KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Unventor]

On 9/3/2019 at 10:54 AM, Kens said:

Yes that question is stupid, I agree with you. When I go to the dealership I will not asked which one is the least safe or which one is the slowest or which one is the ugliest. If I want to buy a track car I will ask which one can I turn traction control off. Is like an Aventador but with traction control, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, lane change warning and auto start stop ALWAYS ON all the time.

With that said, if you want high safety margin why not asked Kingsong to throttle from 85% besting Inmotion? Higher safety margin is better right? Don't forget there's also a drawback with tilt back like it could make you lose balance when hitting a bump below 50% battery or will not allow you to accelerate fast enough to avoid hazard. Both are dangerous. The earlier the throttling the more often it can happen and can cause accidents.

I know I can always choose other wheel. I'm just mad the one that I want is nerfed so bad and only Kingsong can do something about it. It's like Kingsong just made a mona lisa but just decided to put googely eyes on it.. Or this:

Yes Kingsong, I'm still mad. At least give us choice to lower it.

 

Hotfix fw: The Danish way... Tuborg. 

Note: You do not want to be at the button of the charge capacity aka empty glass. 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Unventor

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Garrie Lim said:

I’m still holding on to V1.05 on my KS16X. 

 

Could someone answer definitely once and for all what happens when a V1.06 KS16X reaches that magical 76V?

 

 

 

 

Depending on load it starts to throttling and resist if it gets too much. I will be updating mine today. But as I wrote earlier it is like not to effect me that much as I am anything but aggressive when riding, nor do I ride at wheel top speed/performance either.

So I actually view this as a help for me to not push the wheel so far I get in trouble, despite I am unlikely to do that ever. I do like the safety view KS is trying to make here. You can ride fast but you can't be too demanding when doing that. or you can ride aggressive but just not do it at the top part of the speed curve of the wheel.

 

[Chriull]

On 9/2/2019 at 9:18 PM, US69 said:

The speed throttling is implemented STARTING on 50%(74Volt) and then going down to 61Volt(0%) ...reaching 25kmh on 0%.

this means in theorie that 45kmh are reached at about 70-72Volt, 40kmh at 66-68, 35kmh at about 68-66Volt, 30kmh at 64-62Volt!

while i have to say anything under 66 is allready VERY empty and due to voltage drop no fun to drive!

Please Dont nail my on totally exakt numbers, as these are numbers under load....

A try of a graphical representation:

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, Chriull said:

A try of a graphical representation:

But the hole Idea is it is not linear and it depends on the conditions. So the curves you have will be adapted by rider weight, road decline/incline. and so on....it is much more complex than the simple graphs. 

[chrisjunlee]

4 minutes ago, Unventor said:

But the hole Idea is it is not linear and it depends on the conditions. So the curves you have will be adapted by rider weight, road decline/incline. and so on....it is much more complex than the simple graphs. 

Those factors translate into one simple “measurement”: voltage sag.

[Chriull]

25 minutes ago, Unventor said:

But the hole Idea is it is not linear and it depends on the conditions. So the curves you have will be adapted by rider weight, road decline/incline. and so on....it is much more complex than the simple graphs. 

From what is written here (btw - thanks for the collection of @Micheal Shen's and @US69's relevants posts here!) it is in my opinion not clear how it is to be understood.

If either:

- the tiltback speed reduction is linear to battery voltage, but as different burden situations (riders weight, inclines, acceleration, etc) by the voltage sag change the battery voltage this makes this whole behaviour non-linear.

- they made the speed reduction over battery voltage in some way non-linear.

Did not get a real hint to believe that the second possibility was implemented, but also no confirmation that they "stayed" with possibility one.

I just tend to stay with possibility one - that was how it was imlplemented till now with most (?all?) wheels and if KS would have "invented" something great and new they'd put this in the advertising machinery?!

But yes - it's guessing, and by scanning the last pages i've seen that i missed the announcement of a new firmware in the pipeline? ... so everthing is very likely to change again...

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, Tadas said:

It's not a fair comparison. We're riding on one wheel. The wheel always needs a reserve of power to maintain balance.

If I hit a pothole at high speed and fall forwards, the wheel needs huge power to catch up. Voltage drop is a real thing with the batteries.

 It’s an excellent example. I’m talking about changing what you advertised.   We have potholes everywhere here in Florida. Fortunately you can see them. 

[Mike Sacristan]

I wonder if KingSong has been a bit too accommodating.

Pre-batch version had flat pedals. Vibrations could be felt through the pedals.
Pedals were angled (good job). Tire was changed and vibration issue deemed resolved.
1.05 introduced a less aggressive pedal tilt back at speed.
1.06 introduced throttling to prevent over leaning at tilt back speed by keeping a power buffer for any given voltage.

I suspect that 1.06 was a response/fix to the change in 1.05 so that we don't have a bunch of people over leaning the wheel with soft tilt back.

A 1545Wh 84V wheel with a 2200 watt motor should be able to handle 50 kmh for as long and as low into the battery as the Nikola 84V.
If we look at the MSX:
5 beeps at 55 kmh at charged battery.
Decrease as battery goes down.
At 50% battery or 74V I get 5 beeps at 50 kmh.
If I dip into the voltage this will go down to 48 kmh, etc.
Nikola will be lower.

So the Gotway is beeping and the KingSong is tilting.
The Gotway will let you push past the beeping and the KingSong won't.
This is the same story as always.

If we are going to compare to the 18XL then it's an 18" that has to spin the tire less times to reach those speeds compared to a 16".

This is new territory for KingSong and they hurriedly released a wheel to not get slaughtered by the Nikola.

I am enjoying my beta wheel though. Although I am afraid of the light tilt back and will have to do some practice with it to see how well I feel it.
As it is now (running 1.05) I am afraid of doing too hard an acceleration to top speed and smacking into a barely noticeable tilt back.

I want a zippy wheel that feels like a 16" but speeds like an 18" and that's 84V but as fast as a 100V and I want it to be safe when I want it too and not safe when I don't want it too and I would also like a large order of fries with that. 

[fryman]

Wonder if the new 2200W motor would require a 100V system to get the throttling lower or hopefully just a FW fix?

[chrisjunlee]

25 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

This is new territory for KingSong and they hurriedly released a wheel to not get slaughtered by the Nikola.

Oh they're so far behind the Nikola's performance, I don't think they're even aiming to match the Nikola's specs. 

I think it was more of not missing out on summer, aka peak sell time.

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

Oh they're so far behind the Nikola's performance, I don't think they're even aiming to match the Nikola's specs. 

I think it was more of not missing out on summer, aka peak sell time.

Lol

 Trying to start a fire?  Besides I own both and disagree with you vehemently. 

[HarpMudd]

17 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Before the latest firmware update I had grinding at ultra low speed’s going back-and-forth. I thought I posted the video here.  I’ll post it here. After the firmware update it doesn’t do it anymore. 

Holy crap, that sounds like a pet pig or a branch that's caught up inside your wheel! I've never heard that sound while trollying or at low speeds and I'm still on 1.05.

[chrisjunlee]

22 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Lol Trying to start a fire?  Besides I own both and disagree with you vehemently. 

Do you have the 100V Plus?

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Do you have the 100V Plus?

Yup. And the 16X with CX tire 

The list of wheels I own are in my avatar  

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Patton250

[Patton250]

17 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Holy crap, that sounds like a pet pig or a branch that's caught up inside your wheel! I've never heard that sound while trollying or at low speeds and I'm still on 1.05.

Lol I know right. Fortunately 1.06 got rid of that noise. 

[Afeez Kay]

This has to be one of the longest thread on this forum.. Carry on all .. don't mind me 

Patiently waiting for my Nik Plus 21700 and KS16X.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[ir_fuel]

19 hours ago, Pingouin said:

Hi guys,

@chrisjunlee
I've tested a friends Nikola plus to compare with KS16X (fw1.06), I used "dragracer" app to see how fast both EUCs reaches different set speeds, here are my personal results :

Nikola Plus :

20kph = 1.9s / 30kph = 2.8s / 40 kph = 4.2s / 50 kph = 5.7s

KS16X :

20kph = 1.7s / 30kph = 2.5s / 40 kph = 4.1s / 50 kph = 6.1s

My feeling on both EUC's is that KS accelerates faster, but I am having more trouble reaching top speed on the KS16X because of tilt back, I don't feel as comfortable around 50kph with the KS while the Nikola can pass it with ease ! Actually I've put more miles on the Nikola, I am a little less used to the 16X. I accelerated on flat surface with 90-100% battery as fast as I could.
Both are very powerful EUCs and I think they are both excellent, Nikola has a more "smooth" initial feeling like riding on a magic carpet, the Kingsong is a little more "rough" but still very smooth.
I feel that at low and medium speeds (from 0 to 30kph) 16X is more nimble, at higher speeds it's very similar. Of course Nikola has a much higher top speed.
Regarding the 1.06 firmware of the KS16X, I changed my mind on it, it's awful because I only get about 40kph at 74V now. I hope they will fix it in 1.07 firmware.

Sorry, but measuring sub 2-seconds accelerations with a phone app?

That's never going to be accurate. Your phone does GPS sampling at 1Hz. That's 1 sample per second, including the lack of GPS accuracy. How will this ever give a meaningful result where you can compare 1.9s vs 1.7s. or 5.7 vs 6.1.

If you don't have at least 10Hz sampling with a high precision active GPS antenna, the results are worthless.

 

[ir_fuel]

21 hours ago, Nathan Gosamo said:

Is this wheel fine as my only wheel ?

Yes

21 hours ago, Nathan Gosamo said:

I have an electric skateboard for shorter trips, to get groceries etc..

If you live in Belgium, I hope it's an all terrain board  

[Slashebeest]

Today I did a 30km ride, left with 80%battery.

After 8km I hit tiltback: max speed 44km/h, road was flat and in good condition and tailwind.

But what I hate the most, unlike my alarm(48kph) and tiltback(50kph) settings, which gives me enough time to react before even hitting tiltback.

With this new "safety-feature", you get a warning and almost instantly followed by tiltback 

I genuinely hope they undo this or give us the option to turn it off.

[stephen]

26 minutes ago, Slashebeest said:

After 8km I hit tiltback: max speed 44km/h, road was flat and in good condition and tailwind

Why is it tilting you back at 44kmh it should be 50kmh at the battery level

Edited September 4, 2019 by stephen

[meepmeepmayer]

Some 16X-unrelated posts have been moved here:

[AtlasP]

On 9/4/2019 at 1:49 AM, Tadas said:

I am struggling to find any benefit to 18XL... 18XL probably has better range, but with the huge battery packs, I don't care about range.

Have you not been paying attention? Not only does the 18XL have better range, but it stays at max speed for a much larger portion of that range (down to 25% battery) compared to the latest firmware on the 16X which is now throttling super-early (as early as 50% battery or some claiming as early as 60%). Also the 18XL's thinner tire and larger diameter should theoretically be more stable/smoother at higher speeds on good road surfaces and might have less gyro effect when turning.

• 16X -- better acceleration, slightly less stable at high speeds and top speed quickly drops with battery
• 18XL -- better for cruising longer distances at high speeds all the way down to 25% battery

Edited September 5, 2019 by AtlasP

[Garrie Lim]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Have you not been paying attention? Not only does the 18XL have better range, but it stays at max speed for a much larger portion of that range compared to the latest firmware on the 16X which is now throttling super-early. Also the 18XL's thinner tire and larger diameter should theoretically be more stable/smoother at higher speeds on good road surfaces and might have less gyro effect when turning.

• 16X -- better acceleration
• 18XL -- better for cruising longer distances at high speeds

The best wheel for you is always the one that suits your needs the most. 

[Micheal Shen]

Motor losing power? Pedal will be soft, is there anyone can tell me how to avoid this issue?

If your weight is less than 65kg, the possibility of motor losing power is extremely low. So what about 80kg / 100kg / 120kg? If we open buffer and speed limit voltage setting to users, will users take the responsibility of the damage caused by motor losing power when they set wrong buffer and speed limit voltage? Or KINGSONG should set the suitable buffer and speed limit voltage?

Btw, the speed limit only happen in 40km/h to 50km/h, battery level from 50%~70%.  If you accelerate normally from 40 to 50, this protection will not be activated often. If you accelerate aggressively from 40 to 50, this protection will be activated frequently .

If you want to add the possibility of motor losing power, please email to support@szkingsong.com. We can give you test firmware, but you need to know the risk first and you will take the responsibility of the damage caused by the increasing possibility of motor losing power, In V1.06, we set 10km/h buffer and motor max speed limit 50km/h at 74V(50-10=40km/h).

Is there anyone want to set less buffer and low speed limit voltage? Please kindly email to support@szkingsong.com, and please do not mislead the new riders who want to enjoy safe riding Kingsong Electric Unicycles and Scooters.

In Kingsong team, Safety is the biggest point than all.
If you prefer high risk than more safety, Kingsong wheel may be your second or third choice.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Micheal Shen

[chrisjunlee]

16 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Sorry, but measuring sub 2-seconds accelerations with a phone app?

That's never going to be accurate. Your phone does GPS sampling at 1Hz. That's 1 sample per second, including the lack of GPS accuracy. How will this ever give a meaningful result where you can compare 1.9s vs 1.7s. or 5.7 vs 6.1.

If you don't have at least 10Hz sampling with a high precision active GPS antenna, the results are worthless.

Be nice. He went through a lot of trouble in an earnest effort to contribute.