KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Patton250]

35 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I don't know if it's your dog profile pic, but man you're the most chill, dgaf rider ever. You can even have a pedal missing and you would be like "oh, I got used to it after a mile, wtv" 😆.

Thanks man.  I have several things in my life that I take very seriously but Hobbies isn’t one of them. :-)  Notice I didn’t use the “T” word  lol

Hobbies are (to me at least) to enjoy. 

[CampDylan]

6 hours ago, Pingouin said:

I disabled the leds while riding

Lights; Is there an easy way to disable ALL lights (including headlight) while riding?  And of course the ability to toggle back & forth, lights on/lights off.

[eddiemoy]

7 hours ago, Pingouin said:

Hi guys, I've tested out the 1.06 firmware for you !

I was very worried after reading some posts about bugs in firmware updating, someone reported that the 1.06 made the pedals dip back & forth...I'm not sure if he calibrated the EUC again, but you MUST do it after every update, I tried to ride without calibrating after updating from 1.01 to 1.05 and it did dip forwards and backwards randomly.

I've tried low & high speeds (up to 45kph). It behaves no different than with the 1.05 firmware, I report that there is no oscillation or back & forth movement at high speeds, not even a little ! Besides that it did add some useful features, such as the possibility to select "low beam" light rather than "high beam" that used to blind upcoming trafic. Also in "auto light mode" it's by default in low beam.

Regarding the "25kph under 74v" that worried a buch of riders (me included), I'm happy to report that I've ridden it at 73.2V and top speed was more than 34kph ! I understand that the 25kph is just the minimal speed before the low battery tiltback, so don't worry about it.

The most important feature to me was the 88% power output alarm, that sounds just like the 3rd speed alarm (4 beeps). I think I may have heard it but not sure !
It also stopped the back red lights from blinking while charging (I must say that I disabled the leds while riding so not sure if it'll work if you keep them enabled, but before the update even when disabled, these lights still blinked while charging).

From my testing, it seems like the 1.06 is the 1.05 with new features and fixed some small bugs left (high speed oscillation, light bug).

Thanks, I just finally did the upgrade from 1.01 to 1.06.  After the upgrade, the wheel tilted all the way forward.  Had to do calibration.  Was great after.  Zero oscillation at speeds of 45kph.  So they fixed that.  Wheel is noticeably harsher at low speeds.  Kind of like the vibration you feel when trolleying. 

On a different note, I just got my CYT tire.  Will be swapping it out the CST for the CYT later and report back. 

I got a completely different tire than preproduction and the one everyone else is getting, shit!

Edited August 31, 2019 by eddiemoy

[RoadRunner]

Pimped my X a little. 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by RoadRunner

[eddiemoy]

Ok, just got done with tire change to CYT. I think I might have pinched the tube a little or loosen the valve stem.  Slow leak or something. I pumped it up to 20psi and went out side, tried to mount it and fell off.  Didn’t realize all the air was out.  Then I pumped it up again and the air stayed for my test run, 5 minutes.  Zero gyro.  Very familiar.  I LOVE IT.  I just have fix this slow leak.  Maybe some slime.  Wow is all I can say.  It rides so much better than the CST and light years better than the CX.  I’m going to order another one for the Nik+.  It corners so well, no new technique needed.  Just lean like I’m used to with the other KS wheels.  Anyone ordering the 16X now should have the CYT tire coming with it standard.  It was a little more difficult to put this tire on.  Side walls seem a lot stiffer.  Lucky I have the 16 tire irons. 

[RoadRunner]

21 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Wow is all I can say

Great news eddie, can’t wait to get mine.

[j00cantseeme]

33 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Ok, just got done with tire change to CYT. I think I might have pinched the tube a little or loosen the valve stem.  Slow leak or something. I pumped it up to 20psi and went out side, tried to mount it and fell off.  Didn’t realize all the air was out.  Then I pumped it up again and the air stayed for my test run, 5 minutes.  Zero gyro.  Very familiar.  I LOVE IT.  I just have fix this slow leak.  Maybe some slime.  Wow is all I can say.  It rides so much better than the CST and light years better than the CX.  I’m going to order another one for the Nik+.  It corners so well, no new technique needed.  Just lean like I’m used to with the other KS wheels.  Anyone ordering the 16X now should have the CYT tire coming with it standard.  It was a little more difficult to put this tire on.  Side walls seem a lot stiffer.  Lucky I have the 16 tire irons. 

 

Nice! Where can we buy the CYT? 

[eddiemoy]

Just now, j00cantseeme said:

Nice! Where can we buy the CYT? 

Someone here was offering it.  But I bought mine from amazon. I bought the last two.  

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

I got a completely different tire than preproduction and the one everyone else is getting, shit!

That H-5102 seems to be the default ChaoYang tire that most Ali sellers ship, no matter what is in the auction photos. It’s the factory installed tire on the MSX and 18XL as well. Otherwise a nice tire, but the grip on wet unpaved surfaces is bad.

51 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Someone here was offering it.

The ”community tire” that @Hibiki Mr.H so kindly bought and will ship for some of us is the H-5167. I’d expect it to grip much better when wet, and off road in general.

[eddiemoy]

31 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

That H-5102 seems to be the default ChaoYang tire that most Ali sellers ship, no matter what is in the auction photos. It’s the factory installed tire on the MSX and 18XL as well. Otherwise a nice tire, but the grip on wet unpaved surfaces is bad.

The ”community tire” that @Hibiki Mr.H so kindly bought and will ship for some of us is the H-5167. I’d expect it to grip much better when wet, and off road in general.

Did KS change the tire from Kenda?  That is what is on my 18L. Not sure about the grip.  I normally don’t ride when it is wet outside.  Plus I don’t do much off roading.  I’m strictly city roads rider.  

[Pingouin]

15 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

What is the “88% output power alarm”?

Hi, it's like the 80% power output alarm of the Gotways, it's to let you know that you're reaching max power, however it can be confused with the 3rd speed alarm as the beeping is the same.

16 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Thanks for this @Pingouin, altogether do you like and recommend this wheel?  

Compared to Nikola & MSX, I would say it depends. If you're looking for speed and reliability, MSX is the way to go because it has been out for a while, KS16X is still new we don't really know how it's going to hold. Some people are having issues also, I think it's not only firmware issues but maybe some 16X have other issues that can't be fixed by firmware, but not sure.
Regarding it's behavior, I do love this EUC, mine has been flawless and I love the way it handles and accelerates, plus it's super silent, even more than the MSX & Nikola from what I've tested ! Overall I would say it still has some flaws to it, but yes I can recommend it, but it depends what you're looking for.

10 hours ago, CampDylan said:

Lights; Is there an easy way to disable ALL lights (including headlight) while riding?  And of course the ability to toggle back & forth, lights on/lights off.

Yes there is, I disabled all lights, only the rear red lights do come on when I break. In the app you can close the led lights, however by default the headlight is in "auto" mode, that means that if the light sensor detects that it's dark, it's going to go on, you can disable it by pressing several times on the power button. You will be able to toggle it back by pressing the power button again ! (1.06 fw has different light mods : auto/full/low beam/high beam/off )
 

@eddiemoy I still use the original CX321 tire, I feel the gyro effect at high speed but at the same time it's still very agile, does the CYT tire really improve agility or does it simply make it feel like conventional EUCs ?

I have a question : do you know if the KS16X has SMART BMS ? Are the batteries the same as the KS18XL ?

Edited September 1, 2019 by Pingouin

[eddiemoy]

10 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

Hi, it's like the 80% power output alarm of the Gotways, it's to let you know that you're reaching max power, however it can be confused with the 3rd speed alarm as the beeping is the same.

Compared to Nikola & MSX, I would say it depends. If you're looking for speed and reliability, MSX is the way to go because it has been out for a while, KS16X is still new we don't really know how it's going to hold. Some people are having issues also, I think it's not only firmware issues but maybe some 16X have other issues that can't be fixed by firmware, but not sure.
Regarding it's behavior, I do love this EUC, mine has been flawless and I love the way it handles and accelerates, plus it's super silent, even more than the MSX & Nikola from what I've tested ! Overall I would say it still has some flaws to it, but yes I can recommend it, but it depends what you're looking for.

Yes there is, I disabled all lights, only the rear red lights do come on when I break. In the app you can close the led lights, however by default the headlight is in "auto" mode, that means that if the light sensor detects that it's dark, it's going to go on, you can disable it by pressing several times on the power button. You will be able to toggle it back by pressing the power button again ! (1.06 fw has different light mods : auto/full/low beam/high beam/off )
 

@eddiemoy I still use the original CX321 tire, I feel the gyro effect at high speed but at the same time it's still very agile, does the CYT tire really improve agility or does it simply make it feel like conventional EUCs ?

CYT is agile at all speeds.  I find the CX tire with the gyro effect require different technique to get the agility at higher speeds.  But not as agile as the CYT tire.  You can think of the CYT tire as conventional EUC but more agile.  If you like the cx stick with it for the unconventional feel.  That is why some people like the Z10.  

[chrisjunlee]

31 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

Hi, it's like the 80% power output alarm of the Gotways, it's to let you know that you're reaching max power, however it can be confused with the 3rd speed alarm as the beeping is the same.

Oh nice. It's interesting Kingsong's warning threshold is higher than Gotway's; would've expected the other way around.

[Mike Sacristan]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

That H-5102 seems to be the default ChaoYang tire that most Ali sellers ship, no matter what is in the auction photos. It’s the factory installed tire on the MSX and 18XL as well. Otherwise a nice tire, but the grip on wet unpaved surfaces is bad.

The ”community tire” that @Hibiki Mr.H so kindly bought and will ship for some of us is the H-5167. I’d expect it to grip much better when wet, and off road in general.

I would say it's bad on mud in particular as it just slides like crazy.
But yeah we both live in Scandinavia with similar weather and forests and both ride an MSX. So we have some experience with this tire. 

5 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Did KS change the tire from Kenda?  That is what is on my 18L. Not sure about the grip.  I normally don’t ride when it is wet outside.  Plus I don’t do much off roading.  I’m strictly city roads rider.  

First batches came with the Kenda. Then they changed to H-5102. To me the Kenda is a floppy tire and ruins the feel of the 18L.
H-1502 is an awesome tire for city roads, works fine on gravel as well. Wet or dry. I have 5000km on mine and I bet I have 5000km left.
I haven't done much mud testing on my stock tire but so far the wheel is a beast off-road. Climbs so much easier than other wheels it does half the job for me.

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Oh nice. It's interesting Kingsong's warning threshold is higher than Gotway's; would've expected the other way around.

Despite everyone calling it ”the 80% alarm”, Gotway doesn’t have a power based alarm. Only speed based ones. The last one goes off at a speed that is determined by the battery level. On the 84V MSX the speed threshold goes linearly from something like 55km/h at 100% battery to 45km/h at 10% battery.

A GW employer provided a hand drawn chart that included the speeds for several current GW models.

[JesterOTL]

High all,

Just got my KS 16X last week and did a range test. A word on the right... it was mostly flat with only moderate changes in elevation. It was fair weather with no serious headwinds. Temperature was a pleasant 80 F....

I rode it to nearly 0 and got 58 miles (93.3 KM). Here are some additional details about me:

-I’m 200 lbs and 5’ 11” tall

-Tire pressure was 25 PSI (I could have gone further with more pressure I think)

-Top speed was 23 mph (yeah, I babied the speed as I was on a popular rails to trails route)

Hope that helps anyone who’s interested in the 16X. It’s a massive step-up from my KS 16S with a ton of power and great build quality. I’ve never ridden a Gotway so I have nothing to compare it to. I can confirm that the Kingsong app is so bad on the iPhone it really detracts from the initial impression of the wheel, but if you can tolerate that, I’d highly recommend this wheel.

[eddiemoy]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:45 PM, buell47 said:

What do you think of that?

74V are at 50% battery!!! That means the way back will be very very long.  

Firmware Update 1.0.6

1. Add turning light function

2. Automatically adjust between high beam and low beam, including brightness

3. Can click power button to switch high beam or low beam

4. Add auto power off function, default 120 minutes(this function will be not activated during riding or playing music status)

5. Fan activated when controller temperature reach 45 centigrade with 50% power, 100% power when exceed 65 centigrade

6. Fix the bug that some voice report is still working when close voice speak switch

7. Add output power alarm, it will beep 4 times when over 88%

8. Low Voltage Speed Limit will be activated when the battery voltage is less than 74V, min speed limit 25km/h

9. Fix forward/backward shaking problems of some wheels

 

Then I can keep my Inmotion V8 with the 800 Watt motor. If the battery capacity exceeds 50 %, I'll be just as fast with it. 

I just came back from testing the new CYT tire.  Very nice!  Noticed throttling started at 76V with new firmware V1.06.  Sucks!  I was only able to go up to 45kmph, when throttling started, before it said please decelerate.  WTF.

Edited September 1, 2019 by eddiemoy

[erk1024]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Despite everyone calling it ”the 80% alarm”, Gotway doesn’t have a power based alarm.

Good to know. Somebody was saying if I push the Monster V3 too hard on the lean angle, I'd get the "80% alarm" but you're saying that's not going to happen? That it's just a speed alarm (that can't be disabled). If that's the case, then I have to depend on Darkness Bot or Wheel Log to tell me the amps. And Marty sets his alarm at 90amps. Although in reality, we don't know how accurate that number is, how noisy the data is, etc. etc.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Noticed throttling started at 76V with new firmware V1.06.  Sucks! 

76V in resting or riding condition? 

[eddiemoy]

11 minutes ago, buell47 said:

76V in resting or riding condition? 

Resting.  I had to stop to check the voltage. For some reason the ks app still shows 100%. Had to look at info to see the batt voltage. Need to check again, currently charging with quickcharger and stick together.  Getting 6.5amps. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I think you're had reading right. 76V resting is probably 74V (stated voltage where speed limit starts) while riding. 

[Slashebeest]

3 hours ago, JesterOTL said:

High all,

Just got my KS 16X last week and did a range test. A word on the right... it was mostly flat with only moderate changes in elevation. It was fair weather with no serious headwinds. Temperature was a pleasant 80 F....

I rode it to nearly 0 and got 58 miles (93.3 KM). Here are some additional details about me:

-I’m 200 lbs and 5’ 11” tall

-Tire pressure was 25 PSI (I could have gone further with more pressure I think)

-Top speed was 23 mph (yeah, I babied the speed as I was on a popular rails to trails route)

Hope that helps anyone who’s interested in the 16X. It’s a massive step-up from my KS 16S with a ton of power and great build quality. I’ve never ridden a Gotway so I have nothing to compare it to. I can confirm that the Kingsong app is so bad on the iPhone it really detracts from the initial impression of the wheel, but if you can tolerate that, I’d highly recommend this wheel.

Wow, nice range.

Max I've done with 1 charge is 78km.

 

So far I am loving this wheel, the speed, power, stabillity, build quality.

Apart from the hard braking wobbles at +25mph, I've had no issues at all, no pedal dip, app works without problems.

And the wobbles I can eliminate by changing the tire, but so far I really like it, the gyro effect demands a different type of cornering which I think is awesome 

 

for me too it's a massive step-up from my 16b, it's a whole new world of EUC riding, the range, power  and the big tire make me wanna ride even more than before .

just like you, I highly recommend this wheel.

Next step: convince my friends to share my new obsession 

 

[chrisjunlee]

7 minutes ago, Slashebeest said:

the gyro effect demands a different type of cornering which I think is awesome

You will come to love the gyro effect at speed

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Good to know. Somebody was saying if I push the Monster V3 too hard on the lean angle, I'd get the "80% alarm" but you're saying that's not going to happen? That it's just a speed alarm (that can't be disabled).

As far as I know, yes. I toasted my MSX on a stupendously steep hill. No alarms. People that have been overleaned various GW models have not mentioned hearing an alarm, unless they were nearing the speed threshold.

When accelerating hard, the voltage and hence the speed threshold decreases. So how you ride does have a secondary effect at the threshold speed. But for example on the 84V MSX it will never be under 45km/h.

Quote

If that's the case, then I have to depend on Darkness Bot or Wheel Log to tell me the amps.

Absolutely. The wheel has no actual means of protecting you from overleaning the wheel.

Quote

And Marty sets his alarm at 90amps. Although in reality, we don't know how accurate that number is, how noisy the data is, etc. etc.

Oh, but we do know! Accuracy = +- 130A or +-400%, noise level = many times louder than actual data! 

[Unventor]

18 hours ago, Pingouin said:

I have a question : do you know if the KS16X has SMART BMS ? Are the batteries the same as the KS18XL ?

No it does not have smart bms, repeated here and other threads several times. 

And battery cells might be same but the physical total pack are shaped to fit the KS16X so you can't interchange these packs if that was what you though of asking this. 

Go on YouTube and compare the official disassembled videos from KS, you will see.