KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Planemo]

2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Be nice. He went through a lot of trouble in an earnest effort to contribute.

I also thought that the data was obtained using g force over time, no gps needed. I could be wrong though.

[Pingouin]

@Micheal Shen
I agree with you about safety, however there a few things about 1.06 firmware I've noted.

If you compare it to 1.13 firmware of the KS18XL, the safety buffer starts around 25% battery which is already much more acceptable. Why is it that this safety buffer starts at 50-70% on KS16X now ? Is the KS16X so much less capable than the KS18XL ? I would think not.
Another thing is you say that this safety will activate only if you accelerate roughtly, but I've tried to reach the max speed as slowly as I could (maybe going from 30 to 38 in more than 10s) and this safety would still activate, I really think you should listen to your customers and make a less agressive buffer or review the algorithm of the 1.06 firmware because for now, from my testing, it doesn't matter how slowly you accelerate, it's like a speed limiting however you ride it.
I would recommend you giving the KS16X the same safety as the KS18XL which has already proven to be very safe (ask those who tested it, @Marty Backe @eddiemoy .. )
@Planemo
I don't know what the app uses but it demandes to activate GPS. I can't really tell if the results I obtained are accurate, but nevertheless I think it's better than nothing.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Pingouin

[Slashebeest]

Same here, I've tried several times to achieve top speed as slowly as possible.

 

Why did kingsong implemented this in the first place ? 

And why does the 18xl doesn't need this kind of buffer ?

It's not like the internet is flooded with 16x crashes.

 

[Micheal Shen]

59 minutes ago, Slashebeest said:

Same here, I've tried several times to achieve top speed as slowly as possible.

 

Why did kingsong implemented this in the first place ? 

And why does the 18xl doesn't need this kind of buffer ?

It's not like the internet is flooded with 16x crashes.

 

Last month, some users asked us to set more buffer to avoid motor losing power.

This month, some users ask us to leave less buffer to avoid pedal tilt back when accelerate aggressively from 40km/h to 50km/h.

Okay, if we open buffer setting to users, then users will try the best to reach max power and less buffer. If someone hurt bcz of those settings, they will blame Kingsong, this is defect wheel.

Engineers need to consider all users' basic demand, like safe riding. No one products can make all users happy. If have, this products must be money,

[stephen]

16 minutes ago, Micheal Shen said:

Last month, some users asked us to set more buffer to avoid motor losing power.

This month, some users ask us to leave less buffer to avoid pedal tilt back when accelerate aggressively from 40km/h to 50km/h.

Okay, if we open buffer setting to users, then users will try the best to reach max power and less buffer. If someone hurt bcz of those settings, they will blame Kingsong, this is defect wheel.

Engineers need to consider all users' basic demand, like safe riding. No one products can make all users happy. If have, this products must be money,

I just think the buffer is set to early 50-70% is a bit extreme when the wheel is capable of allot more , it took me ages to decide which wheel to buy and the 25% limit was one of the factors i liked , I'm sure I'd of thought more if this update was from day one it just seems a bit extreme to me , i think kingsong will lose sales over this for more experienced riders anyway ,, btw i do like the wheel  

Edited September 5, 2019 by stephen

[mrelwood]

As demonstrated by @stephen, it’s not just about the current behaviour, but that the original performance is hindered, and even without a warning. That is a sure way to spread sour apples.

Airwheel did the same with the A3 three years ago. The option to increase the top speed from 15 to 17km/h (comfy riding speed 13.5/15.5km/h) was removed from the app in an update without warning or even mentioning it in the update contents. Luckily I upgraded my iPad first, so I’m still running the 4 year old app on my phone.

And I just realized that due to changes in iOS, despite still having the old .ipa on my computer, I may not be able to install the old app in a newer phone I was planning on purchasing. Crap.

[RoadRunner]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

If you want to add the possibility of motor losing power, please email to support@szkingsong.com. We can give you test firmware, but you need to know the risk first and you will take the responsibility of the damage caused by the increasing possibility of motor losing power, In V1.06, we set 10km/h buffer and motor max speed limit 50km/h at 74V(50-10=40km/h)

Really? Well why wasn’t there any safety concern before 1.06? You needed weeks to test and push out FW 1.05 with no throttling that early and then one week later with 1.06 coming out there suddenly where safety concerns, hmmm. 

 And why are there no safety concerns on the XL, it’s also a kingsong wheel or no?

Before 1.06 we where crash test dummies anyways.

[stephen]

Look what i got wonder what it does

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, stephen said:

Look what i got wonder what it does

What??? Lol

[ir_fuel]

5 hours ago, Planemo said:

I also thought that the data was obtained using g force over time, no gps needed. I could be wrong though.

That's even worse.

[ir_fuel]

5 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Be nice. He went through a lot of trouble in an earnest effort to contribute.

What, be nice?

Nowhere did I insult him. I just pointed out the fact that the way this has been measured is highly inaccurate. 

If this is "not being nice", well, just go ahead and write anything you want here, and people will take it for the truth and base their choices on it.

 

[stephen]

17 minutes ago, stephen said:

Look what i got wonder what it does

Is this the app or firmware upgrade

[Patton250]

11 minutes ago, stephen said:

Is this the app or firmware upgrade

 It’s not firmware. I just checked.  And there is no app update at least not for Apple. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Patton250

[fryman]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Last month, some users asked us to set more buffer to avoid motor losing power.

This month, some users ask us to leave less buffer to avoid pedal tilt back when accelerate aggressively from 40km/h to 50km/h.

Okay, if we open buffer setting to users, then users will try the best to reach max power and less buffer. If someone hurt bcz of those settings, they will blame Kingsong, this is defect wheel.

Engineers need to consider all users' basic demand, like safe riding. No one products can make all users happy. If have, this products must be money,

@Micheal Shen  Everyone wants safety first. If the only way for the 16X to be safe is to throttle at 50% then it is a bad design. We have come to expect more from Kingsong with a minimum of 25% throttle and still be safe.

1. Is there a FW fix coming to throttle lower and still be safe?

[Adel]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Last month, some users asked us to set more buffer to avoid motor losing power.

This month, some users ask us to leave less buffer to avoid pedal tilt back when accelerate aggressively from 40km/h to 50km/h.

Okay, if we open buffer setting to users, then users will try the best to reach max power and less buffer. If someone hurt bcz of those settings, they will blame Kingsong, this is defect wheel.

Engineers need to consider all users' basic demand, like safe riding. No one products can make all users happy. If have, this products must be money,

@Micheal Shen of course you can make all users happy. The way you do it is you make available to the user the OPTION to chose different riding profiles thru the app which have different speed throttling characteristic. People who want maximum safety can select conservative profile which has largest buffer and most speed throttling, while majority of users would select intermediate profile with moderate speed throttling, and then experienced riders can select aggressive riding setting with minimal throttling.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Adel

[heldenhaft]

@Micheal Shen

Maybe you can include the weight of the driver into the app. This would allow the algorithm to be adjusted. If you're lying, then boom...

[RoadRunner]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Last month, some users asked us to set more buffer to avoid motor losing power.

This month, some users ask us to leave less buffer to avoid pedal tilt back when accelerate aggressively from 40km/h to 50km/h.

Okay, if we open buffer setting to users, then users will try the best to reach max power and less buffer. If someone hurt bcz of those settings, they will blame Kingsong, this is defect wheel.

Engineers need to consider all users' basic demand, like safe riding. No one products can make all users happy. If have, this products must be money,

Well i like riding at 38-43kmh and sometimes, if the streets are good, a little faster. 

So my reason to buy a powerful wheel with a big battery was besides range that i have like a 8-10kmh safety buffer.

On my 16C i was riding 28kmh, so only 2kmh buffer that wasn’t enough for me that’s why i sold it.

So if i charge my wheel to 80% which i do most of the time i only have the first 25% to enjoy higher speeds and the rest of the ride i am restricted to 40kmh and lower. 

Don’t like that. 

If come home from a big ride with my XL and i am on say 40% and there is a nice street coming i can still hit it for a last time that’s why i love my XL and i want to have the same on my 16X.

Not to much to ask for i think. 

Also you are saying that you make the safety buffers for new riders, well these new riders will be riding better in a matter of weeks or months and then what do they do buy gotway. 

And if you are concerned about new riders going to fast why did you change the 200km speed restrictions to 10km?

Sorry don’t get it.

 

[fryman]

9 minutes ago, Adel said:

@Micheal Shen of course you can make all users happy. The way you do it is you make available to the user the OPTION to chose different riding profiles thru the app which have different speed throttling characteristic. People who want maximum safety can select conservative profile which has largest buffer and most speed throttling, while majority of users would select intermediate profile with moderate speed throttling, and then experienced riders can select aggressive riding setting with minimal throttling.

 

The wheel should be safe for all riders regardless of their weight or riding style.

[ir_fuel]

2 minutes ago, fryman said:

The wheel should be safe for all riders regardless of their weight or riding style.

That unfortunately is impossible unless you limit the wheel to 12mph.

[fryman]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

That unfortunately is impossible unless you limit the wheel to 12mph.

All the other Kingsong wheels are.

[ir_fuel]

2 minutes ago, fryman said:

All the other Kingsong wheels are.

Pretty sure if you are 200lbs you can still faceplant with any other wheel.

[fryman]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

Pretty sure if you are 200lbs you can still faceplant with any other wheel.

Sure, if you ignore the tilt back or warning beeps.  My point is that the 16X should be safe with lower throttling and currently Kingsong is saying it is not.

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, fryman said:

Sure, if you ignore the tilt back or warning beeps.  My point is that the 16X should be safe with lower throttling and currently Kingsong is saying it is not.

Yeah I don't really get what's going on either.

[Tadas]

Just came back from riding v1.06. Logged all the tiltback events, here are the numbers after digging through Wheellog's log.

Kingsong reports higher speed compared to GPS, to get real speed I correct kingsong's speed by factor of 0.94.

 

KS16X v1.06 tiltbacks.ods

[RoadRunner]

Here’s another funny one for ya.

In the description of the new 1.06 FW wasn’t point 8. the one with the battery throttling?

Well it’s not there anymore. 

Must be magic or something  

Edited September 5, 2019 by RoadRunner