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Everything posted by mrelwood

  1. It almost is, but the applied force to tilt the pedals is a more precise description for the throttle. If you push the front of the pedals down when the wheel is facing a wall, the actual angle of the pedals may even be neutral but the wheel still tries to accelerate to counteract the force being applied. Only if the riding mode is extremely soft (like softer than 16S ”soft” soft), does the actual change in pedal angle somewhat relate to the amount of current the wheel applies to the motor. An infinitely hard riding mode works just like the equal and opposite force the ground applies on your feet when you stand (or jump up and down). It doesn’t require for the ground to move to apply the opposite force. You can’t make the ground to apply more force than you do, since it wouldn’t be a balanced system anymore. An EUC that applies more or less force than what is required to keep the wheel upright isn’t a self-balancing vehicle, and it doesn’t try to stay upright like EUCs do. Not quite. No matter how you calibrate the neutral position on an EUC, the wheel only accelerates if you apply a force to tilt the pedals. But to get the pedals to level you need to apply exactly the same force to tilt the wheel forward than you did when the pedals were calibrated flat! There’s no ”already”. No. The effort is what tilts the wheel forward and accelerates. You can’t accelerate a self-balancing vehicle without leaning. It wouldn’t be a self-balancing vehicle. And it would be extremely hard to stay upright with one. Again, yes you do. Various aspects affect how easy the rider feels riding up a hill to be. But nothing can change the fact that all EUCs accelerate only as a response to user input. True.
  2. Understanding, observing and explaining physics are all different and unique skills for everybody.
  3. Mike preferred a tilt in the opposite direction, forward. Aneta prefers a tilt backwards.
  4. Not executing the calibration while riding, but riding with the tilted calibration.
  5. Two persons of random skillsets on the opposite side of the globe explaining with a few phrases how they physically feel while executing a complicated physics phenomena... What could go wrong! Either the other (or both) has misunderstood something in the preparation of the test, or one of you just experiences the riding situation differently. Quite simple really.
  6. I do have a language barrier to cope with, but to me what you have explained sounds clear. Did I understand wrong: 1: Flat calibration, not moving. 2: Tilt calibration, not moving. 3a: Tilt calibration during an incline. 3b: Tilt calibration during acceleration on flat ground. If this is the case, I suggest you try the same with a hard riding mode. The result should be quite different.
  7. If the stain was in anyway related to the batteries, I’m certain it would be located very differently. It might be remains of a threadlocker, grease or such. I wouldn’t worry at all.
  8. Isn’t this sentence contradictory to your theory in the first place? That the added leverage and torque would be introduced by the pedals being located further forward from the axle when calibrated to a backwards tilt. If the pedals stay flat, you haven’t really tested the theory you proposed, have you? If the theory was just that ”it would be easier for Aneta to...”, then cool, but the explanation still doesn’t hold water. There could be many other reasons for that. Like the calibration just compensating for a softer riding mode, or you naturally standing more forward when the pedals are angled back (I do too), etc.
  9. Yes, exactly! Good to know it has an actual name in English, I’ll try to remember that. It indeed works against common sense, and I don’t understand why it works that way. I just know that it does...
  10. All EUCs either accelerate as fast as you command them, or fail to do so and you crash. The speed of the acceleration is not what you are interested in, but how much effort it takes to accelerate. It depends on so many variables that it’s impossible to write down as a number. Every single other EUC will require more effort, ie. a larger physical lean to accelerate as fast as you do on your Mten. You will not get the same experience from any other wheel, and hunting for it may actually limit you from choosing a wheel that would have other very favourable and worthy traits. As posted already above, every single new EUC will feel strange and wrong at first, and lack some traits you have on your current wheel. If you get yourself an MCM5 to get the Mten acceleration, you won’t get what you want, and then you’ll just have a small 14” wheel. Depending on your size a bit, I would absolutely go for a small 16” wheel, such as the Tesla. For a 210lbs/6’5” guy like me and the way and where I ride, 14” EUC is a joke, small 16” will do temporarely, large 16” might do, but 18” is where it’s currently at. When I got my MSX 18 months ago, I was extremely disappointed how much lean it required. It made the whole riding experience a lot more physical than on the 16S, and I didn’t expect or like that at all. But once I learned what the MSX brings me in terms of stability, off-road capability, power, speed and range, I was quickly all for it. If I had bought a wheel with a similiar acceleration than on the 16S, I’d have bought a Tesla, and gotten myself pretty much the same wheel but faster. Instead a new world opened up!
  11. This topic reminds me how much EUCs are like electronic cigarettes were 10 years ago. New tech that brings a a lot of joy and health benefits to a small group of people, cheaper and cleaner than the methods of old, and brings people together under a new hobby. And then they got popular enough. Look at where we are now: E-cigs are taxed as tobacco products, tank volume is limited to a third of what’s practical, almost all flavours are banned, e-liquid can only be sold in bottles smaller than an active user might use in a day, webshops are banned, media still spreads lies funded by the competing medical industry, and an e-cig shop is not even allowed to sell the exact same products that a grocery store next door is since it is ”sold for a different purpose”. It is our luck that the EUC takes commitment to learn. If it would become popular, even just in the eyes of politicians, the era of freedom we now enjoy is gone with an absolute certainty. Please let’s not poke the bear by demanding more rights, or telling how much fun we are having, or behaving badly in traffic. Of course the legistlation isn’t fair, but adults tend to learn that most things aren’t. The end will surely come at some point anyway, but let’s not make it too soon by ourselves. So let’s shut up and ride! (Nicely if anyone is nearby...)
  12. You can find a decent amount of past conversations on wobbles that might be worth a read since you are interested. Even if the wheel was manufactured perfectly straight and balanced, if you’d hastily push it forward on it’s own, it would wobble. A tubular tire has a tendency to try and keep upright as it rolls. There are several physics aspects why it does this: gyroscopic effect makes the sideways fall turn the tire to the direction of the fall, and smaller tire diameter at the edge does the same. So when a sideways force is applied, the tire compensates. As a result, the tire starts to fall the other way, and repeats the process. If the compensating force is strong, such as a person standing on the wheel, the wobble is faster. When all parameters are taken into account, there is a resonant frequency where the system wobbles easily. If the tire is deformed or unbalanced, it will cause the launching force by itself. But even without, any deformation in the road can function as an igniting force. As can rider input. Since the system has a tendency to wobble on it’s own, the rider must have a technique that dampens the wobble. This may be automatic, such as a suitable level of relaxedness. When the rider’s legs get tired, the muscles may even shake on their own. Even if they don’t, muscle control is imprecise and jerky, and feet are not relaxed. All these prevent the rider to function as an effective dampening force to the wobble, and may even amplify it. When braking, the rider needs to tense the leg and foot muscles, so it may amplify the wobble. Slowing down of course helps, but at faster speeds it may not be possible without the wobble causing a crash. A good way to kill a wobble is to carve. Since resonance is always symmetrical, any resonance can be killed effectively by making one side of the vibration travel to respond differently. Carving strongly does exactly this.
  13. Sure. It has worked fine on the previous Msupers. It will ride and especially turn differently though.
  14. Damn. I’ve crashed a lot on an EUC.
  15. It does indeed. For the winter a softer riding mode also does wonders for the same reasons. Doesn’t help much with slipping sideways though. Hmm. I don’t quite agree. I haven’t crashed since about 9000km ago, soon after which I got my MSX. Not pushing the envelope isn’t the reason for me. Although I’m not counting in failing on very hard technical spots where my speed is lower than walking speed, even if my butt touches the ground. That’s just tumblin’, not crashin’.
  16. Holy moly, that is the sexiest and most awesomest Z10 on the planet! Absolutely magnificent! Why did you choose a 130/60 though? While bigger is always better, that is a freaking 5” wide tire! I would’ve thought a 110 or 100 mm wide tire would’ve been an easier fit. How’s the gyro effect on that tire? Does it switch ”modes” as abruptly at 10mph?
  17. So the additional leverage comes only from the pedals swinging slightly forward relative to the axle when the wheel is tilted backwards? The phrase ”Already some torque arm” confused me. This was an idea worthy of a few measurements. On the 16S, tilting the wheel 5 degrees back moves the front edge of the pedals 8mm closer to the tire front. On the MSX it moves 6mm. For comparison, my extended pedals surpass the front of the original pedals by 30mm on the 16S and 60mm on the MSX. I don’t think the small gain from the backwards calibration would counteract the cons. The original pedals on both of my wheels reach further forward from the axle when the wheel is horizontal vs vertical. Roughly 1cm on the 16S, and roughly 7-8cm on the MSX. The most forward position is somewhere in between, quickly guessing 40 degrees on the 16S and 30 degrees on the MSX. Maybe try those angles for a calibration?
  18. While that doesn’t yet give credit for experience in high voltage li-ion battery handling (the same phrase could be used to describe me), that is somewhat a relief to hear. At least the soldering should be good then. If you go on with the plan, I’d still ask for him to be sure to take enough steps to make the battery pack water tight.
  19. How come? Torque arm in relation to what exactly? The pedals will just stay in a position that requires more ankle flex, and hence give the feeling of less available pedal grip. Even a steady tilt-back works for reducing acceleration and speed, since it makes it harder to push for more. A fixed position of any angle doesn’t give an additional torque arm, the wheel will react to user input just the same. If anything, a very slight tilt forward might be beneficial instead, unless riding with a softer mode since it makes it easier to fall off the front.
  20. Do I see problems with your plan? Too many to count. Replacing cells or building a battery pack from scratch is a lot of work, and has countless danger scenarios and fire hazards, since you are working with live high discharge li-ion cells. Are you 200% sure your skills and experience warrant for doing something like this? If you were familiar with the dangers I’d think you’d have mentioned something about your experience level. You did not, so I can only assume. Are your soldering and spot welding skills at a level that you’d trust your life in them even after the wheel has been shaking and tumbling for a few thousand miles? ”If I replace them all”... If you replace one cell to a different type, you replace all of them. I can’t comment wether the cells you mention would be even suitable for an EUC. Besides discharge rates at least the internal resistance is a crucial factor. DIY battery packs are not cost conscious if you put even a slightest value for the countless hours it’ll take to make them.
  21. Big thanks to The Team to include me as a board member! I don’t see an issue in the calculation for what it calculates: foot positioning / amount of lean in a smooth incline with limitless grip. What the test with Petra and Simon would fail to do is cut down two major variables, so the actual results could be very different. Variables being grip and brains. In the entertaining Mike & Simon & MSX & 18XL video a primary concern turned out to be the lack of grip on a bumpy grass hillock for both Mike and Simon. How does the rider’s weight weigh the scales regarding grip? For a more precise test, Petra and Simon should share the same brain. Otherwise the result could reflect anything in their differing riding styles. I suggest we load Petra up with 40kg of additional weight attached tightly and evenly at the front and back of her body. 2 backpacks, 20 liters of milk/water/glögg in each would do nicely! I could also make the same tests, but as I’d be losing quite a lot of weight in between, it might take enough time for my riding style / wheel model / laws of physics / me being alive to significantly change...
  22. I ride very steep inclines and declines regularly on the MSX, and I’m certain I wouldn’t manage them without my DIY extended pedals and/or power pads. The control and stability is increased by a huge amount. The 16X is surely a different animal than the MSX, but for the few short tests I was able to accelerate uphill better on my MSX. If I was to get familiar on the 16X... I don’t know. Reading this made me think how do I do it on steep inclines with roots and rocks to slalom through. Indeed, I have my hands horizontally to the sides to give me counterweight for twisting. My knees are taking support from the power pads, which also makes tilting impractical. I never actually analyzed how I do it! A local rider liked the feel of my MSX enough to install actual shoe-sized pedal plates on his 18XL as well. It felt absolutely fantastic! Something to consider if you like to ride steeps. Just imagine what some additional 1.5” would let you achieve!
  23. The very same Chao Yang H-5167 is actually what 16X comes with now. It’s a great tire. If you haven’t already, I’d give the soft mode a proper chance on the Nikola. After a few thousand kms on medium mode on my MSX, I finally decided to give soft mode a proper chance and left it on for a few hundred kms. The way it can be used to assist in braking and accelerating made me want to learn to overcome it’s weakness in riding up very steep inclines on loose soil.
  24. @mike_bike_kite, your determined and organized dedication to learning is admirable! And you got the hang of things quite quickly. Now it’s just about riding more and more and more. Your confidence, riding speed, and requirements will likely grow until you can no longer stand the V5F... @Mono, any wheel can be used by any rider of any weight, as long as it is used in a manner that respects the amount of available power. Riding peacefully at 10mph on flat ground has never been thought to be of an issue, but that’s not what most people purchase a wheel for. If Mike or anyone else of our weight and height keeps pushing a V5F or a V8 hard when going above 15mph, or keeps surfing the top speed tilt-back, or fails to avoid a big enough pothole near the top speed, the wheel is very quickly overpowered. I rode my first year with a Lhotz and I was very happy with it for many months, despite having a top speed well beyond it’s power. I fell once and jumped off twice due to overpowering the Lhotz during what I now consider a medium braking. My older brother overleaned the Lhotz at the start of an acceleration and hurt his unprotected knee pretty bad. Never rode again. I never got the sense of being near the limits on my 16S, despite pushing it many times harder on many occasions. The danger becomes apparent if the rider’s confidence allows to comfortably ride at the wheel’s top speed. Which almost always happens with these lower powered wheels.
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