KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[stephen]

13 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

This is incorrect. I clocked it at 24 mph with a GPS at 40% battery before I got the verbal warning.

People seem to taking numbers and deflating them.

Did you see my chart from euc world ,,, wheel log 

How much do you weigh?

Edited September 5, 2019 by stephen

[Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

There's more to this, what are they hiding? if it doesn't change they have found something wrong maybe in the firmware or hardware 🤔

Right. The new motor is incompatible with the current battery. When battery is below 70%, a fast acceleration provokes a huge drop in battery voltage. Dangerous! The lower battery capacity, the most severe voltage drop. Just monitor your wheel variables when driving. It is not safe. This is the only explanation I figure out to introduce the "safety tiltback" when battery is not full. Otherwise, if you drive fast, accelerate, and voltage decrease, the motor can not properly control/stabilise undesirable situations. They realised a few days ago with the photo of "hand in blood" using firmware v1.05? And proposed the conservative v1.06???

[Micheal Shen]

4 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

No, I've tested 1.06 and don't find the warnings I get at 24 mph @ 40% annoying because I don't tend to push it above 25 mph generally at full power.

I mean ultimately you are arguing about a few miles per hour, the difference between say 28 and 24, - giving up 4 mph for a safety margin is a no brainer.   Hell even if it it was 20 mph, I would not find it an issue as a trade off for safety.    20 mph is still more than enough to get seriously hurt, and frankly I rather have the power reserve for hitting an unseen pot hole and staying upright than risking a break or worse... That seems a fair trade off for me. 
 

It depend on your weight. buffer=battery output power - load consumption(more heavier, more load consumption)

[Gaz Bon]

Some are talking in MPH and others KPH 

BUT ALL mentioning throttling to 25

So that is a big difference 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Gaz Bon

[Mike Paolini]

2 hours ago, stephen said:

Did you see my chart from euc world ,,, wheel log 

How much do you weigh?

220 pounds.

 

[Micheal Shen]

9 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

220 pounds.

 

Do you notice the speed on APP?

[Garrie Lim]

The first KS16X at Jewel, Changi Airport, Singapore.

 

Have you visited Jewel yet?

[Mike Paolini]

1 hour ago, Micheal Shen said:

Do you notice the speed on APP?

The app seems off.  I tend you use GPS tracking.

I take it from your response, this is not a speed I should be achieving?

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mike Paolini

[RoadRunner]

12 hours ago, stephen said:

for 40-50% of the battery it would be a waste of money

Yeah and this is when you charge it to 100%, i charge my wheels mostly on 80% just for long rides on 100%; so i would have even less fun before throttling starts. 

But luckily i stayed at FW 1.05. so i can still have fun because it didn’t throw me off the last 1000km and i bet it won’t for the next 1000km.

[Tadas]

According to Kingsong posts the speed throttling seems to depend on voltage drop during load.

Took me whole day to make this graph, each point is a tiltback event. I don't think anyone else has done such extensive test.

Just to be clear on the numbers..

Idle at 76 V, that is  around 50%. Driving just from wind resistance the voltage drops to 72 V. Get tiltback at 40 km/h = 25 mph reported speed.

Speed gets reduced further as the battery depletes.

There is an additional problem that the wheel is reporting higher speed than GPS, so the actual speed is even lower. Maybe it's just me, this depends on tire pressure, I am riding with a lower pressure (=wheel radius is smaller).

[stephen]

4 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

220 pounds.

 

Thx mike im 200lbs I'll do more testing

 

5 hours ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

Right. The new motor is incompatible with the current battery. When battery is below 70%, a fast acceleration provokes a huge drop in battery voltage. Dangerous! The lower battery capacity, the most severe voltage drop. Just monitor your wheel variables when driving. It is not safe. This is the only explanation I figure out to introduce the "safety tiltback" when battery is not full. Otherwise, if you drive fast, accelerate, and voltage decrease, the motor can not properly control/stabilise undesirable situations. They realised a few days ago with the photo of "hand in blood" using firmware v1.05? And proposed the conservative v1.06???

It would be nice for an explanation for the harsh limitations other than just say saftey and then we wouldn't presume .

1.05 has been good firmware for you?

2 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Yeah and this is when you charge it to 100%, i charge my wheels mostly on 80% just for long rides on 100%; so i would have even less fun before throttling starts. 

Good point👍

 

25 minutes ago, Tadas said:

Took me whole day to make this graph, each point is a tiltback event. I don't think anyone else has done such extensive test

I think eveyone appreciates the time it took it's a well detailed graph ,and to everyone elses input though all these forums we have a good community and try to resolve many issues 

Thanks 👍 

[stephen]

Update

So I've been speaking to kingsong and they are sending me a test firmware ,

 I want to  test the new throttling cause i presume that's what they've done and not emailed me saying tell me when it cuts out on you😂😂 I'm sure they are keeping there saftey margins i will let you know how i get on 

For the more experienced riders who just need that little bit more and know the limitations on any wheel   power/ voltage/speed /weight/terain etc a new throttling will serve everyone's desire be it intermediate or experience, we are never going to irradicate the people out there who want to push the limits to the very top till it fails of any wheel and give euc a bad rep 

We just want an amazing euc with good spec 2200w etc for all levels of riding and still keep in the safe margin ofc , for those who say they will never do them speeds your fine 👍 for those who need that little bit more your desire will be also fulfilled 👍 (everyone's happy 😊) for those who want to still ride this wheel or any other wheel past tiltback and warnings👎,, don't do it,,

Also been speaking to someone who are in talks with kingsong  and there's a newer firmware been looked at maybe it's the one they are sending me but I'm still sure there's a safer margin just an acceptable one 

I'm a little bit more happy with my purchase and maybe put some minds at rest including mine 😊 glad they are looking into it though

Thanks 

[Flying W]

@stephen looking forward to your testing! I'm happy Kingsong is working on this and I really hope it is an acceptable solution (or works into one).

I know this thread kind of turned into a safety vs risk discussion. I'm my humble opinion safety isnt what this os all about since there are multiple wheels doing what this wheel can do (if they take the chains off) and those wheels are not dropping people on their face. 

I'm hoping kingsong saw a bloody hand, and then read about the overlean that happened (I dont remember has handle on here) from the guy that went to pass a car and was already in the upper 20s (mph). Their knee jerk reaction to this was to gimp the wheel. 

If I remember correctly both of these incidents happened 1st time wheel owners, and neither blamed the wheel. 

I was riding at 24 on half battery on my mcm5. Its a 3p battery pack so voltage drop is horrible. When it beeps I back off a tiny bit but I've hit large bumps while on the beep and it's been fine. Doesnt mean I'd lay into it like a dragster to get from 20 to 24mph as that could be bad. A new rider feeling froggy might, but I dont think this wheel should be designed to prevent that situation at the expense of people who know better as it is not priced nor marketed as an entry level wheel. 

I think there is a void in the entry level space and that is going to cause people to buy high end wheels as their 1st. Short of hoping everyone does their research I dont have a good way to prevent new riders from over powering their wheels. 

I learned on a 132wh wheel. You could overlean by simply leaning forward durring a sneeze on that wheel but it gave me a good lesson on being cautious.  

It's almost 2am and I can feel a case of the rambles coming so I'm going to stop. 

A big THANK YOU to not only Kingsong for looking at ways to fix this but also to everyone who helped keep this issue alive so they would take action. The experiences riders who ride more leisurely won't be negatively effected by less throttling and the riders who feel like they got hoodwinked on a purchase may be made to smile again!

[Slashebeest]

I did a 40km tour and at the moment I'm definitely not happy with my 16x.

I've had more tiltbacks on this tour than I had during my 900km with my 16b.

 

Left with 85% battery: max speed I could achieve was 44kph.

and at 50%batt, max speed was +-36kph.

A week ago I was still hitting 48kph at 50%, not once did it dip or whatsoever.

 

During my ride, there's only one thing I could think about, watch out for the tiltback.

 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, stephen said:

Update

So I've been speaking to kingsong and they are sending me a test firmware ,

 I want to  test the new throttling cause i presume that's what they've done and not emailed me saying tell me when it cuts out on you😂😂 I'm sure they are keeping there saftey margins i will let you know how i get on 

 

Also been speaking to someone who are in talks with kingsong  and there's a newer firmware been looked at maybe it's the one they are sending me but I'm still sure there's a safer margin just an acceptable one 

I'm a little bit more happy with my purchase and maybe put some minds at rest including mine 😊 glad they are looking into it though

Thank you for putting affords into this Stephen. 

I am pretty sure this is going to be some iterations before we get this spot on.  I would however remind people back to the post of @US69 that was the first communication of the changes coming/going on already.  He also foreseen that they (aka KS) will need to put more work into this and fine-tune this. 

I just upgraded to FW1.06 As My max speed so far is 35 kmh so I am not getting hit by this as much. 

I do like that Kingsong are listing and they are utilizing people on the outside to help getting this to a level where people can enjoy their wheel and where it is still a safe product. I also like that @Micheal Shen were very clear about if you want speed then KS is not supposed to be your first choice, maybe not even second choice. 

I am getting more and more used to the sensation of the KS16X so I did go faster to work today, but my speed record up until til morning is 30kmh, today 35kmh. that was on the edge of my comfort zone. That is also why I have no problem with FW1.06. I might find an issues later....but right now we are getting police crank down on escooter riders that are speeding, running red lights, going 2 on one escooter....so going fast is a bad idea imho as EUC speed limit is 20kmh. 

A TV station sat up a camera at a light crossing for 1 hour, they cought 2x as many on escooters running red light  (more than 50) in that hour compared to cycles. And more than 20 double ridding. That was on national news (TV4) with police commenting on this. I am fully aware things might be different in other countries. But I rather that KS show they have a safety concern so we might at some point get a legal speed raise. This thing is a lot bigger than "what I want" and "what I think"  and "I can decide myself" no matter if we like this or not. 

[Rehab1]

KS 16X Modified Mudguard

 

 

 

[stephen]

18 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I also like that @Micheal Shen were very clear about if you want speed then KS is not supposed to be your first choice, maybe not even second choice. 

That's true that's why I've got my MSX for speed ,some of us bought the ks16x knowing the limits was less than the msx ,and at 31mph down to 25% battery was perfect for me for a second not so fast wheel until they changed it , at least I'm glad they are looking into it and willing to let others test it for them , they have also requested my weight (200lbs) not your lightest or heaviest rider either , 

 

27 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I just upgraded to FW1.06 As My max speed so far is 35 kmh so I am not getting hit by this as much

But you are hitting them and you will do even more and more  it would be nice to have the choice ,

 

29 minutes ago, Unventor said:

right now we are getting police crank down on escooter riders that are speeding, running red lights, going 2 on one escooter....so going fast is a bad idea imho as EUC speed limit is 20kmh

you can still set alarms and tiltback where you want 👍

 

30 minutes ago, Unventor said:

But I rather that KS show they have a safety concern so we might at some point get a legal speed raise.

I'm all for saftey tbh, just because the speed raised it doesn't mean you have to do it ,,,i don't , but it's nice to have it there when needed and i think kingsong know they have gone over the top with the limits , they have produced an excellent wheel😊👍

 

Thanks for the post just thought I'd put my thoughts at side of some of your valid points thanks 👍

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

KS 16X Modified Mudguard

 

 

 

Omg that's crazy ,lol at everyone's face as you pass them and turn around to look 😀👍. The green in the eyes 👍

[Rehab1]

1 minute ago, stephen said:

Omg that's crazy ,lol at everyone's face as you pass them and turn around to look 😀👍. The green in the eyes 👍

I take some footage today. 

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Slashebeest said:

During my ride, there's only one thing I could think about, watch out for the tiltback.

Yes it does ruin your pleasure ride i was constantly looking at my pebble watch so i was ready for the tiltback , it also puts your saftey at risk as I'd rather watch where i was going rather than watch my watch 😀

[HarpMudd]

37 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

KS 16X Modified Mudguard

 

 

 

Make sure you play some KISS as you’re cruising around! Maybe hashtag #kissarmy on social media and see if you can get Gene to acknowledge it! Lol

[Rehab1]

20 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Make sure you play some KISS as you’re cruising around! Maybe hashtag #kissarmy on social media and see if you can get Gene to acknowledge it! Lol

Worth a try although the last time I received a personal response from a rock band was Two Live Crew in the 90s. 

[HarpMudd]

Just now, Rehab1 said:

Worth a try although the last time I received a personal response from a rock band was Two Live Crew in the 90s. 

Ha you should try playing Two Live Crew from your 16X! Maybe you can offend some folks! 😛

[Slashebeest]

48 minutes ago, stephen said:

Yes it does ruin your pleasure ride i was constantly looking at my pebble watch so i was ready for the tiltback , it also puts your saftey at risk as I'd rather watch where i was going rather than watch my watch 😀

I've been mailing too with Kingsong, wanted to know my weight as well 

[Blueblade]

24 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Ha you should try playing Two Live Crew from your 16X! Maybe you can offend some folks! 😛

Now that's an image! Some guy on one wheel, with a crazy tongue-sticking-out face on the front, blasting "me so horny" as he rides by lol