeable, easily diagnosed and repaired. If the s18 is using modular style boxes already, it would be nice to know, and to know if there happens to be an empty spot for a box by accident later... Imagine what a modular box design could do for an entire line of future euc's. I mean hell, useable human format has its limits. I could see a company settling on a (max batt box size) format, with the possibility of keeping it, even if battery and motor formulas change.

 

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Posted (edited)

100mm, are you pulling my leg? 100mm is over half the height of most curbs I see. 100mm of useable travel means with enough air in the tire, i aint got to hardly even jump. 12 mosfets, maybe even with redundancy in the circuit? Yumm... Marty needs to start conducting races with multiple laps up and down burn hill... make these new ideas prove it! Where's the bulletproof built in touch screen for eucw? I bet you're gna wanna chain this one up if you leave it out.

Hey Kingsong... don't take too long to get them proven and for sale. My patience ebbs quickly, and sometimes enthusiasm wanders as time passes....

 

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, buell47 said:

- 100mm suspension travel

- 12 MosFet without fan (are thermally connected to the frame)

- with 21700 cells

wow, well thats not nothing.. and i am somewhat surprised, not sure why i thought they would be an outlier.. just didnt think everyone would swap to 21700 cells so quick

Edited by Rywokast

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Posted (edited)

I see it in action, that is really neat. Is it set a little stiff? I would assume it would eat those short curbs a little more. But still, this is fantastic. RUn it thru a puddle with white pants on for us, and damn you can roll that footage for longer, it wont hurt! Looks like the valve is low when unsprung, so maybe it CAN tumble end over end and survive..

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, phatmike said:

 

looks sick.. need some higher quality slo-mo though cant really see anything.. its 2020 dammit 4k do eet.. actually this isnt even an official KS video lol this uploader probably just works there

Edited by Rywokast

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I see it in action, that is really neat. Is it set a little stiff? I would assume it would eat those short curbs a little more. But still, this is fantastic. RUn it thru a puddle with white pants on for us, and damn you can roll that footage for longer, it wont hurt! Looks like the valve is low when unsprung, so maybe it CAN tumble end over end and survive..

yea if you compare it to inmotions slow mo video you can see how much the V11 moves.. but here going over that curb honestly looked pretty much the exact same as any other euc

Edited by Rywokast

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They better make DAMN SURE they get the action just right for these teaser vids. We are scrutinizing it as its new and the main reason to even consider this much an upgrade, IS the suspension. With competition coming, everyone better dial in these wheels as best they can... a lot of us watching have  critically high hopes.

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1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I agree. At this price point, if i go ALL IN on a wheel that hasnt been out long, I would be FURIOUS to find it has been upgraded and I missed out, shortly thereafter. The early adopters help pay for the release and then the later adopters get to enjoy the 'upgrade'. From what I've already realized, its worth the extra to just get the biggest battery possible. If you're trying to save $$, this kind of wheel is probably not the direction you should be purchasing. Its like buying a badass sports car and then opting for the 6-cylinder auto.  The REAL mustang owners know that you either buy the big block v-8 5 speed, or you buy a honda civic.  If you're going to jump, jump big. Now you got me wondering: WIll i be a guinea pig for the company AND regret it 3 months later when I bigger battery is offered? Nearing the $3k mark, buying an upgarde of the same in a single year is an impossibility.

You always have a choice, do the wheel provide something that you want now or do you sit out for next iteration/batch/models change. 

Once you buy  you can only look at what you bought at the time that was available at the time. So goes for all brands. And we are not talking same cost as a full new car or MC so we can't use that as examples here. 

But you can also keep waiting and waiting and waiting...But first batch is always risky that is why we often see a introduction/pre-order price. 

2 of my 4 wheels has been from 1st batch. None forced me to buy 1st batch. And yes I have had issues with that but I can in the end only blame myself. Wround I do it again, buying 1st batch...maybe but for now I need more info before I part with this high money as I have wheels to ride that fill my needs right now. Is this suspension such a big game changer as I expect it to me then I am will to go down in battery capacity as I don't ride that long rides in general. The longest I have ridden so far is 40ish km a day. 

So I am very different target user than @Marty Backe so we will have different opinions what is acceptable for a new wheel. Also I don't ride tall mountain bolder trails. I know my body have a limit to what I can do. 

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46 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 RUn it thru a puddle with white pants on for us, and damn you can roll that footage for longer, it wont hurt! 

The early pics show what looks like to me is an inner mudguard (fender?) much like the type used on sports bikes called 'huggers'. This would protect both the shock and your ass from water.

I absolutely LOVE the bad-ass exposed shock and linkage, but then I'm a sucker for anodized alloy. Even better if CNC'd :) I would be more than happy to strip it down/clean and regrease every year if needed. Caressing those beautiful linkages over a pint.....oops got carried away lol

The small battery and low top speed are the only reasons why at the moment this wheel is not on my wish list. Maybe they will up both at some point.

 

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The suspension seems quite noisy and this wheel looks like something they knocked up in a weekend ... maybe it will grow on me. :)

That suspension also takes up a lot of room, so the battery may be smaller than expected like with V11.:(

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