KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Now we know GPS is inaccurate by 6% - excellent work 😎

@stephenbruh, that's the longest image of all time - of all time. RIP thumbs.

  Yeah, maybe a little image scaling would have worked best with this post 

[stephen]

5 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Now we know GPS is inaccurate by 6% - excellent work 😎

@stephenbruh, that's the longest image of all time - of all time. RIP thumbs.

I thought I'd share the whole screen so you could see everything rather than just the speed graph😁😁

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

  Yeah, maybe a little image scaling would have worked best with this post 

How's that work lol, i just screen shot it with phone 🤪 i promise i won't do anymore .. Just don't quote the post lol or it will be a long thread😁😁

[Gustesta]

38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Get a GPS Speedometer app for your phone.

You do know that both KingSong and Gotway speeds are usually about ~10% off, right? I haven't tested the 16X, but most other wheels are incorrect. So 25-mph is actually closer to ~22-mph.

16x has the same problem.  Those apps are not accurate at all.  They always show a faster speed!  

[Marty Backe]

51 minutes ago, stephen said:

How's that work lol, i just screen shot it with phone 🤪 i promise i won't do anymore .. Just don't quote the post lol or it will be a long thread😁😁

Just "Resize" the image - 50% is a good starting value.

[Mike Paolini]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Really? I suppose if the 16X existed in a vacuum (no other competitors, including the 18XL) and we were in 2016, yeah, the 16X would be fantastic.

So you're on a 40-mile ride and after ~20-miles you're limited to the low-20's???

Given all the other wheels out there (including other KingSong models), this 1.06 behavior is lame and worthy of labeling the 16X as a Intermediate Wheel. Advance riders need not apply.

No, I've tested 1.06 and don't find the warnings I get at 24 mph @ 40% annoying because I don't tend to push it above 25 mph generally at full power.

I mean ultimately you are arguing about a few miles per hour, the difference between say 28 and 24, - giving up 4 mph for a safety margin is a no brainer.   Hell even if it it was 20 mph, I would not find it an issue as a trade off for safety.    20 mph is still more than enough to get seriously hurt, and frankly I rather have the power reserve for hitting an unseen pot hole and staying upright than risking a break or worse... That seems a fair trade off for me. 
 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Mike Paolini

[Mike Paolini]

@Marty Backe  Heck now that I think about it, I'm most surprised to find you on the other side of this argument.  Given a) you aren't a fast rider, and b) you've actually gone down on a long ride and busted a bone do to a pot hole. 

[chrisjunlee]

12 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

frankly I rather have the power reserve for hitting an unseen pot hole

In my experience, a pothole big enough to do any harm tends to be very seen-able.

Like saying "I ride slow so I can have enough time to react to an unseen big blaring red fire truck"

12 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

More, even if it was 20 mph, I would not find it an issue as a trade off for safety.  20 mph is still more than enough to get seriously hurt

1. Everyone has a different risk threshold and ability and/or training to mitigate those risks
2. Those comfortable with 30mph speeds have bought this wheel, only to be nerfed post sales

It is far safer going 30mph on an empty, well known impeccable road, than weaving in and out of rush hour traffic at 20mph. Speed is just one factor to our risk models.

Edited September 5, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Mike Paolini]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

In my experience, a pothole big enough to do any harm tends to be very seen-able.

Like saying "I ride slow so I can have enough time to react to an unseen big blaring red fire truck"

And yet, arguably the most experienced ride among us busted a bone and posted about it....

And it would not have to be that big to cause a failure to balance at speed without a reserve frankly.

(I can't believe we are arguing this frankly given the engineers telling us what is what.  Just go by a distance or speed unit).

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

@Marty Backe  Heck now that I think about it, I'm most surprised to find you on the other side of this argument.  Given a) you aren't a fast rider, and b) you've actually gone down on a long ride and busted a bone do to a pot hole. 

I've been commenting for a long time now that I'm not a fast rider. But I've been quantifying that as meaning I prefer to max out near 25mph. I've been very consistent with that message.

When I say fast, I'm thinking of the guys that like to ride 30+ mph.

I broke my shoulder going ~18mph. Does that mean I don't want to ride faster than 18mph now? Nope.

Frankly, any wheel that can't maintain 25-mph speeds over the majority of its operating range is not a performance wheel. I thought the 16X was a performance wheel.

If the 16X was marketed from day one as a performance wheel above 50-percent battery I'd be totally OK with that. People still buy V8's. Fantastic. To each their own. But to convert a performance wheel to an intermediate wheel after I've purchased it, is just wrong. People should be pissed.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Gustesta]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been commenting for a long time now that I'm not a fast rider. But I've been quantifying that as meaning I prefer to max out near 25mph. I've been very consistent with that message.

When I say fast, I'm thinking of the guys that like to ride 30+ mph.

I broke my shoulder going ~18mph. Does that mean I don't want to ride faster than 18mph now? Nope.

Frankly, any wheel that can't maintain 25-mph speeds over the majority of its operating range is not a performance wheel. I thought the 16X was a performance wheel.

If the 16X was marketed from day one as a performance wheel above 50-percent battery I'd be totally OK with that. People still buy V8's. Fantastic. To each their own. But to convert a performance wheel to an intermediate wheel after I've purchased it, is just wrong. People should be pissed.

Marty are you aware that gotway started selling the updated Nikolas with the new 21700 battery cells and internal boards?  I wonder if they'll be faster. 

[DragonFZ]

Doing avg speed of 22.5 mph.. got slime and 30 PSI (was 20 ish PSI when I received it)... still using the belt, but don't really need it.. just got the tape and neoprene foam, after padding it I will get rid of the belt. I'm at 35 miles on the wheel.

[Sketch]

To advertise the 16x as something and then change the specs with speed throttling later on is not right at all.  I think we need an explanation why the 18XL doesn’t need the same throttling.  I’m all for safety but not when it comes with this drastic of a change I didn’t sign up for without any explanation.  I might have opted for the 18XL if I knew what I know now.  Come on Kingsong, make it right?  By the way, has anyone  emailed to get the beta firmware with less throttling?  Wasn’t that an option?

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Mike Paolini said:

I mean ultimately you are arguing about a few miles per hour, the difference between say 28 and 24, - giving up 4 mph for a safety margin is a no brainer.   Hell even if it it was 20 mph, I would not find it an issue as a trade off for safety.    20 mph is still more than enough to get seriously hurt, and frankly I rather have the power reserve for hitting an unseen pot hole and staying upright than risking a break or worse... That seems a fair trade off for me. 

It's actually gone from 31mph right down to 25% then throttling, now its 25mph at 60% battery and then 20mph at 50% battery and lower and lower etc That's  a huge difference and hek of a saftey margin

[CampDylan]

4 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

I can feel myself become airborne in the 20's 

I'm with you - on my Haibike (eBike) I found that right around 23/24 mph was the sweet spot, I felt like I was really moving fast, could contend with traffic, etc.  Sometimes the situation called for for higher speeds but because of the final gear I could only get around 28 to 30 mph with effort (crazy-fast cadence) but my record was 38mph.  

Still waiting on my order which will be my first wheel ever, this forum has me on the edge of my seat, lol.  But yes, I have a feeling I'll be happy with average speeds of 20 to 24mph but we'll see...  It will be my sole method of transportation, I've been on foot, city hire bike and bus for a little more than a month now since the Haibike was stolen,... can't wait!

[Adel]

15 minutes ago, stephen said:

It's actually gone from 31mph right down to 25% then throttling, now its 25mph at 60% battery and then 20mph at 50% battery and lower and lower etc That's  a huge difference and hek of a saftey margin

You're getting throttling at >50% battery capacity? I thought throttling started at 74V, is that not what you see, is it even worse ?

[stephen]

5 minutes ago, CampDylan said:

I have a feeling I'll be happy with average speeds of 20 to 24mph but we'll see

25mph is actually all we are after to keep safe margins if it must stay low after 60% , the wheel is actually capable of 50kmh right down to 66v so I've been informed by a kingsong rep😉 but they wanted a saftey margin and boy did they give us one ,,,,,, right up the shitter😁

Sort this out kingsong no one is happy paying £2000 for wheel they can only use for half the battery before it feels like a 3 year old 800wh wheel it's supposed to be an advanced wheel with the first 2200 motor 

[stephen]

7 minutes ago, Adel said:

You're getting throttling at >50% battery capacity? I thought throttling started at 74V, is that not what you see, is it even worse ?

Mine started at 76-78v

[stephen]

9 hours ago, fryman said:

Sure, if you ignore the tilt back or warning beeps.  My point is that the 16X should be safe with lower throttling and currently Kingsong is saying it is not.

There's more to this, what are they hiding? if it doesn't change they have found something wrong maybe in the firmware or hardware 🤔

[eddiemoy]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Get a GPS Speedometer app for your phone.

You do know that both KingSong and Gotway speeds are usually about ~10% off, right? I haven't tested the 16X, but most other wheels are incorrect. So 25-mph is actually closer to ~22-mph.

When I was running strava in the back ground, the top speed matched the KS16X top speed.  Was accurate I felt.  I know the distance they count on the app is way off.

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, stephen said:

25mph is actually all we are after to keep safe margins if it must stay low after 60% , the wheel is actually capable of 50kmh right down to 66v so I've been informed by a kingsong rep😉 but they wanted a saftey margin and boy did they give us one ,,,,,, right up the shitter😁

Sort this out kingsong no one is happy paying £2000 for wheel they can only use for half the battery before it feels like a 3 year old 800wh wheel it's supposed to be an advanced wheel with the first 2200 motor 

I spilt some of my drink on this one 

[stephen]

On 9/2/2019 at 8:18 PM, US69 said:

The 16X is technical capable of doing 50kmh down to 66Volt....

BUT...when using that Low speed as a “throttling” stop, there is no safety margin left at allfor very heavy riders and very agressive accelerations.

So as it is now:

The speed throttling is implemented STARTING on 50%(74Volt) and then going down to 61Volt(0%) ...reaching 25kmh on 0%.

this means in theorie that 45kmh are reached at about 70-72Volt, 40kmh at 66-68, 35kmh at about 68-66Volt, 30kmh at 64-62Volt!

 

I don't think anyone is getting these speeds tbh

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I spilt some of my drink on this one 

😁😁😁

Edited September 5, 2019 by stephen

[Patton250]

9 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

When I was running strava in the back ground, the top speed matched the KS16X top speed.  Was accurate I felt.  I know the distance they count on the app is way off.

 I compared the app to a regular phone speed app. It matched exactly. 

[Mike Paolini]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

It's actually gone from 31mph right down to 25% then throttling, now its 25mph at 60% battery and then 20mph at 50% battery and lower and lower etc That's  a huge difference and hek of a saftey margin

This is incorrect. I clocked it at 24 mph with a GPS at 40% battery before I got the verbal warning.

People seem to taking numbers and deflating them.

[Mike Paolini]

1 hour ago, CampDylan said:

I'm with you - on my Haibike (eBike) I found that right around 23/24 mph was the sweet spot, I felt like I was really moving fast, could contend with traffic, etc.  Sometimes the situation called for for higher speeds but because of the final gear I could only get around 28 to 30 mph with effort (crazy-fast cadence) but my record was 38mph.  

Still waiting on my order which will be my first wheel ever, this forum has me on the edge of my seat, lol.  But yes, I have a feeling I'll be happy with average speeds of 20 to 24mph but we'll see...  It will be my sole method of transportation, I've been on foot, city hire bike and bus for a little more than a month now since the Haibike was stolen,... can't wait!

You are going to love it.