Heyzeus Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said: P.S. I've heard reports of the v11 not being a good mountain wheel or rainy weather wheel. Just throwing that out there can you elaborate on why it wouldn't be a good rainy weather wheel in comparison to the s18. Like is it due to the tire having poor traction or because the water resistance isn't truly IP55/or as good as claimed. At first blush I would think the v11 would handle rain better than the s18 given the more enclosed nature of it. Kuji sprayed off the s18 in the shower and I didn't see him do that with the v11, but gotway also showed the Nikola riding through the ocean in their early advertisements which is something that while shown is probably something that would destroy your wheel over time. So just because kuji sprayed it off doesn't necessarily mean it can handle it regularly. We really need an eco drift teardown of both of these wheels so we can see where the seals are and everything. Edited June 19, 2020 by Heyzeus 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B08AH Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: I'd say the v11 is definitely a great upgrade to any Inmotion wheel. virtually any KS wheel would be a great upgrade after those. 3 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: I can't imagine many people will sell their 16x or 18xl to purchase an s18 I can, and I will purchase it after 16x. Battery isn't everything. State of the art suspension is worth way more. Even if you are not limited in range by bad knees. And same logic applies to V11, why would anyone buy V11 ever? There is a bunch of wheels lighter than it, cheaper than it and/or have more battery? What does it excel at? Edited June 19, 2020 by B08AH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B08AH Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: P.S. I've heard reports of the v11 not being a good mountain wheel Kuji has reviews for both of them. He rides both of them into the speedbump on straight legs. On V11 his feet fly off the footplates, on S18 his feet stay put. It is the difference between riding in comfort and kissing the tarmac. fails way before mountain ride. Edited June 19, 2020 by B08AH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, B08AH said: Kuji has reviews for both of them. He rides both of them into the speedbump on straight legs. On V11 his feet fly off the footplates, on S18 his feet stay put. It is the difference between riding in comfort and kissing the tarmac. fails way before mountain ride. While that could be due to the different suspension systems the wheels employ that also could be due to differences in how pumped or not pumped the shocks are on one versus the other. If he's had more time with the s18 and finding its sweet spot for him versus the v11 it might explain why the v11 was too pogo'y in it's response causing him to leave the pedals versus the s18. Really needs more testing, though I think he did say in the s18 review that the S18 could handle various types of terrain without him having to adjust the pressure better than the v11, but I don't remember. It might be that the s18 can go from roads with cracks and potholes to off-road and back again with little adjustment whereas the v11 one might have one pressure for roads and potholes and adjust the pressure for fire trails and pure off road. Either way it's very cool to see both variations and I'll be curious to see which one stands the test of time when it comes to durability, reliability and maintenance. Edited June 19, 2020 by Heyzeus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, B08AH said: On V11 his feet fly off the footplates, He actually did that on purpose riding it straight legged so there was no suspension in his legs ,, pretty impressive tbh straight legged Suspension won't eliminate everything your still got to ride it just makes everything smoother and safer when needed Edited June 19, 2020 by stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musk Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, B08AH said: Kuji has reviews for both of them. He rides both of them into the speedbump on straight legs. On V11 his feet fly off the footplates, on S18 his feet stay put. It is the difference between riding in comfort and kissing the tarmac. fails way before mountain ride. Currently we don't know what can be attributed to suspension vs attributed to mechanical foot lock-in (the foot cutouts or pads). S18 has cutouts which act as built-in kuji pads to hold your feet. Since Kuji was involved in development and his physical size would be the "ideal" scenario for how well those pads lock your feet into the wheel. We don't know how those cutouts fit other people's feet, and we don't yet know if pads can be attached to the V11. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, stephen said: He actually did that on purpose riding it straight legged so there was no suspension in his legs ,, pretty impressive tbh straight legged Suspension won't eliminate everything your still got to ride it just makes everything smoother and safer when needed Yes, but what ai think he is saying is he did the same straight leg test on the S18 video and Kuji’s feet stayed planted on pedals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 minute ago, musk said: S18 has cutouts which act as built-in kuji pads to hold your feet. Since Kuji was involved in development and his physical size would be the "ideal" scenario for how well those pads lock your feet into the wheel. We don't know how those cutouts fit other people's feet, and we don't yet know if pads can be attached to the V11. Kuji has stated that the S18 has screws that can be adjusted (Raising or lowering pedals) so people with different size feet can adjust to fit the cutouts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Anyone else notice the pads on the pre-production S18 that Kuji rode is already shredded. I wonder if KS will use a more durable, harder material for the production models. If not, may need to buy extra spare pads if they sell them, or cover it up with gorilla tape or spray glue on some suede leather. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AtlasP Posted June 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, B08AH said: And same logic applies to V11, why would anyone buy V11 ever? There is a bunch of wheels lighter than it, cheaper than it and/or have more battery? What does it excel at? In Kuji's own words: "Both [the V11 and S18] are significantly smoother to ride on bumpy streets than any wheel without suspension." And between that and other comments, it's clear that both have a superior *overall ride quality* compared to any non-suspension wheel. Therefore both are potential upgrades/replacements to all prior mid-to-high end 84v wheels in many cases--the 16X, 18XL, 84v Nikola, 84v MSX (now defunct anyway), etc. There are now clear reasons to choose either one or the other, but I'd take either of them over any of those prior 84v wheels in most cases. The only categories not affected by this are the 100v wheels (where you trade the ride quality for top speed), the super long range 2000+ Wh wheels (where you trade the ride quality for distance), and the lightweight/last-mile wheels (where you trade the ride quality for low weight). Edited June 19, 2020 by AtlasP 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antec Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, AtlasP said: In Kuji's own words: "Both [the V11 and S18] are significantly smoother to ride on bumpy streets than any wheel without suspension." And between that and other comments, it's clear that both have a superior *overall ride quality* compared to any non-suspension wheel. Therefore both are potential upgrades/replacements to all prior mid-to-high end 84v wheels in many cases--the 16X, 18XL, 84v Nikola, 84v MSX (now defunct anyway), etc. There are now clear reasons to choose either one or the other, but I'd take either of them over any of those prior 84v wheels in most cases. The only categories not affected by this are the 100v wheels (where you trade the ride quality for top speed), the super long range 2000+ Wh wheels (where you trade the ride quality for distance), and the lightweight/last-mile wheels (where you trade the ride quality for low weight). I personally wouldnt trade the range of a 16x for suspension of s18, each to their own I guess. I will wait for gen 2 suspension wheels before thinking about getting one. Edited June 19, 2020 by Antec 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hollinghurst Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) On 6/19/2020 at 6:19 AM, Ben Kim said: Jumped on the S18 tonight. $1580 shipped to the USA, couldn’t resist. what was the shop called? Edit: was Chicway.shop with Bonus reduction for buying a Sherman too Edited July 29, 2020 by Daniel Hollinghurst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoCan Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, Antec said: I personally wouldnt trade the range of a 16x for suspension of s18, each to their own I guess. I will wait for gen 2 suspension wheels before thinking about getting one. I would trade anything for either suspension, except value for money by selling off a perfectly good MSX 84V 1600WH. Personally I'm more excited about trying out affordable pads and affordable pedals to make my machine the best it can be rather than risking 2K on a new idea. When it's an old idea I'll pay 2.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 A couple of first impressions reviews in French, probably auto translate works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted June 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: P.S. I've heard reports of the v11 not being a good mountain wheel or rainy weather wheel. Just throwing that out there Edited 6 hours ago by Flyboy10 That’s certainly a strong statement. I know you’re just reporting what you heard. I would pass a claim that S18 has better suspension for mountain ride. But a claim that (at least) the second best offroader ever created is not a good mountain wheel? And possibly best ever weather proofing and potentially H-666 tire are not good for rainy weather? I’m pretty sure it will be way better at these than any other wheel previously available. So maybe not best, but at least very good. And whether the S18 is then even better is to be seen. But if it really comes with the tire that was installed on the EUCO unboxing unit, then you can forget good off-roading, especially on wet or loose soil. V11 with H-666 (if that’s the final version) will go much further and faster no matter the unsprung weight or finer settings on the suspension. And it seems like the V11 might fit a knobby tire, the H5102 on the S18 appears to be already rubbing the fender. There seems to be no way to fit a knobby tire. I was excited to get to loan the S18 coming to our household for some shorter technical trail rides. But after seeing the tire situation I’m not very excited any more. I got used to riding with a knobby tire and know how much better it is when off-roading. H-666 will pass as off-roading tire for summer season but will probably not fit the S18. My point being: having any type of suspension will make any wheel much better for mountain ride. But after that the tire choice will probably be more important than fine details in the type of suspension. You don’t see a lot of road bikes with expensive suspension used at single tracks. But you will see a lot of knobby tired mountain bikes with no suspension there. Edited June 19, 2020 by UniVehje 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) On 6/19/2020 at 2:29 PM, Antec said: I personally wouldnt trade the range of a 16x for suspension of s18, each to their own I guess. I will wait for gen 2 suspension wheels before thinking about getting one. If you need the 16x's range, then the V11 is the superior choice. You trade only 54Wh (which is nothing) for superior ride quality, top speed & range at top speed (V11 throttles at 30% whereas 16X at 50%), torque (based on Kuji's comments), headlight, etc. Nobody in their right mind should buy a new 16X over a new V11 based on what we know at this point. Edited June 26, 2020 by AtlasP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, AtlasP said: Nobody in their right mind should buy a new 16X over a new V11 based on what we know at this point. The gruesome design and the lack of pads to attach are enough reasons for me that despite my longing for suspension I would never buy the V11 with the inferior suspension. Not even if I did not own a 16X. Faster charging? You're kidding? I charge with 9A. What is the V11 max charge current? I hope you're not talking about an extra $10 charger that comes with the inmotion, right? Edited June 19, 2020 by buell47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, B08AH said: Kuji has reviews for both of them. He rides both of them into the speedbump on straight legs. On V11 his feet fly off the footplates, on S18 his feet stay put. It is the difference between riding in comfort and kissing the tarmac. fails way before mountain ride. If you are going to ride with straight legs on any wheel, of course you will fail before a mountain ride. Suspension or not. On Kuji’s previous S18 videos, his feet leave the pedals in an identical speed bump. We can’t compare the suspensions based on a single setting. It seems that the practical difference in the suspension designs is the progressive nature of the S18 linkage system. Therefore it can be adjusted to a soft response, and the progressive behavior will still make it work for large impacts. Kuji’s demo V11 has the lower pedal height than what has been reported for the production version. Seems probable that he had to pump the suspension a bit on the harder side in order to maintain a reasonable ride height. Liam from Inmotion confirmed on the MadPack interview that the V11 suspension will not be damaged from bottoming out. Together with the new much higher ride height the suspension should be able to be left with a lower pressure, enabling a smoother ride. I can’t wait to get to test various pressure levels on the V11 suspension. I have no idea whether I will end up with a higher pressure to suit larger impacts, or a lower one for comfort that might sometimes bottom out. Either way, I’m not going to be riding with locked knees, and the suspension will work together with my riding style, not as a separate entity. Edited June 19, 2020 by mrelwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Heyzeus said: can you elaborate on why it wouldn't be a good rainy weather wheel in comparison to the s18 The fan to the headlight is exposed and literally sucking in water. Unless it is pushing air out. I did not think to see which way the fan is blowing. I'm waiting for an official teardown also as I was under the impression that the v11 was more rain proof than the s18. 4 hours ago, Heyzeus said: While that could be due to the different suspension systems the wheels employ that also could be due to differences in how pumped or not pumped the shocks are on one versus the other. The v11 is a pogo stick because it has to air cylinders that are full of air. Air suspension works more like a spring unless there is something else to balance or soften the rebound. Kuji would have tested the v11 suspension just as much as the s18. the only difference is the s18 has a much more complex suspension system. the cylinder has a positive and a negative chamber with lockout and rebound reaction adjustments. Thats 4x more complex than the v11. When I jumped while riding the v11 my feet went flying. When I jumped while riding the s18 my feet stayed down solely due to the built in kuji pads. 3 hours ago, Mango said: Anyone else notice the pads on the pre-production S18 that Kuji rode is already shredded. That's the feeling i got when i saw the demo unit. Padding had already fallen off and they super glued it back on. I hope they fix this. 1 hour ago, UniVehje said: That’s certainly a strong statement. I know you’re just reporting what you heard. I certainly hope both wheels get the h666 as it is far superior to the current tires. Marty will be the deciding factor on how mountain worthy these wheels are. The s18 tire is definitely a tight fit with the fender. Seems that 3rd party tires will be difficult to manage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbhb Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, UniVehje said: H-666 will pass as off-roading tire for summer season but will probably not fit the S18. From looking at this original photo Kuji posted when he first received the pre-production S18, it clearly shows the H-666 fitted to both the V11 & the S18 (@mrelwood can confirm the tread pattern) Now some confusion comes, when looking at the most recent video he posted that was filmed whilst holidaying in Sanya, which definitely DID not have the H-666 fitted! Kuji did mention that this S18 was sent to him whilst away in Sanya, so maybe he has actually been supplied TWO S18's by King Song (one went to his home, one went to his Hotel whilst holidaying) I'm sure that King Song has mentioned somewhere online, that the various different tires seen on all the pre-production s18's are not the Final choice of tire and that it will in fact be the Chao Yang H-666. The tire clearance issue, as I have already posted earlier in this thread (page 44), will be addressed as stated by @Jack King Song on Ian Speedyfeet's YouTube video comments! Edited June 20, 2020 by fbhb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B08AH Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: On Kuji’s previous S18 videos, his feet leave the pedals in an identical speed bump I must have missed it, since i watched his every S18 video and it did not happen once. As opposed to his V11 video where he nearly looses contact on every other bump. Edited June 20, 2020 by B08AH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUChristian Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 6 hours ago, AtlasP said: In Kuji's own words: "Both [the V11 and S18] are significantly smoother to ride on bumpy streets than any wheel without suspension." And between that and other comments, it's clear that both have a superior *overall ride quality* compared to any non-suspension wheel. Therefore both are potential upgrades/replacements to all prior mid-to-high end 84v wheels in many cases--the 16X, 18XL, 84v Nikola, 84v MSX (now defunct anyway), etc. There are now clear reasons to choose either one or the other, but I'd take either of them over any of those prior 84v wheels in most cases. The only categories not affected by this are the 100v wheels (where you trade the ride quality for top speed), the super long range 2000+ Wh wheels (where you trade the ride quality for distance), and the lightweight/last-mile wheels (where you trade the ride quality for low weight). Extremely intelligent and spot on on your description of trading ride quality for x. It’s all about what you want and what you are willing to trade for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdab Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: The fan to the headlight is exposed and literally sucking in water. Unless it is pushing air out. I did not think to see which way the fan is blowing. I'm waiting for an official teardown also as I was under the impression that the v11 was more rain proof than the s18. The image above from eWheels shows the airflow cooling the lights and fan pushing air through and around the internals. Take it for what it's worth, it's just an illustration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Daniel Hollinghurst said: what was the shop called? i went chicway.shop and thought i was getting a good deal at $1699 still time to get a refund to save money. Is Chicway an authorized retailer now? I keep seeing KS post about NOT buying from unauthorized retailers but wonder how the hell these people are getting the wheels to begin with? Moot point for me, as I gladly pay a little more to support an established and local business. ON a first gen wheel, it seems a serious dice roll to try and save a few $$ and lose any real after sales support. Ya damn cheap bastards.. Edited June 20, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hollinghurst Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) On 6/20/2020 at 6:26 AM, ShanesPlanet said: Is Chicway an authorized retailer now? I keep seeing KS post about NOT buying from unauthorized retailers but wonder how the hell these people are getting the wheels to begin with? Moot point for me, as I gladly pay a little more to support an established and local business. ON a first gen wheel, it seems a serious dice roll to try and save a few $$ and lose any real after sales support. Ya damn cheap bastards.. think its only really a risk if you don't want to get the tools out yourself to fix warranty issues. P.S. i got confirmation from @Ben Kim that he used chicway.shop Edited July 29, 2020 by Daniel Hollinghurst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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