KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Harvey Pooka]

3 hours ago, Kens said:

@US69 Throttling at 50% is #1 DEAL BREAKER for me and majority of people from buying this wheel.

.

Not a deal breaker for me. Still willing to buy. Don't see it as a problem. In fact, I rather like the idea of a company starting with a high safety margin than a low one. I have never once bought a car where I went to the dealer and said, "Which car on your lot is the least safe? That's the one I want."

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Harvey Pooka said:

Not a deal breaker for me. Still willing to buy. Don't see it as a problem. In fact, I rather like the idea of a company starting with a high safety margin than a low one. I have never once bought a car where I went to the dealer and said, "Which car on your lot is the least safe? That's the one I want."

I am 200% on the same page. And I still see this is what you get as 1st batch buyer. 6 months from now KS will know better how much they can release the safety margin in the interest of high safety and performance going hand in hand. 

I have not done th fw 1.06 update yet, but I consider this more and more a smart move due to the wheel is so responsive as it is. 

[Kens]

3 hours ago, Harvey Pooka said:

Not a deal breaker for me. Still willing to buy. Don't see it as a problem. In fact, I rather like the idea of a company starting with a high safety margin than a low one. I have never once bought a car where I went to the dealer and said, "Which car on your lot is the least safe? That's the one I want."

Yes that question is stupid, I agree with you. When I go to the dealership I will not asked which one is the least safe or which one is the slowest or which one is the ugliest. If I want to buy a track car I will ask which one can I turn traction control off. Is like an Aventador but with traction control, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, lane change warning and auto start stop ALWAYS ON all the time.

With that said, if you want high safety margin why not asked Kingsong to throttle from 85% besting Inmotion? Higher safety margin is better right? Don't forget there's also a drawback with tilt back like it could make you lose balance when hitting a bump below 50% battery or will not allow you to accelerate fast enough to avoid hazard. Both are dangerous. The earlier the throttling the more often it can happen and can cause accidents.

I know I can always choose other wheel. I'm just mad the one that I want is nerfed so bad and only Kingsong can do something about it. It's like Kingsong just made a mona lisa but just decided to put googely eyes on it.. Or this:

Yes Kingsong, I'm still mad. At least give us choice to lower it.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Kens

[stephen]

20 minutes ago, Kens said:

Yes that question is stupid, I agree with you. When I go to the dealership I will not asked which one is the least safe or which one is the slowest or which one is the ugliest. If I want to buy a track car I will ask which one can I turn traction control off. Is like an Aventador but with traction control, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, lane change warning and auto start stop ALWAYS ON all the time.

With that said, if you want high safety margin why not asked Kingsong to throttle from 85% besting Inmotion? Higher safety margin is better right? Don't forget there's also a drawback with tilt back like it could make you lose balance when hitting a bump below 50% battery or will not allow you to accelerate fast enough to avoid hazard. Both are dangerous. The earlier the throttling the more often it can happen and can cause accidents.

I know I can always choose other wheel. I'm just mad the one that I want is nerfed so bad and only Kingsong can do something about it. It's like Kingsong just made a mona lisa but just decided to put googely eyes on it..

Yes Kingsong, I'm still mad. At least give us choice to lower it.

 

I think it's ok it's just too early at 50% 74v when it's capable of 50kmh down to 66v at least lower it to 70v before the restrictions kick in

I'll soon know when I receive wheel today . But im not liking that i don't know when the tiltback gunna kick in due to loaded voltage tiltback

Edited September 3, 2019 by stephen

[Micheal Shen]

24 minutes ago, Kens said:

Yes that question is stupid, I agree with you. When I go to the dealership I will not asked which one is the least safe or which one is the slowest or which one is the ugliest. If I want to buy a track car I will ask which one can I turn traction control off. Is like an Aventador but with traction control, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, lane change warning and auto start stop ALWAYS ON all the time.

With that said, if you want high safety margin why not asked Kingsong to throttle from 85% besting Inmotion? Higher safety margin is better right? Don't forget there's also a drawback with tilt back like it could make you lose balance when hitting a bump below 50% battery or will not allow you to accelerate fast enough to avoid hazard. Both are dangerous. The earlier the throttling the more often it can happen and can cause accidents.

I know I can always choose other wheel. I'm just mad the one that I want is nerfed so bad and only Kingsong can do something about it. It's like Kingsong just made a mona lisa but just decided to put googely eyes on it..

Yes Kingsong, I'm still mad. At least give us choice to lower it.

 

Your request, already feedback to our engineer, and if you want be a tester for new firmware, you can email to support@szkingsong.com. But we only accept 1 year and 2000km experienced riders.

[ir_fuel]

7 hours ago, Kens said:

@US69 Throttling at 50% is #1 DEAL BREAKER for me and majority of people from buying this wheel.

 

Maybe you should put the 'for me' also in bold, because for how I use the wheel it's not deal breaker. 

[Unventor]

12 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Maybe you should put the 'for me' also in bold, because for how I use the wheel it's not deal breaker. 

Add me to you list of a great way to word this. 200% on you view. 

If I wanted otherwise I had gone GW. I like the KS thoughts about their design and safety is. I am really happy so far. Still adjusting to how it behaves and fixing my ride style accordingly. 

NOTE: I had an odd style due to my bad knee. 

[ir_fuel]

45 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Add me to you list of a great way to word this. 200% on you view. 

If I wanted otherwise I had gone GW.

Same here. I would have gotten a MSX100V or something like that.

[Harvey Pooka]

3 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Maybe you should put the 'for me' also in bold, because for how I use the wheel it's not deal breaker. 

I posted my point specifically because I've noticed that both in this forum and on the kingsong facebook page that people are posting that the "majority" or "everyone" is upset and in rebellion against this change. I understand that some people are upset and they have been  quite vocal about it as is their right as customers. It just bugs me when people post as if their opinion is also mine. But that's my fault for not having put my opinion on the record.

@Kens My view isn't about where the safety margin is set. (I would be just as happy if they set throttling at 85% or 45%). My point was I rather a company have a philosophy of trying to think of safety as a primary concern over trying to just increase performance specs. They shouldn't be operating like tobacco companies without regard to the possible consequences to their consumers. This wheel is a new level of performance. More power. More responsiveness. They can't just go by the responses of early purchasers of the 16X who have had no problems riding as it was. Many seem to be very experienced, advanced or naturally good riders. But the next batch of upcoming purchasers may not be as experienced. I like the idea that they are thinking of them as well. I do like your idea of an owner controlled toggle or slider to set throttling options. Possibly have the option to reduce the margin of safety with experience, the way they use to with speed unlocking.

At the end of the day, this is a toy for me. (I know some people get upset when their wheels are referred to as toys. I think it is an age thing. I'm an old guy. I LOVE it when people refer to my EUC as a toy.) Toys should be designed with safety in mind. If I want a toy that could  kill me, I would buy a Chucky doll.

Finally, my posts aren't here to change anyone's mind. If someone is upset about the throttling, that's their right as a buyer. My posts are to let Kingsong know (I hope you are reading this) that there are customers (at least one)  who appreciates their thought process and to hopefully encourage them to keep it as a core value in their future designs and products. Keep setting higher safety margins and reduce them if they are too high. Better than low safety margins, wait for a bunch of injuries/deaths, then raise them.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Harvey Pooka

[Tadas]

10 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

What i really don‘t understand is why can my XL go 50kmh down to 25% and the much newer 16X with a more powerful motor can’t or won’t.

I have KS18XL and now 16X. The 16X seems to demand higher current from the battery, it would explain the need for higher speed throttling than KS18XL.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Tadas

[stephen]

I think people are pissed off because they pre-ordered or bought the 16x after some hard thinking which wheel to buy( kingsong or gotway)for the specs kingsong provided, and then to have that taken away is not good, i understand saftey but going from 25% throttling to 50% throttling is a bit extreme, at least meet in the middle unless kingsong are keeping some saftey issues from us who knows , it just seems a bit OTT 50%

[Unventor]

@Harvey Pooka this is one of the best posts done for along time you just posted imho.

It hits nails head on, on so many levels. This is exactly how posts used to be (or how read them back when I started) rather the hole tire change stampe discussions and as you write is about to happen about fw 1.06.

So please, you are not alone, you my +1 too. 

[Gustesta]

This is the tire everyone is looking for:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XCW8SCK?ref=myi_title_dp

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Gustesta said:

This is the tire everyone is looking for:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XCW8SCK?ref=myi_title_dp

Not me. I am perfectly happy with my 1st batch stock tire. Yes I am only on day 2 of my KS16X but I still love it. I just need to relearn my ridestyle to match the behaviour of KS16X (and in it tire configuration I have). 

[RoadRunner]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

if you want be a tester for new firmware

Well if you send me a test wheel, no problem. 

[Garrie Lim]

8 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Not me. I am perfectly happy with my 1st batch stock tire. Yes I am only on day 2 of my KS16X but I still love it. I just need to relearn my ridestyle to match the behaviour of KS16X (and in it tire configuration I have). 

I am enjoying my ks16X with 1st batch tire more and more. Riding more confidently and aggressively when I need to and want to. 

 

Tried the new tire today on my friend’s 16X, no gyro but I felt uncomfortable, probably because I was getting used to the 16x 1st tire. 

 

I am loving it more and more!

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

@Harvey Pooka this is one of the best posts done for along time you just posted imho.

It hits nails head on, on so many levels. This is exactly how posts used to be (or how read them back when I started) rather the hole tire change stampe discussions and as you write is about to happen about fw 1.06.

So please, you are not alone, you my +1 too. 

 So just out of curiosity if you bought a magnificent Mercedes-Benz, and they are magnificent, and it was advertised as 450 hp and then when you got it you noticed that it throttled back the horsepower significantly according to its GPS location. So in other words if you were in a 60 mph zone it would reduce the horsepower by 50%. Would that not severely anger you?  It’s false advertisement. Unless of course when Mercedes released the specs they told you of this. Well king song did not. That’s all we’re saying. In fact they seem to change the rules as we go. 

 Now keep this in mind I am saying this while I fully love the 16 X. It is by far my favorite wheel.  I think it rides significantly better then the Nikola Plus even with the CX tire.  So my criticism of king song is genuine and I believe reasonable  

Edited September 3, 2019 by Patton250

[Patton250]

26 minutes ago, Garrie Lim said:

I am enjoying my ks16X with 1st batch tire more and more. Riding more confidently and aggressively when I need to and want to. 

 

Tried the new tire today on my friend’s 16X, no gyro but I felt uncomfortable, probably because I was getting used to the 16x 1st tire. 

 

I am loving it more and more!

 I completely agree. I love the CX tire. What tire did your friends 16 X have on it?  Thanks for this post. I’d love to get more details on your feeling of the different tire especially what tire it was. 

[Garrie Lim]

36 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 I completely agree. I love the CX tire. What tire did your friends 16 X have on it?  Thanks for this post. I’d love to get more details on your feeling of the different tire especially what tire it was. 

I think it’s the same tire Eddie Moy installed recently

[Unventor]

21 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 So just out of curiosity if you bought a magnificent Mercedes-Benz, and they are magnificent, and it was advertised as 450 hp and then when you got it you noticed that it throttled back the horsepower significantly according to its GPS location. So in other words if you were in a 60 mph zone it would reduce the horsepower by 50%. Would that not severely anger you?  It’s false advertisement. Unless of course when Mercedes released the specs they told you of this. Well king song did not. That’s all we’re saying. In fact they seem to change the rules as we go. 

I do see your point I just have a few buts.... 

Where I like speed limit is 20kmh...so to me it does not matter... Eventually I will likely ride faster. But I never bought it to be GW-wannabe-speedmonster. I didn't buy it to be an get my misdirected aggression out of my system while I am in public traffic. Nor is I am massive land/range owner where I can do as I please. 

I bought a KS as they have safety high on the list.

I might very well be unique in this regard but still I have been very clear of why I like KS approach and not regard GW in what I precibe GW (I can be wrong on this point). 

Speed is not that important to enjoy a great product. And if you go back what @Micheal Shen said you can go fast but only if you don't do this aggressively. You can ride aggressive too just not as fast. 

If you look at most faceplant posted lately is when people got too aggressive or demardmore uphill or hit a groove or pot hole (not thinking brands here, but a few GW at very high speed). 

I would still think to adjust performance over maintaining "promised" specs are a much choice.

Had Kingsong not buckle in to the must do 50kmh demand, then you would not feel throttling as soon... 

I have not yet pushed my KS16X, it is still only my 2nd day on it. So updating fw might happen soon I might postpone it a bit. 

[Chili D]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

 

I think people are pissed off because they pre-ordered or bought the 16x after some hard thinking which wheel to buy( kingsong or gotway)for the specs kingsong provided, and then to have that taken away is not good

 

This point is my reaction. I was looking at this wheel, but it no longer fits into my riding style  and needs. 

 

Glad and I haven’t purchased yet.  

[HarpMudd]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Not me. I am perfectly happy with my 1st batch stock tire. Yes I am only on day 2 of my KS16X but I still love it. I just need to relearn my ridestyle to match the behaviour of KS16X (and in it tire configuration I have). 

I think the stock wheel on the 16X has helped me improve my riding abilities. It makes riding more interesting and fun. I never thought before how tire pattern/tread/rubber hardness would impact my ride until this debate. Each tire type has it's own strengths/weaknesses and can help or hurt you depending on the type of riding you most engage in. For me, the CX321 is pretty decent on the road and is very stable at speeds > 20mph. The outer tread is also fairly aggressive which has been a blast in the grass and off-road.

Edited September 3, 2019 by HarpMudd
grammar

[fryman]

1 hour ago, Tadas said:

I have KS18XL and now 16X. The 16X seems to demand higher current from the battery, it would explain the need for higher speed throttling than KS18XL.

I'm not sure enough testing was done on this new 2200W motor. SMH

[chrisjunlee]

2 minutes ago, fryman said:

I'm not sure enough testing was done on this new 2200W motor. SMH

It's 1st batch. No matter how much testing you do, there's a certain point you gotta release it. You're not going to catch all the bugs, it's just the way things are.

With that said, I love the 16X motor. It makes the 18XL feel anemic.

Next level up is the Nikola motor. But we all know Gotway is light-years ahead since performance is the main thing they focus on.

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

It's 1st batch. No matter how much testing you do, there's a certain point you gotta release it. You're not going to catch all the bugs, it's just the way things are.

With that said, I love the 16X motor. It makes the 18XL feel anemic.

Next level up is the Nikola motor. But we all know Gotway is light-years ahead since performance is the main thing they focus on.

I own, as you do, both the Nikola Plus and KS16X. IMO the 16X is quicker, more balanced and most importantly definitely more stable at higher speeds. So since the Nikola is the flagship wheel of Gotway (for now at least)  I don’t really see how you can say that it is “light-years” ahead.  I understand the Plus will go 40 mph but I can’t seem to get past 25 mph without the thing shaking all over the place.