KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[US69]

O

4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Problem with these restrictions is that many have been riding the wheel aggressively without incident.  And this restriction screams bullshit. And people didn’t buy the wheel to get these restrictions.  You will have a full on revolt.  These wheels are not cheap.   And some will feel cheated as it may be their primary wheel.  KS need to fix this.  

@US69

Ok,

 

i hope some know that i play it honest, so i will tell it like it is:

 

The 16X is technical capable of doing 50kmh down to 66Volt....

BUT...when using that Low speed as a “throttling” stop, there is no safety margin left at allfor very heavy riders and very agressive accelerations.

So as it is now:

The speed throttling is implemented STARTING on 50%(74Volt) and then going down to 61Volt(0%) ...reaching 25kmh on 0%.

this means in theorie that 45kmh are reached at about 70-72Volt, 40kmh at 66-68, 35kmh at about 68-66Volt, 30kmh at 64-62Volt!

while i have to say anything under 66 is allready VERY empty and due to voltage drop no fun to drive!

Please Dont nail my on totally exakt numbers, as these are numbers under load....

 

I just can say:

Thats a SAFETY feature....Yes, you might -when normal driving- under 1.05 NOT have any effects at 70Volt or 68Volt...but when you experience a potthole or accelerate to much...you might get a voltage drop....and reach the treshold! New limits are NOT implemented for FUN!

So KS has worked in some safety margins on 1.06!!!

 

The Firnware is a work in progress All time...so perhaps this “margins” can be lowered a bit in the future....in the moment they are under the premise of “SAFETY FIRST”.

 

To anyone calling out “false advertisement” or worse.....KS is not doing that to bully you...they are doing that for keeping you safe!

Other brands...InMotion...start going down in speed even at 80% battery....So would you call the v10f 40kmh a false advertisment?

there are even other brands...that just dont care about your health at all...and say findout max speed for yourself.

 

STILL: KS  is hearing  you and will try to better the situation...but in the end they/we will not give  up on safety!

 

I hope this clarifies some things up!

 

 

 

 

My Totally personal view:

I have had 12 wheels...and my general behaviour is that i have charged ALL those wheels, when i was reaching 35-30% battery!

My point is: So from 50-35% i perhaps get a speed throtting of- max- 40-45kmh on the 16x...which i personallz seldom reach!

I say that....as on ALL my wheels, down under 30-35% the voltage drop was that big...that it makes no fun dribing anymore....

So just as my personal experience: i dont understand the trouble that much...are we talking of theoretic or practicle problems?

Just asking, .dont get me wrong!

 

[ir_fuel]

For me, I start stressing when I hit 50% battery on any wheel. For me that's the safe lower limit. I will throttle my own speed as soon as I go below.

[Flying W]

@US69 I totally see your point about 30% being no fun anymore, especially on a 3p pack like the mcm5 has. The voltage drop is dramatic and any hills will take me into the teens if I'm resting at 30% or so. 

I would imagine a 6p battery pack would not have nearly as dramatic of a voltage drop though and as such allow a lower % for throttling to start. 

I know this is all about safety but many gotway riders are even more aggressive than kingsong riders and they are not losing teeth everyday. 

I'm about 200lbs with gear and a pack on my back so pretty much in the middle between light and heavy. I have never tried to hit the advertised top speed on a gotway because they beep at me, and i know I'm not light enough to do it.  I think some of the safety is the responsibility of the rider. 

I still will get the 16x, my main use for it will be off road anyway so I may not even notice the reduced top speed anyway. I think it was just a surprise to see an update go "backwards" so to speak.

[stephen]

12 minutes ago, US69 said:

O

Ok,

 

i hope some know that i play it honest, so i will tell it like it is:

 

The 16X is technical capable of doing 50kmh down to 66Volt....

BUT...when using that Low speed as a “throttling” stop, there is no safety margin left at allfor very heavy riders and very agressive accelerations.

So as it is now:

The speed throttling is implemented STARTING on 50%(74Volt) and then going down to 61Volt(0%) ...reaching 25kmh on 0%.

this means in theorie that 45kmh are reached at about 70-72Volt, 40kmh at 66-68, 35kmh at about 68-66Volt, 30kmh at 64-62Volt!

while i have to say anything under 66 is allready VERY empty and due to voltage drop no fun to drive!

Please Dont nail my on totally exakt numbers, as these are numbers under load....

 

I just can say:

Thats a SAFETY feature....Yes, you might -when normal driving- under 1.05 NOT have any effects at 70Volt or 68Volt...but when you experience a potthole or accelerate to much...you might get a voltage drop....and reach the treshold! New limits are NOT implemented for FUN!

So KS has worked in some safety margins on 1.06!!!

 

The Firnware is a work in progress All time...so perhaps this “margins” can be lowered a bit in the future....in the moment they are under the premise of “SAFETY FIRST”.

 

To anyone calling out “false advertisement” or worse.....KS is not doing that to bully you...they are doing that for keeping you safe!

Other brands...InMotion...start going down in speed even at 80% battery....So would you call the v10f 40kmh a false advertisment?

there are even other brands...that just dont care about your health at all...and say findout max speed for yourself.

 

STILL: KS  is hearing  you and will try to better the situation...but in the end they/we will not give  up on safety!

 

I hope this clarifies some things up!

 

 

 

 

My Totally personal view:

I have had 12 wheels...and my general behaviour is that i have charged ALL those wheels, when i was reaching 35-30% battery!

My point is: So from 50-35% i perhaps get a speed throtting of- max- 40-45kmh on the 16x...which i personallz seldom reach!

I say that....as on ALL my wheels, down under 30-35% the voltage drop was that big...that it makes no fun dribing anymore....

So just as my personal experience: i dont understand the trouble that much...are we talking of theoretic or practicle problems?

Just asking, .dont get me wrong!

 

Thanks for your honesty @US69 I've looked at the figures and cba working them out anymore , I'm 200lbs i get my wheel tomorrow and I'll see how the wheel performs and see if it tilts me back on my normal riding routes/adventures, if it doesn't then I'll be happy ,i ride around 25mph and that's not constant as i don't have roads wide or big I'll take my msx for Street cruising, so rather than look at figures anymore I'll do a real life test , i might do a first ride out of the box so you can see my reactions😁😁😁

Thanks ulf for  answers 👍

[stephen]

7 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

For me, I start stressing when I hit 50% battery on any wheel. For me that's the safe lower limit. I will throttle my own speed as soon as I go below.

Yeah that's how i work,, know your wheel and your limits but there's people that don't 

[US69]

8 minutes ago, stephen said:

Thanks for your honesty @US69 I've looked at the figures and cba working them out anymore , I'm 200lbs i get my wheel tomorrow and I'll see how the wheel performs and see if it tilts me back on my normal riding routes/adventures, if it doesn't then I'll be happy ,i ride around 25mph and that's not constant as i don't have roads wide or big I'll take my msx for Street cruising, so rather than look at figures anymore I'll do a real life test , i might do a first ride out of the box so you can see my reactions😁😁😁

Thanks ulf for  answers 👍

Just a hint 

i am 95kg...so over 200lbs....no problems at all, the 16x propelling me forward like nonother wheel had ;-)

[stephen]

5 minutes ago, US69 said:

Just a hint 

i am 95kg...so over 200lbs....no problems at all, the 16x propelling me forward like nonother wheel had ;-)

Sorry for feeling happeier😁

[US69]

14 minutes ago, Flying W said:

@US69 I totally see your point about 30% being no fun anymore, especially on a 3p pack like the mcm5 has. The voltage drop is dramatic and any hills will take me into the teens if I'm resting at 30% or so. 

I would imagine a 6p battery pack would not have nearly as dramatic of a voltage drop though and as such allow a lower % for throttling to start. 

I know this is all about safety but many gotway riders are even more aggressive than kingsong riders and they are not losing teeth everyday. 

I'm about 200lbs with gear and a pack on my back so pretty much in the middle between light and heavy. I have never tried to hit the advertised top speed on a gotway because they beep at me, and i know I'm not light enough to do it.  I think some of the safety is the responsibility of the rider. 

I still will get the 16x, my main use for it will be off road anyway so I may not even notice the reduced top speed anyway. I think it was just a surprise to see an update go "backwards" so to speak.

Thabks for your answer!

Actually...even on a 6P system the voltage drop is there...yes, not as “dramatic” as on a 3p system, but its just a bit better.

I dont want to compare GW and KS...they have jus different motor drivers...

Just one thing...everyone might bash about the “early speed reducing” on a KS....but the thruth is, KS is allowing your battery pack to go down to 61-63Volt...while a GW has its emptyness at 66-68Volt.

Whrn you take that into consideration....they both start reducing at the same point, while GW tells you it is 20% (72Volt) and KS is telling you that it is 40%(72Volt)....

Please!!! Dont hit me on exact numbers...thats all just a “about”...and by no means meant against GW....

Just trying to explain that it is much, much less “bad” ...as it seams!!!

[Slashebeest]

I still think they should have mentioned this in the firmware log, so the owner can decide if he wants to upgrade or not.

I'm at 75kg and hit tiltback at 43km/h with 65% left while accelerating real slow and steady. 

If I knew, I would have stayed at 1,05

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Slashebeest

[stephen]

So is this loaded voltage so a heavier rider will get tiltback earlier how are we going to know when it's going to tilt us back i don't like surprises , is this correct. Just trying to understand

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

O

Ok,

 

i hope some know that i play it honest, so i will tell it like it is:

 

The 16X is technical capable of doing 50kmh down to 66Volt....

BUT...when using that Low speed as a “throttling” stop, there is no safety margin left at allfor very heavy riders and very agressive accelerations.

So as it is now:

The speed throttling is implemented STARTING on 50%(74Volt) and then going down to 61Volt(0%) ...reaching 25kmh on 0%.

this means in theorie that 45kmh are reached at about 70-72Volt, 40kmh at 66-68, 35kmh at about 68-66Volt, 30kmh at 64-62Volt!

while i have to say anything under 66 is allready VERY empty and due to voltage drop no fun to drive!

Please Dont nail my on totally exakt numbers, as these are numbers under load....

 

I just can say:

Thats a SAFETY feature....Yes, you might -when normal driving- under 1.05 NOT have any effects at 70Volt or 68Volt...but when you experience a potthole or accelerate to much...you might get a voltage drop....and reach the treshold! New limits are NOT implemented for FUN!

So KS has worked in some safety margins on 1.06!!!

 

The Firnware is a work in progress All time...so perhaps this “margins” can be lowered a bit in the future....in the moment they are under the premise of “SAFETY FIRST”.

 

To anyone calling out “false advertisement” or worse.....KS is not doing that to bully you...they are doing that for keeping you safe!

Other brands...InMotion...start going down in speed even at 80% battery....So would you call the v10f 40kmh a false advertisment?

there are even other brands...that just dont care about your health at all...and say findout max speed for yourself.

 

STILL: KS  is hearing  you and will try to better the situation...but in the end they/we will not give  up on safety!

 

I hope this clarifies some things up!

 

 

 

 

My Totally personal view:

I have had 12 wheels...and my general behaviour is that i have charged ALL those wheels, when i was reaching 35-30% battery!

My point is: So from 50-35% i perhaps get a speed throtting of- max- 40-45kmh on the 16x...which i personallz seldom reach!

I say that....as on ALL my wheels, down under 30-35% the voltage drop was that big...that it makes no fun dribing anymore....

So just as my personal experience: i dont understand the trouble that much...are we talking of theoretic or practicle problems?

Just asking, .dont get me wrong!

 

Thanks man. Really awesome information and I also appreciate your honesty. I love my 16X

 

 Where can I ask this question?  So if there are no safeties on Gotway Nikola Plus  then what happens if the battery is at 5% and someone gets on and floor is it? Will it go 40 mph? Does it cut out and dump the rider? How does that work? I know what happens on the 16X.  It won’t let you go past a certain speed when the battery is that low period. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Patton250

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

so rather than look at figures anymore I'll do a real life test , i might do a first ride out of the box so you can see my reactions😁😁😁

Thanks ulf for  answers 👍

Take a look of my 1st day experience of my KS16X. 

Speed isn't everything 😉 it has been a long time since I challenged my brain like today. Taking the box to my car was a very interesting sensation. 

As long as I can go 35ish kmh it is good enough for how I use my wheel. The great part is the breaking seems to be beyond excellent at low speeds. And under good control, no wobbles... Yet. 

But I had a bad day with my cats so I didn't push it on the wheel. I know to be careful not to ride if mind isn't 100 focused. 

Got a vet. Bill of 270€ and meds for 50€ but under the circumstances my cat seems to be good after all. 

Tomorrow I test riding. Maybe updating the fw to 1.06. 

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I know what happens on the 16X.  It won’t let you go past a certain speed when the battery is that low period. 

I can be very wrong... 

But I understand it is this way... 

The KS16X will do many things differently now. The key is safety how people precieve this is different especially if you are used to the GW-way. 

What KS is trying to do is to adapt to ride style and condition. You can ride fast but not aggressive or you can be very a as long you don't go fast.

But since this depends on load/strain/demand vs predicted capability that shifts, that is the challenge. And I do think they are likely to sving a few time like a pendulum back and forth but will get it right.

I like the idea, if they got it right I don't know.... yet at least. 

[Flying W]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

Just one thing...everyone might bash about the “early speed reducing” on a KS....but the thruth is, KS is allowing your battery pack to go down to 61-63Volt...while a GW has its emptyness at 66-68Volt.

This is very apparent on a 30 mile ride with the 16s and mcm5 together. There is a slight difference in capacity between them but when the mcm5 is on constant beeps going uphill at 5 to 7 mph the 16s (I sure the 4p pack helps a little too) goes up the same hill at 15mph with no tilt back. 

If I went to kick me off empty I'm sure 40 miles is achievable on the 16s. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

21 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Got a vet. Bill of 270€ and meds for 50€ but under the circumstances my cat seems to be good after all. 

What's happened?

Did you dropped your 16X on your couch where the cat was sleeping? 

[Unventor]

Just now, buell47 said:

What's happened?

Did you dropped your 16X on your couch where the cat was sleeping? 

Nope she has a mild urininfection. And apparently fell down from the window (frame) and her rear leg got stuck in the radiator. Her body twisted hanging in one paw stuck screaming and panicking. But she is okey, got antibiotics to fight the urininfection and painkillers. 

I have never hear a cat scream like that before. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

7 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Nope she has a mild urininfection. And apparently fell down from the window (frame) and her rear leg got stuck in the radiator. Her body twisted hanging in one paw stuck screaming and panicking. But she is okey, got antibiotics to fight the urininfection and painkillers. 

I have never hear a cat scream like that before. 

Oh, that sounds really bad. 

I'm with you and under this circumstances I wouldn't be happy and could ride and have fun. 

Hope she gets back on her feet fast.

[Dzlchef]

3 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Where can I ask this question?  So if there are no safeties on Gotway Nikola Plus  then what happens if the battery is at 5% and someone gets on and floor is it? Will it go 40 mph? Does it cut out and dump the rider? How does that work? I know what happens on the 16X.  It won’t let you go past a certain speed when the battery is that low period. 

It will give you 80% beeps at a very low speed and if you ignore and lean forward then you’ll do a face plant, albeit at a low speed. 

[Kens]

@US69 Throttling at 50% is #1 DEAL BREAKER for me and majority of people from buying this wheel.

My group rides with Marty & C.O always take more than 50% battery. I read Kingsong's reasoning for the throttling as you wrote above but you see yourself the reaction from majority of people in this thread is a no, no and no. We can accept throttling at 30% battery like 18XL as a good safety feature but not, once again NOT and NOT! tolerate at 50% for a $2k+ wheel.

Kingsong can start throttling at 80% like inmotion for beginner wheel but not for high performance top of the line best of the best like the 16X.

Thank you and I'm still mad.

P.S: Why not giving an option in the app? A beginner (which what Kingsong so afraid of falling) will not be able to know or bother with it.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Kens

[DragonFZ]

On 8/29/2019 at 12:24 AM, Genghis said:

@DragonFZ OK, I'm slowly catching up to you now.  I went back out to a small deserted parking lot near my place and tried practicing again.  It started out similar to Day 1, hop on, lose control after only a few feet, jump off, and try to catch the wheel before it eats more pavement. 

The parking lot is basically a small rectangular loop, with a slight incline/decline on the long  path.  So I decided to see if using gravity would help me get started going on the slight decline.  I could not control it at all.  I was really just all over the place.  A few feet here, a few yards there, but never with control.  Really just letting the wheel take me where it wanted to go before I had to jump off.  So I decided to try the opposite and go up the slight incline, maybe fighting gravity would help with the control.  It was a little harder getting started, but I was able to go a little bit further and felt like I had a little bit more control, but usually having to jump off when I would eventually lose control.  So doing this over and over, up and down the same straight path with little victories. 

Eventually I attempted to turn at the end of the path, with marginal success.  Before this gets too long, I eventually was able to do the loop.  The ugliest damn loops you've ever seen.  Did about 20-30 loops with a few starts and stops along the way.  By the end, I was feeling more comfortable, but I still have marginal control of the wheel.  For now I still wouldn't ride around any other cars or pedestrians.  Not too bad for Day 2. 

Me: weight about 162 lbs.  Tire pressure about 24 psi.  Legs pinching the wheel the entire time.  App says about 6.5 miles, but I'm not sure if that's accurate, doesn't feel like I've gone 6.5 miles.  Anyhow, it was a successful evening.  I hope your progress is going well also.

Update: I'm at 26 miles and according to KS app I have reach 28.xx miles per hour, which I have no idea how I could have done that. Anyway, yesterday I practiced in the driveway (no walls and smooth level floors). I'm decent at mounting and good at dismounting. I'm using the belt method, which have saved my 16X from any cracks (so no padding so far). Today, I rode to the neighborhood park and did some parking lots and uphills and downhills with no issues. I think one more week or two of park practice I'll be able to ride with the OneWheel group on the mountain bike trails. Got frustrated with the Learner mode and switched to Experient Mode.

Still at 1.05... not updating.

Edited September 3, 2019 by DragonFZ

[RoadRunner]

What i really don‘t understand is why can my XL go 50kmh down to 25% and the much newer 16X with a more powerful motor can’t or won’t.

I rode my XL for about 2300km in 4 months by now and i never had any problems.

Also i didn’t have any problems riding my X for 1200km by now without throttling. 

[Jon Stern]

On this ride segment, my top speed was 30mph and my average speed was 41.5mph.

I'm pretty impressed by this wheel's ability to violate the laws of physics, mathematics, and logic.

Take that Gotway!

[Genghis]

1 hour ago, DragonFZ said:

Update: I'm at 26 miles and according to KS app I have reach 28.xx miles per hour, which I have no idea how I could have done that. Anyway, yesterday I practiced in the driveway (no walls and smooth level floors). I'm decent at mounting and good at dismounting. I'm using the belt method, which have saved my 16X from any cracks (so no padding so far). Today, I rode to the neighborhood park and did some parking lots and uphills and downhills with no issues. I think one more week or two of park practice I'll be able to ride with the OneWheel group on the mountain bike trails. Got frustrated with the Learner mode and switched to Experient Mode.

Still at 1.05... not updating.

Nice job.  I had forgotten about the belt method.  Oh well too late.  The bottom of my pedals have some decent scratches (but that's to be expected), and I have a couple of deep scratches on top of the handle.  My friend let it tumble over in a parking lot.  I used a half abandoned shopping center parking lot, where me and a friend could practice on the 16x.  I'm getting more comfortable with it.  Although I am getting side to side wobbling a lot.  I'm almost certain it's just my leg and feet muscles are not use to the EUC.  Tonight I attempted some back neighborhoods and back on a bike trail.  It was a bit odd riding at night.  No flashlight, just the 16x headlight.

I think I switched mine to Medium mode.  I don't know if I can tell a difference or not.  I haven't tried Experient Mode yet.  I will need to try all three modes back to back on the same path to see if I can tell a difference or not.  And I'm still on 1.05 as well.  I think mine's at about 30 miles (but some of that was my buddy in the parking lot).  I don't know what my max speed is, definitely not 28mph.  I'm guessing about 17mph or so. 

[chrisjunlee]

8 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Where can I ask this question?  So if there are no safeties on Gotway Nikola Plus  then what happens if the battery is at 5% and someone gets on and floor is it? Will it go 40 mph? Does it cut out and dump the rider? How does that work? I know what happens on the 16X.  It won’t let you go past a certain speed when the battery is that low period. 

You can go past the throttled speed on the 16X - you'll just overlean and faceplant. It's an artificial faceplant threshold vs a natural out-of-power limit.

[Micheal Shen]

11 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

You can go past the throttled speed on the 16X - you'll just overlean and faceplant. It's an artificial faceplant threshold vs a natural out-of-power limit.

Bcz KS-16X speed accelerate more fast than other wheels, although max speed is not the highest.