King Song S18 Discussion

[FullTilt]

Hmm... how do you carry this model up a flight of stairs? How would a gentleman accomplish this gracefully?

Edited April 9, 2020 by FullTilt

[.....]

me, im a wimp, there aint a graceful way for me to lift 50lbs up stairs. I would assume it would be similar to the other 18's, tho the handle would turn your wrist 90degrees. I guess we'll have to see. One could always Kuji it and ride up them?

[gon2fast]

33 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Im 130lb frame, we can compare notes as we are somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. Having the fox  type shock, sealed the deal for me. I am really hoping that its of dimensions that enable us to swap out or adjust very closely, as just you and I differ in both weights and useage intentions. Did you specify color? I told Jason no preference, because i just dont know. Not a fan of white usually, but also not a big fan of rubberized coatings... tis why I left it up to jason.  What sealed the sks18 deal for you, as I see you are coming FROM innovation? Me, im a biased KS snob. I do hope KS sends tons of repair parts with the preorders, as I fully expect to need something soon after its arrival.

Agree with everything! Same reaction to the Fox picture even though I ride Cane Creek on my Santa Cruz(s), lol. I think this wheel will be game changing once sag is set in and personal stiffness settings are applied. 

[.....]

6 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Agree with everything! Same reaction to the Fox picture even though I ride Cane Creek on my Santa Cruz(s), lol. I think this wheel will be game changing once sag is set in and personal stiffness settings are applied. 

Jack was transparent and corrected me, i thank him for this. Its a fox type shock, so Im guessing its a cheaper version. Hell, why would they put a $300 shock on an euc, when they have no idea what style and weight a rider is gna be. Hell, how many people do you know that think a shock alone is worth  a 20% increase in price of the entire wheel? Theyll choose a shock that fits the majority of riders and leave it up to the rest of us ocd asshats, to spend a mint on what we want. Now you KNOW we;ll love going shock shopping. Farkles are one of my passions! Im quite excited that i can upgrade if i want to, yet dont have to buy in at a higher price on a shock that may not be my uber preferance.  Kudos for that for sure.  Just the words...  'sag' and 'rebound' and 'stiffness', give me stiffness! Hollah if ya hear me!

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[SamSuffit]

48 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

The wheel is water resistant. There is no wheel that is waterproof. Waterproof would mean that you could dunk your wheel into the after at __meter depth. Our wheel is rain resistant so there is no issues riding it across low puddles or rain. 

Thank you very much for the answer. However, sorry to insist on the topic, but i would have some additional questions:

• your previous wheel, the KS16X has a really bad water and dust protection. I had to make a lot of work in order the limit the risk: silicone joint for water, foam filter for dust, 422B - Silicone Modified Conformal Coating - MG Chemicals applied on the electronics inside. That is a lot of work. Another member showed what it looks like to do this: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/15656-king-song-16x-mods-thread/page/2/
• So is this water/dust resistant of the S18 really better than the KS16X?
• If so, why you do not claim IP55 compliance as your competitor Inmotion?
• After off roading, can I clean my wheel by putting it in the shower?

Sorry again, but for me losing 2K due to some rain while commuting/off roading is hard to swallow...

[Rywokast]

18 minutes ago, FullTilt said:

Hmm... how do you carry this model up a flight of stairs? How would a gentleman accomplish this gracefully?

same as any other wheel? what do you mean haha... if you wanna see graceful dont try carrying a 2100 wh nikola up a few flights of stairs.. 48 lbs is a lightweight and this has a proper, comfortable handle

Edited April 9, 2020 by Rywokast

[FullTilt]

15 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

me, im a wimp, there aint a graceful way for me to lift 50lbs up stairs. I would assume it would be similar to the other 18's, tho the handle would turn your wrist 90degrees. I guess we'll have to see. One could always Kuji it and ride up them?

 

8 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

same as any other wheel? what do you mean haha... if you wanna see graceful dont try carrying a 2100 wh nikola up a few flights of stairs.. 48 lbs is a lightweight and this has a proper, comfortable handle

Ah I get it. Absent hidden inner "side pockets", the horizontal trolley handle will stay put and double as a carry handle. It'd then be a "bowler's grip" as opposed to a "briefcase grip". Or  rather a "bicep curl grip" with the 50lb weight 

[.....]

yup... i didnt notice until it was pointed out to me. 2 of those 4 fork tubes are actually the extension holders for a trolley. I'm betting its to be carried with it down and you put your hand in the top pocket. KS went thru a learning curve about how we adore a working trolley that can lift these heavier wheels. Luckily, Im sure they applied what they learned, to making this handle useable. Still, lifting 50lbs is lifting 50lbs. Lotta handicapped ramps nowadays, and jumping curbs is doable. Having to lift the damn things, entices me to figure out how to ride up that shit or around it when i can. Im hoping i can preload this suspension a tiny bit and itll make hopping up things much easier. MAYBE those ankle pockets will be great. SO many details, hard to know what they came up with exactly. I bet lessons were learned in the water dept, upon the 16x release too.  lol

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Jack King Song said:

The wheel is water resistant. There is no wheel that is waterproof. Waterproof would mean that you could dunk your wheel into the after at __meter depth. Our wheel is rain resistant so there is no issues riding it across low puddles or rain. 

We are not asking for waterproof, but weather proof.  In Similar way as a car or mc and cycle can withstand weather conditions. 

I don't need to submerge it I just need to be sure it will not at any point damages the wheel riding in all weather like medium rain.

My KS16X got rain damages after 20min in light rain less than 2.5mm/H rain. If you are building a high end commuter wheel for street bumps it must be able to commute every day. The solution to my damaged KS16X that KS suggested, was to soak the connect in silicone. Not the most greaceful solution. And it does not make next service easier. So you need to make these things in a smarter way.

[WaveCut]

@Jack King Song

From this Kuji video spoiler i noticed, that the clearance between the tire and protective wing is very small, are you planning to make it spacier? It will be the problem for off-road users, if not.

[Eucenduro]

6 hours ago, xorbe said:

If those are the 21700 5000mAh 10A cells, then 3p should sustain 74*3*10 = 2220W and probably much higher momentary peak.

If the 7.275A cells, 1615W sustained.  The LG 5000mAh cells I see are actually rated 3.63V nominal (72.6V total) ...

I don't know how many cells are in parallel for this wheel.

1110Wh is a really specific number.  4p would be something very odd like 3750mAh * 4*20 * 3.7V = 1110Wh

You need 4p for this wheel. 3p is not enought degradate and dangerous. Why they put 3p f***... I dont understand.

You need 4p 18650

Like Panasonic 3.6 x 4 x 74= 1065 for example.

This 3p battery Will be a Big problem on this wheel, we'll ser it. 

[Espen R]

1 hour ago, WaveCut said:

@Jack King Song

From this Kuji video spoiler i noticed, that the clearance between the tire and protective wing is very small, are you planning to make it spacier? It will be the problem for off-road users, if not.

I agree, but I doubt any maker of EUC’s really have had off-roading in mind when they design their wheels. To be honest, I don’t think they understand how EUC’s can be used or what potential they could have as an all-purpose fun machine with only minor design changes. The weatherproofing and strength of the cases are at best questionable and the lack of easy access panels for service and faster tire/tube changes is a fairly clear indication that the manufactures haven’t focused on off-road or more extreme use at all.

Last year I tested a few different tires on my 18XL, and every time some screw-hold broke, and don’t get me started on the screws themselves! I managed to glue some of the holds back, but the next time I need a tire change I’ll probably have to buy a new inner case. A friend of mine who dabbles in 3D design using CAD, couldn’t believe his eyes when he saw what I had to go through to change the tire. Making something that will break, so that we have to buy expensive replacements, is understandable, it’s a logical consequence of marked economy, but wasting my time with a million screws because of poor and stupid design is just maddening.

[WI_Hedgehog]

1 hour ago, Espen R said:

I don’t think they understand how EUC’s can be used or what potential they could have as an all-purpose fun machine with only minor design changes. The weatherproofing and strength of the cases are at best questionable and the lack of easy access panels for service and faster tire/tube changes is a fairly clear indication that the manufactures haven’t focused on off-road or more extreme use at all.

Last year I tested a few different tires on my 18XL, and every time some screw-hold broke, and don’t get me started on the screws themselves! ..... Making something that will break, so that we have to buy expensive replacements, is understandable, it’s a logical consequence of marked economy, but wasting my time with a million screws because of poor and stupid design is just maddening.

It's a consequence of "cheap, unskilled labor." Chinese companies typically don't have degreed engineers or the like working on perfecting designs, which is why adding a few basic things to EUC main board functionality is challenging. Culturally, they are excellent at copying someone else's work, but not Research & Development. If you give them finished design improvements they can directly implement, and doing so doesn't cost too much, they quite possibly will. (You're like an unpaid, annoying consultant.) 

From the RC hobby we found building electronics that manage more than about 60V becomes challenging, over 80 starts to become unreliable. Gotway led the way with 100V, which is quite surprising given how hard it is to make reliable circuitry in a small form factor. (Even insulating the motor windings efficiently becomes a challenge.) There is a power-to-weight ratio advantage with higher voltages, mainly because the current (and heat) is reduced, but at some point the voltage coupled with vibration becomes a set of competing design issues.

 

[B08AH]

Why did they name it S, when it is clearly a C

it also looks like angry Pacman eating orange thingy

Edited April 9, 2020 by B08AH

[gon2fast]

I found some additional information on teh "MyKingSong" site. Sorry if this has already been shared.

https://www.mykingsong.com/king-song-s18-electric-unicycle

[Phong Vu]

9 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Theyll choose a shock that fits the majority of riders and leave it up to the rest of us ocd asshats, to spend a mint on what we want. Now you KNOW we;ll love going shock shopping.

You know how this gonna go... People comparing the wheel original cost now.
But this "pimp my unicycle" will become much pricier real soon.

 

[RagingGrandpa]

4 hours ago, Eucenduro said:

You need 4p for this wheel. 3p is not enought degradate and dangerous. Why they put 3p f***... I dont understand.

You need 4p 18650

Like Panasonic 3.6 x 4 x 74= 1065 for example.

This 3p battery Will be a Big problem on this wheel, we'll see it. 

The usual EUC 21700 (LG M50T) max rated current per cell is 7.3A.
The usual Gotway 18650 (Sanyo GA) max rated current per cell is 10A.

Practically speaking, the 21700 4p 100V pack (MSP) is better in every way, than an similar 18650 6p 84V pack (MSX). 10% mass increase gives you ~20% energy increase.

But it's a good point- S18 3p 84V is clearly capable of putting the LG cells outside their rated maximums. Time for Samsung 50E perhaps...

Edited April 9, 2020 by RagingGrandpa

[Espen R]

First you allegedly steal the technology, and then you release a wheel that has a smaller battery pack than the competition but the same price?? I could understand it if this stealing thing was true and this release was your way of saying; sorry Inmotion, you can have all the customers, but if you really thought a 1100wh battery was what the market wanted, then I’m a bit baffled. I believe there are more 18XL’s around than 18L’s, but I might be wrong.

Battery sizes isn’t just about range, it is also a safety feature. I wouldn’t exactly feel comfortable riding trails on an S18 with anything below 50%.

[fryman]

13 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think it comes down to basic geometry. That's all you're going to get on this design. Shocks take valuable real estate

I have to ask. I need a long range wheel

[FreeRide]

13 hours ago, Eucenduro said:

Hi everybody!!! )) 

I have a question about kss18 battery. Let's see if anyone can help me and tell me if i'm right:

5000mah LG

3p battery support 1.200w motor and they put 2200

15000mah

15a X 74v = 1110 wh ks s18

I don't see a question.

 

[Eucenduro]

19 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

I don't see a question.

 

The numbers is the question

[Heyzeus]

9 hours ago, Unventor said:

We are not asking for waterproof, but weather proof.  In Similar way as a car or mc and cycle can withstand weather conditions. 

I don't need to submerge it I just need to be sure it will not at any point damages the wheel riding in all weather like medium rain.

This, I don't understand why this isn't a top priority for them.  I would think it would be especially popular in China and the other Asian countries(or the uk or france or seattle etc) that get a lot of rain from light to heavy.

No one wants to go scuba diving with their wheel, I imagine most don't even want to ride their wheel in heavy rain but they want to know that if they go out riding on a cloudy day and it's not raining or is just misting or a light drizzle and then it does start raining hard it's not going to ruin their wheel or cause a cut out and injure them.

I've had days where I wanted to ride my wheel to class but I didn't because it was cloudy and it looked like it might rain, never did rain and then I'm just like "man I did all that biking just for my heart, lame"

 

I'm hardly the early adopter type so I wouldn't be on one of these wheels until second generation at the earliest, but my ACM2 does the job until I get a wheel that's properly water resistant with solid specs.  A wheel that was waterproof enough that I could toss it in the shower or spray it down with the hose without shorting out or rusting parts is the ideal.  Charge me $200 extra, it's worth it to me.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Heyzeus

[mike_bike_kite]

No single wheel can't meet everyone' needs. There either isn't enough space to accommodate suspension and huge batteries. If you want range then go for a KS18XL, KS16X , Nikola, MSX or even a Monster. If your main priority is rain protection then it's probably not best going for one with huge scoops cut out the sides to show off the insides (the V11 is "probably" better as is the V10F or KS18). If it's speed then there's always the MSX, 100v or Nikola. If you want cutting edge tech that looks like a Bimota (or Ducati) then it's the S18. Simples.

PS I thought it never rained in California anyway?

[Espen R]

45 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

No single wheel can't meet everyone' needs. There either isn't enough space to accommodate suspension and huge batteries. If you want range then go for a KS18XL, KS16X , Nikola, MSX or even a Monster. If your main priority is rain protection then it's probably not best going for one with huge scoops cut out the sides to show off the insides (the V11 is "probably" better as is the V10F or KS18). If it's speed then there's always the MSX, 100v or Nikola. If you want cutting edge tech that looks like a Bimota (or Ducati) then it's the S18. Simples.

PS I thought it never rained in California anyway?

I struggle to see how this could be a wheel for anyone. If you want a wheel with suspension, why would you choose this over the V11? You have a 16S, and it has more range and will be safer to ride (and perhaps even faster??) as the battery percentage drops than the S18. When you have specs like the S18, but only can deliver on those specs for the first 15-20 mins after a full charge, you’ve not created the best happy customer platform.

Battery size isn’t just range, it’s also safety feature and acts as guarantee that your wheel will perform to its specs for X amount of time. If they don’t have the skills to design a wheel with a safe and reasonable battery size, then I wonder what they do all day at Kingsong. Slightly taller and wider, and you could easily fit a 1800wh battery pack, and then I think they would sell more wheels. A lot more. I would buy one:)

Edited April 9, 2020 by Espen R

[RagingGrandpa]

9 minutes ago, Espen R said:

If you want a wheel with suspension, why would you choose this over the V11?

• Lighter
• Easier to mount lean pads (critical!)
• Styling (subjective)
• $100 cheaper (depends on vendor)