Mike Sacristan

Nice calculation. And that was pretty much my point when I asked the question. As a response to this. While it is a factor it has to be quantifiable and meaningful. Is it advantageous or not and at which point is it no longer advantageous? On a 16X or on a Ninebot One E+? If we redo it with Petra and Simon. Petra 55kg. + ~26kg wheel = 81kg (16X is 24.5 but for the sake of the previous calculation) Simon 84kg. + ~26kg wheel = 110kg 81/110 = 73% countertorque counteracted with 55/84 = 65%. 1cm * 0.73 / 0.65 = 1.12cm for a 55kg rider to equal a 84kg rider? 12% forward difference? I find that hard to be believe.

I have been thinking a lot about rider weight. Let's take Petra. She weighs 55kg. Does this giver her an advantage or a disadvantage vs me at 64kg. Lighter weight on the wheel but less amount of mass that can be put over the front of the wheel. How about me vs a 84kg rider? How about when we start stressing the wheel with a 100kg+ rider? Divots and bumps are a big issue like you say and can quickly change the grade in a second. Sometimes we can go over and sometimes we can't. Larger wheels will roll over these uneven surfaces better and higher pedals will clear them. So the superior geometry of a wheel like the MCM5 will not be enough because of low pedals, low shell, etc. I'm sure that you will instantly find the advantages of the 16X considering how much riding you've been doing on the 18XL. The higher pedals on the 16X actually do let us turn while climbing which is a blessing. With the Tesla we will hit the pedals most of the time and sometimes with the 18XL too. And like you say we are already at the limit of our effort on the larger wheels so no extra ability for turning or twisting. Just squeezing and grinding. Here is some more climbing with the Tesla vs 16X. Aaaand later Simon and I did the same with the MSX and 18XL. Which resulted in quite a shit show.

I think it comes from how high the pedals are in relation the size of the wheel. So basically how close the pedals are to the center of the wheel and also the fact that the 16X encourage not touching the sides. Braking is much better in FW 1.07 though and now I am relearning to break without such a dramatic posture change. I also have to get my feet to a more neutral pedal position as I tend to have my feet to far forward. So a very little posture change forward gets me to 45 kmh but braking becomes a challenge. I'm sure you will do just fine on it though coming from an 18XL.

Let's look at this ski slope in Flottsbro and dissect it a little. https://goo.gl/maps/TyQ1gECiAc9xK2e18 If we move the points around and look at the elevation and the distance we get variations from 22% to 26% grade. If we remove the last part of the climb it is a 26% grade. Inclines around 25% become a different story especially if there is an issue with traction and uneven terrain as well as obstacles. Then we need clearance. This eliminates the Tesla and MCM5. The 18XL can live on but the MSX and 16X will be ahead in terms of clearance and pedal height. Here is Simon on the 18XL failing the climb which starts at 16:46. He made it half way. I struggled and was close to quitting but I pushed on. Here is another time when we were at that hill. Petra didn't quite make it to the half way mark. The climbing starts at 2:14. Obstacles like small rocks vs the smaller tyre cause quick angle increases which are hard to torque through when we are already at our physical limits. Here I am on the MSX. Failed halfway. The slope is similar to the hardest part of dream hill which is 40 meters long. The hard part of Flottsbro ski slope is 200 meters. Will be fun to try on FW 1.07.

Haha. Nypon = rose hip. Some funky tasting soup lol. It's has to much grainy / flour texture. Sweet and bitter but just weird to me. I think the hill climbing power comes from the geometry/diameter of the wheel itself and also because of the Kingsong algorithm in pedal assist. It will be interesting to try in FW 1.07 hard mode and compare it with the medium mode which was like FW 1.05 hard mode. I filmed Petra (Tesla) and Simon (18XL) trying to climb the hill and they both failed. Of course a lot is in the hands of the rider but you can't make something out of nothing. There are plenty of hills I have climbed where I have not been able to climb with the MSX and where Simon hasn't been able to climb with the 18XL. Even if I would have an MCM5 I would get stuck on rocks, roots, terrain, etc so for me the 16X is a big win and it unlocks new areas for me. The Tesla has great geometry and a bit higher pedals than the MCM5 but still gets stuck on way too much stuff. I have way too many clips of me climbing stuff haha. When it comes to going down... I suck. And my feeling when riding the 16X is that it runs away from me. So maybe if I moved my feet back a bit. I am going to practice more though... it's inevitable after all. I can't go up forever.

What a beast! Love his style!

Awesome post as always Mrelwood! Very enjoyable reading. Thank you!

Very nice work! Corresponds very well with what I am getting on my 16X and this was regardless of FW 1.05 or 1.07.

I think buttplant or backplant. I was at a skate park once and though I would do a slope backwards. I lost balance backwards and fell on my ass. Another time I was going to do a j-turn (riding forwards, stopping, twisting the wheel and going into backwards) and hit a bump while going backwards. Lost balance and fell on my ass and then rolled a bit onto my back.

Yeah we are getting some snow and ice here but the maintained bike paths are very nicely maintained. I was out on some trails yesterday and hit some bad ice patches. Still ice + dirt is usually doable as long as I ride slow and straight with no excessive body movement. I have been hesitant to do turns at speed on the 16X because it requires a bit more lean than the MSX and as the turn progresses it requires more and more lean. The CX tyre makes the 16X behave as if it has springs on the sides so as you turn the springs compress and if you want to turn more then you lean more and get just a liiiiittle more turn. However looking at footage the wheel is hardly leaning/tilting to the side... and I do it more with the pedals than I do it by hanging my body off the side of the wheel. I have been thinking about getting another tyre and some studs for some crazy winter riding but if I look at my winter riding in the beginning of this year I was on good asphalt probably 90% of the time. Time will tell! A pure snow beast would be fun!

Thank you for the clarification! Looks like I was putting too much focus on the actually battery alarm and being too skeptical regarding the 45 kmh 5 beeps despite lower voltage. Me and riding past alarms you know! I have been on low battery on the MSX only a couple of times and wasn't really brave enough to push it to speed when I was getting battery beeps at 20 kmh. I know the speed reduction thread as well as many other reports say 45 kmh but that's quite a jump. I don't mind beeping my last km home but I do mind crawling at 20 so I will suit up and give it a try so that I feel confident in the mechanisms and so that I also can feel the low voltage tilt-back which I have never reached. My problem with the tilt-back on the MSX is: It's a slow creeping tilt-back with a fixed value isn't it? If I set it to 48 kmh which ironically is the highest.. then it will start to creep on me. As soon as I start passing 35 kmh I already get a veeeeeeery slow tilt in the MSX which requires more intent from my side to defeat. At 45 kmh I am in "very high intent mode" and a creeping tilt-back that starts at 48 kmh could be easily confused with me not having enough intent, ending up more on the balls of my feet and wobbling. If it's set on 48 kmh though and I am at the point where I battery beep at 30kmh and 80% beep at 45 kmh then the tilt-back doesn't move down does it? So potentially I could still be doing 48 kmh (which is achievable at 5 beeps 80% and the extra +3kmh and tilt-back maybe fitting in there + another few kmh as the tilt-back also creeps). I can ride tilt-back + 6 kmh at low speed... at high speed I imagine I would run out of ankle dorsiflexion. Also as I understand it now the MSX when getting "beyond power capacity" does not cut but instead gets soft and some riders have even been able to detect this and recover by pulling their posture back and retreating. Like you say I would prefer a tilt-back that is in line with the 80% alarm. People are doing 60 kmh on the MSX... even a little more. The fastest I have done is 56 kmh and that was for a full minute or two totally clueless and not hearing the alarm. The total amount of times I have gone faster than 50 kmh though is maybe 20... so it's not like I am pushing the wheel to the max. I'm not that kind of person. 16X for me works like this (in the non voice mode): Set alarm to X speed (in my case 45 kmh). Get 5 beep alarm at 45 kmh. Push until I get soft tilt-back and if I like push to 88% 4 beep alarm and/or hard tilt-back (I rarely do this beyond 45 kmh). At a bit lower voltage: Not be able to achieve 45 kmh because of soft tilt-back starting at 44 kmh. Push on the tilt-back. Hit 45 kmh. Push a bit more. Maybe get 5 beep alarm or 4 beep alarm or hard tilt-back. The soft tilt-back on the 16X has always been reliable but if I set the alarm at for instance at 50 kmh the wheel sure does get very quiet. As for Gotway, are we still stuck at 48 kmh as the highest tilt-back value regardless if it's a 100v or not?

It sure would be fun if my Kingsong for iOS didn't just show 100% and 50kmh forever lol. Here is some testing I did a few weeks back with FW 1.07. At 67.5V and 38kmh I hit the alarm. A bit later also at 67.5V at 34kmh I got light tiltback. Pushed to 35. I sure wouldn't been doing those speeds at 67.5V on my MSX.

I have the 1-5A charger from 1radwerkstatt. 84v Gotway with the Lenovo adapter. It is variable with 80/90/100% cutoff as well but it cuts off lower than 80/90. More like 70/80.

Is this with Darknessbot? Darknessbot sees 66V as 0%. You would have to add 10-15% units for Darknessbot to be right. At 20% or 67V the most I could do was 34km before soft tiltback. I don't know how wheellog presents % but I do know that it can do it in 2 ways. This is why I always show the value in voltage. Hopefully it's precise enough and more universal. At 20% or 67V I was still doing 34kmh. I was just out riding. I got throttled with soft tiltback at 45kmh, 42kmh and 40kmh during my trip home. I also got throttled when I did a quick acceleration going up a small hill. During the climb I flicked the pedals and got a 4 beep alarm. During the rest of the ride I flicked the pedals at soft tiltback and did not get the 4 beep alarm. During the last soft tiltback at 40kmh and ~69V I flicked at soft tiltback and got hard tiltback. My numbers for my night cruise: Time - Voltage - Speed (soft tiltback) 23:08 - 71.48V - 45.6kmh (flicked several times with no result) 23:14 - 69.08 V- 40.7kmh (flicked to hard tiltback)