King Song S18 Discussion

[.....]

woah, careful there. I wouldnt assume they would outright 'lie'. It is very possible that they DID do the testing and paid for certs. I wouldnt see it being good for a company to put in print something like that, if they couldnt substantiate it. Lack of certs doesnt mean it isnt up to the spec, just means they didnt pay for it. IN the end, I bet were gna have to run these wheels thru the rain and puddles to really know. Of course the first adopters will be the ones to give us facts, as I'd trust them over any certifications. I'll run the sks18 thru ShanesPlanet certification. My newbie ass will drop it down the mountain, run it directly into curbs, play in the rain and run thru water. If it dies... 'No cert for you"....   I offer this service for free. In fact, I'll conduct the testing on my dime. As for dust ingress... one round of me cleaning with my air compressor, will test this just fine. I dunno if my drz400sm is ip certified, but it passed MY cert testing, as its old, and cleaned up/works fine.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

woah, careful there. I wouldnt assume they would outright 'lie'. It is very possible that they DID do the testing and paid for certs. I wouldnt see it being good for a company to put in print something like that, if they couldnt substantiate it. Lack of certs doesnt mean it isnt up to the spec, just means they didnt pay for it. IN the end, I bet were gna have to run these wheels thru the rain and puddles to really know. Of course the first adopters will be the ones to give us facts, as I'd trust them over any certifications.

well gotway also lists their mcm5 as ip certified.. what do you think are the chances of them paying for that lmao.. its true they could have.. maybe thats reflected in the original msrp.. i said its probably a lie because i really struggle to imagine them paying for that certification when they can obviously do in house testing themselves without having to spend a dime on certifications... however, it would be very easy for them to produce this proof of certification to put our minds to rest

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

27 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Interesting. that kinda hurts my feelings, as when the sks18 arrives, I'll have 2 wheels and 2 ks chargers. NOW im finding that i'll only be able to double charger the 18L, but not the sks18? If using 2 chargers IS hurting the batteries or shortening the life, I have no problems keeping it at 5amp. Tho I WANT to take advantage of double chargers, i surely won't risk my batteries. Above all, I am VERY concerned of battery life and maintenance. SO far, I've only used 1 charger, keep it topped off, and never charge  it after being  recently in use.

 

The batteries have no problem with it, the charging socket, cables and control board are the problem 

[null]

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

they also list a range of 120 km haha.. whos gonna stop em..

Knowing them the range will be about the same as the S18, both of which are too low for my needs.

[.....]

4 minutes ago, buell47 said:

The batteries have no problem with it, the charging socket, cables and control board are the problem 

hmm.. thats not good to hear. I aint afraid of rewiring and replacing components, but if the control board itelf cant handle it... not much left to do.   Oh well, I guess my range will be limited to whatever TWO 18" wheels(and a baby mten) can do in a day. Sounds like a challenge... get my 42yr old ass to outlast 3 wheels in one session.. Challenge after that... outlast 3 wheels on rough terrain on one session..

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

Just now, null said:

Knowing them the range will be about the same as the S18, both of which are too low for my needs.

i concur.. i like to be able to ride 80 km without having to worry.. i do use these for commuting which is why i have multiple wheels and smaller wheels, but generally.. if i get on to ride for fun i really dont want to get off for a long time and theyre realistic 50 km range which is generous imo if you dont love being throttled.. it would just leave me yearning for more lol

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

hmm.. thats not good to hear. I aint afraid of rewiring and replacing components, but if the control board itelf cant handle it... not much left to do.   Oh well, I guess my range will be limited to whatever TWO 18" wheels can do in a day. Sounds like a challenge... get my 42yr old ass to outlast 2 wheels in one session.. Challenge after that... outlast 2 wheels on rough terrain on one session..

this is why i want a 2400 wh+ monster lol (i am undecided about the aftermarket mods though.... have already seen one go up in smoke) i want to be on until my feet and back ache which is well over 100 kms lol

[null]

Just now, Rywokast said:

i concur.. i like to be able to ride 80 km without having to worry.. i do use these for commuting which is why i have multiple wheels and smaller wheels, but generally.. if i get on to ride for fun i really dont want to get off for a long time and theyre realistic 50 km range which is generous imo if you dont love being throttled.. it would just leave me yearning for more lol

Same, I have the 16S for a quick trip in the city, but even the range of the 18XL get short when on a week-end joyride.

[.....]

We need to lobby the battery manufacturers to come up with something better. For now, size and weight for a set amount of useable power, seems to be at a standstill. 50lbs is my cutoff limit. I'm not quite willing to compromise what its gna take, to have a wheel that goes twice as far as current offerings. Once they come out with new battery tech tho... I'll adopt one of those too.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rywokast]

Just now, null said:

Same, I have the 16S for a quick trip in the city, but even the range of the 18XL get short when on a week-end joyride.

ditto.. 16S is the perfect all rounder for the city imo.. the size, weight, trolley, decent speed.. its hard to beat for a well rounded short trip city wheel.. and yea i definitely prefer to not let my battery ever get below 25% only if doing a range test or i have no choice.. so yes every time i step off my 18XL im like i want moooooooooore haha

[Dave Wood]

@Rywokast your seriously comparing range (that has so many viables) to a IP rating which is legality binding (thats why its not cheap).....A IP rating could be used to claim  warranty for example if it brakes from weather damage, a IP rating covers the customer, certification isnt something you can just make up  like range.. and BTW EVERY company exaggerates range on all pevs across the board Euc companys, eboards companys, escooters ect they all do it

Edited April 9, 2020 by Dave Wood

[.....]

2 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

ditto.. 16S is the perfect all rounder for the city imo.. the size, weight, trolley, decent speed.. its hard to beat for a well rounded short trip city wheel.. and yea i definitely prefer to not let my battery ever get below 25% only if doing a range test or i have no choice.. so yes every time i step off my 18XL im like i want moooooooooore haha

gas powered euc ftw...

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

We need to lobby the battery manufacturers to come up with something better. For now, size and weight for a set amount of useable power, seems to be at a standstill.

graphene batteries cannot come to market fast enough!! i cant wait until theyre mainstream.. its not an end all but they have significant advantages over traditional lithium batteries until lithium is replaced entirely by 

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

@Rywokast your seriously comparing range (that has so many viables) to a IP rating which is legality binding (thats why its not cheap).....A IP rating could be used to claim  warranty for example if it brakes from weather damage, a IP rating covers the customer, certification isnt something you can just make up  like range

thats true, i was just saying to get the point across that no manufacturer is always telling the truth... but i for one have never seen an IP certificate for any euc... so where is it, if they could show it there would be no debate.. im just saying, i wouldnt put it past them... and no, not necessarily.. my phone has a very strong ip certification, yet it cannot be used for any warranty purposes

4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

gas powered euc ftw...

haha noooooo i dont want to pay for gas thats why i gave up driving xD well that and costly insurance

Edited April 9, 2020 by Rywokast

[.....]

11 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

graphene batteries cannot come to market fast enough!! i cant wait until theyre mainstream.. its not an end all but they have significant advantages over traditional lithium batteries until lithium is replaced entirely by 

something like THIS, is what its gna take, to get me invest in a wheel that surpasses my 18L. With current tech,  my needs and willingness to accept compromises, lands squarely around the ks18 specs. I dont see new battery tech arriving for a while, so I feel okay about investing in new suspension tech. Oh dont be mistaken, if a wheel hasnt killed me by then, I'll be investing in the newer gen of longer range, faster speeds, lighter weight EUCs, once they arrive. But hell, I like my new toys and Im not waiting around for that day. Good news, if batteries are at a standstill, its time everyone begins investing and focusing on other aspects. These other aspects will carry thru to the new batteries once they arrive.

As for gasoline. Costs are relative. We pay for electric and we also spend dearly for batteries that dont live long. Perhaps electric is cheaper, but you cant deny that it would be UBER easy to top off the wheel at ANY gas station and go 90 miles on one gallon. Not starting a debate on this, just playful musings. LP gas, ethanol fuels, its a HUGE discussion that ive not the brains to engage in. Its just fun to kinda wonder tho..  Your blatant NO.. about  gas, illustrates the fact that we all have opinions on what we are willing to accept in the interests of range and speed. If you KNEW a gas euc could go 90 miles at 50mph on one gallon, would you STILL not want it, as having to pay for gas is a compromise you dont want to make? The small compromise of paying an electric bill, obviously seems worth it for our current offerings, no?

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Unventor]

29 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

not true it states a IP rating of IP55 on their specs sheet where as there nothing on the KS-S18

Inmotion posted similar rating för V10 series and V8. BUT they are not certified they are estimates only. 

The same thing for the Ninebot Z10. 

There is a huge difference to estimates and certification. And it comes into play with warranty claims. 

Now if this is taken seriously it will impact on designs choices. So getting estimates is a start. But first when it is certified you can trust it. 

But putting in the specs shows to some level that they know people are interested in this. For some this might not be an issue. For me it is the outmost important for me to pay top price for a new wheel that I plan to replace my car. If I can't trust my wheel because of light rain then it isn't a commuters tool but a toy. This is how important it is to me. 

[Heyzeus]

1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said:

If this (my post) gets 20 likes, I'll post a video without music and every time the wheel compresses I'll overlay a duck sound . Any other ideas?

Truck air brakes or maybe that goat from the Taylor Swift parody video

[WI_Hedgehog]

14 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Theyll choose a shock that fits the majority of riders and leave it up to the rest of us ocd asshats, to spend a mint on what we want.

Corrected: King Song will source a cheap Chinese knock-off of a top-end FOX shock which fits the majority of Chinese riders and leave it up to the physically larger Europeans to find a shock that supports their weight. The Americans in the U.S., overweight as they are, will be lucky if they don't break what they consider low-quality Chinese suspension castings after spending a mint on a real FOX shock.

[.....]

13 minutes ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

Corrected: King Song will source a cheap Chinese knock-off of a top-end FOX shock which fits the majority of Chinese riders and leave it up to the physically larger Europeans to find a shock that supports their weight. The Americans in the U.S., overweight as they are, will be lucky if they don't break what they consider low-quality Chinese suspension castings after spending a mint on a real FOX shock.

feeels so good to be a 135lb full grown american. Yeah, I also wondered about the materials they will choose on the shock castings. They obviously are outsourcing a shock to make it cheaper, so I have little faith that the stock shock will be great. It wouldnt matter tho, I'd look to upgrade the shock just by my own stupid nature. I DO hope they dont cheap out too much on the other castings, as I dont want to have to hire a cnc operator to cut me some quality to replace. Im familiar with cheap as shit castings and its very common to see(cant even weld that shit to fix it). I for one would rather pay a little more and see a company take the initiative to use quality metals and forged or cut parts, over castings. But hell, people already complain about prices and most dont understand how a $2 increase in production = a $20 increase at market. FOr the direct linkage, I'd almost prefer quality steel over aluminum alloys.(calling all aftermarket cnc operators...get ready!) Steel weighs more, but it doesnt suffer impact cracking, like most of this aluminum shit you see, even on quality pieces. TBH, just them being able to entertain price drops, makes me worry. If production costs a lot from using quality materials, you WONT be able to lower the price. I fully expected the sks18 to come out nearer 3k than 2k.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Dave Wood]

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Inmotion posted similar rating för V10 series and V8. BUT they are not certified they are estimates only. 

The same thing for the Ninebot Z10. 

There is a huge difference to estimates and certification. And it comes into play with warranty claims. 

Now if this is taken seriously it will impact on designs choices. So getting estimates is a start. But first when it is certified you can trust it. 

But putting in the specs shows to some level that they know people are interested in this. For some this might not be an issue. For me it is the outmost important for me to pay top price for a new wheel that I plan to replace my car. If I can't trust my wheel because of light rain then it isn't a commuters tool but a toy. This is how important it is to me. 

it's still there in black and white so to speak so legally the onus is on the manufacturer. They made a promise that their product could perform a certain way.

[Will R]

I wonder how the range will be impacted by the suspension seen on this new generation of wheels. From U-strides latest video it seems the MSP (ridden properly) also gets very poor range in comparison to last year's gen of wheels due to its beefy motor and operating voltage. I was all ready to drop 2k on a 2200wh MSP but just the sheer aesthetic value of the S18 makes that feel too potentially regrettable... WHY does it have to have such a miniscule battery and handicapped top speed?! Even in the teaser video of it riding around those streets you can hear the beeps tapping the rider on the shoulder and saying 'Hey, I've noticed you're having fun right now. You better be careful, because if you have slightly more fun or god forbid get lost in the moment I'm going to betray you and throw you to the floor. In the name of safety, of course."

Gotway's statement saying there will be no more wheels this year really worries me. A 20" wheel would have nicely cushioned the same bumps many people will now ride over with their V11s or S18s. I hope they pull through. 

[Espen R]

@Jack King Song

Suspension looks nice, really impressive, and the design is awesome. How safe would it be to ride down a flight of stairs like @Kuji Rolls with 40 or 30% battery?

1100wh is a very strange choice on a 2200W wheel, and the people who decided that doesn’t understand much about EUC’s. A large battery pack = safe riding, and I thought Kingsong had realized that after the issues with the 18L.

I went from a Onewheel to a 16S, and I realized fast that I needed something that suited my height and weight to ride safely and to ride the trails I wanted to ride. At the moment I could choose between the Monster, MSX and 18L. I really enjoyed the quality and the trolley handle on the 16S (even though it is to short for me), so Kingsong was my first choice, but I also knew the 18L couldn’t preform with the power and safety I needed below 50%, so I ended up almost buying the MSX. The rumours of the 18XL reached me just in time. It had the specs and features I needed, and I pre-ordered it as fast as I could. It has been the best purchase I’ve ever done, and I can ride safely down to almost 30%. That was 2018, now it’s 2020. 1000wh wasn’t safe in combination with a 2000W motor then, so it’s Santa-Claus-is-real-weird in 2020.  

[WI_Hedgehog]

23 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

I read 90mm & 100mm of suspension travel, but saw about 5cm of shock travel in the KS video (which maxed it out), and the tire has something like 5cm max. compression before hitting the rim, so a total suspension travel (since the tire is part of the suspension) of about 10cm.

22 hours ago, xorbe said:

No way, they will be crucified if they try to count tire flex as suspension.  Every wheel on earth will suddenly claim to have a suspension.  (I mean, technically they do, but it's not what people expect.)

Did you watch the video? I only saw 5cm (or less) of active suspension travel. That puts the other 5cm on the tire, which I also saw. However, I think the total looked more like 4cm + 4cm = 8cm--maybe they're counting the rider's knees too!  (LOL)
 

 

[Dave Wood]

1 minute ago, Will R said:

I wonder how the range will be impacted by the suspension seen on this new generation of wheels. From U-strides latest video it seems the MSP (ridden properly) also gets very poor range in comparison to last year's gen of wheels due to its beefy motor and operating voltage. I was all ready to drop 2k on a 2200wh MSP but just the sheer aesthetic value of the S18 makes that feel too potentially regrettable... WHY does it have to have such a miniscule battery and handicapped top speed?! Even in the teaser video of it riding around those streets you can hear the beeps tapping the rider on the shoulder and saying 'Hey, I've noticed you're having fun right now. You better be careful, because if you have slightly more fun or god forbid get lost in the moment I'm going to betray you and throw you to the floor. In the name of safety, of course."

Gotway's statement saying there will be no more wheels this year really worries me. A 20" wheel would have nicely cushioned the same bumps many people will now ride over with their V11s or S18s. I hope they pull through. 

i saw that video about the MSP range it's really shocked me tbh, i was considering it my next wheel but not now... ill be sticking to 84v

[.....]

Suspension geometry is such that you cant read the travel by looking at the shock itself. I dont know how much travel I'm seeing, but yes it looks like very little AT THE SHOCK.  The ammount of travel is more, due to the way it is set up. 4cm/2"/50mm at the shock can easily translate in to much more at the wheel, when you factor in the completed geometry. Total travel is probably close to what they claim, tho the way it is used is a very finicky ordeal of settings on top of that. Using ALL 100mm of travel would be from airborne to bottoming out. I'd imagine that most of the time, a person would use half the travel. If you set it up to use full travel on smaller impacts, you would lose too much dampening for larger impacts. Its all a balance. I say all this with no REAL knowledge of how the sks18 is going to manage it, but im betting ALL wheels that have suspension, are going to be similar. I mean hell, we're only talking 4" to work with. I routinely bottom out the HUGE suspension travel on my supermoto. Does this mean its not working. BULLSHIT, I have spent too much time getting it just right. It is set to do the best it can on most things I do. NO SETTINGS can make my pro shock setup with massive travel, work at 100% across big and small bumps, big ass jumps and washboards at hi speed. Even top price suspensions make compromises. THIS is why suspension is not a laypersons sport. Suspension is complex and thats why it takes big bucks, lots of trial and error and fat pockets to get a suspension to work to it best. Lest we forget, every rider rides differently with different body weights.

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet