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King Song S18 Discussion


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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Makes sense, if you completely disregard suspension. From what I’ve heard, it makes an awfully huge difference to the riding experience and comfort.

Sorry, I expressed myself wrong. Of course any suspension is better than the non-existent one on the 16X. :efee612b4b:

Of course the V11 has a lot of advantages over my 16X, I just mean that regardless of the ugly looks, the suspension doesn't meet my technical requirements, no matter if it's better than none.

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that so far the best wheel for off-road has been the MSX/MSP. V11 has the same tire that’s used on many MSXs, MSX style torque, more narrow and nimble, more comfortable riding posture, and almost the same battery capacity, albeit with noticeably deeper discharge limit. Do you really think that the suspension on the V11 will be so crappy that it would make an otherwise a seemingly good off-roader not suitable for off-road at all? I see zero sense in that view.

I hope that with the above answer I have also answered this question?

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Remains to be seen I guess. I see no issue bigger than with the S18.

I see it differently, because dirty sliding rails are never something good no matter where they are installed. The S18 mechanics, on the other hand, can be found and tested everywhere. I see a huge disadvantage. 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Sure there is. Inmotion has planned an official after market add-on themselves. And I can show you a photo of my DIY when I get mine installed. After the wheel arrives of course.

Somehow you can get something done, but guaranteed far from a good clean solution.

The constant rubbing of the shell on my shoes when the spring compresses (when I squeeze it between my feet in various situations) would also get on my nerves. 

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I'll clear myself. When I said I choose S18 over V11 because of I'm a city driver, I meant that I didn't need the extra batteries of the V11 because I don't plan to do so many kilometers in a single trip.

And s18 aestethic was way too better (for me)  :)

Anybody knows if gotway or ninebot are planning for suspentions too for the future? 

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27 minutes ago, Steven89 said:

I'll clear myself. When I said I choose S18 over V11 because of I'm a city driver, I meant that I didn't need the extra batteries of the V11 because I don't plan to do so many kilometers in a single trip.

And s18 aestethic was way too better (for me)  :)

Anybody knows if gotway or ninebot are planning for suspentions too for the future? 

that's a fair opinion, nothing wrong choosing the s18 because of looks.  

whatever rocks your boat.  heh.

 

I just wish there was less comparison with the V11 in this topic,  even though I think the V11 is better,  I want to talk and read about the s18 here. 

besides, there really isn't any point to compare these two,  since no one (besides kuji and EUCO) has both and can put down any hard facts yet. 

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5 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

.....

Back on topic just not to be a hypocrite.. ;-). I was kind of surprised with the battery performance on the s18 impression videos so far.. While the 30ish mile range is not the best, i was expecting less with this setup.. Makes me look fwd to what new battery enhancements can bring in the future! Looking fwd to some more impressions after 250km and 1000km on this wheel. 

 

Yes, that was pretty impressive for the riding involved, I have a feeling a few will be reaching closer to 40.  Kingsong is good for range/Wh!

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two separate air dampers are absolutely stupid (I hope I don't have to explain why?) 

9 hours ago, Sen Zhan said:

why?

My guess is because it makes it more difficult to adjust the suspension on the V11. Also, if one side is adjusted even slightly differently, then this will put extra stress on the other part. It also means extra weight and extra manufacturing cost because you have 2 times the number of parts and connections. I'm only guessing here but hopefully @buell47will give us a fuller answer.

Edited by mike_bike_kite
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So word out of the West Coast is the S18 is made of paper mache.  It didn't get dropped that much and the shell panels simply disintegrated and popped out of place.  Not looking good for this wheel so far.... I might cancel my order or immediately sell it when I receive.  

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30 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

So word out of the West Coast is the S18 is made of paper mache.  It didn't get dropped that much and the shell panels simply disintegrated and popped out of place.  Not looking good for this wheel so far.... I might cancel my order or immediately sell it when I receive.  

If they used better body panels the weight difference between it and the v11 might disappear almost completely then you have a wheel that's the same weight as the v11 with a significantly smaller battery

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6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

two separate air dampers are absolutely stupid (I hope I don't have to explain why?) 

   16 hours ago,  Sen Zhan said: 

why?

My guess is because it makes it more difficult to adjust the suspension on the V11. Also, if one side is adjusted even slightly differently, then this will put extra stress on the other part. It also means extra weight and extra manufacturing cost because you have 2 times the number of parts and connections. I'm only guessing here but hopefully @buell47will give us a fuller answer.

I don’t think this needs to be worried,

because although there is only one air spring inside the bicycle fork, the other side is a damping system.

Compared to v11, the activities of the bicycle fork side are always out of sync and pulling each other, and  The effect of the slight air pressure difference on v11 is almost negligible

Edited by Sen Zhan
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53 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

If they used better body panels the weight difference between it and the v11 might disappear almost completely then you have a wheel that's the same weight as the v11 with a significantly smaller battery

V11 suspension is inferior, and i’m buying the KS for its look (admittedly) not really its performance. If it sucks, I will gladly sell it day one. 

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15 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

it’s stupid to judge the entire experience of a thing by dissecting tiny pieces of it - and what we are doing here is exactly that. Yes it is obviously helpful to try to hypothesize what the experience is like based on individual components but without you personally riding both (production models) for a month I don’t trust a word you say on the subject. 

I think this is an interesting thing. Everyone guesses the product from the one-sided information and stands in line with personal needs, amplifies the one-sided information they get, attacks it or likes it, especially those disgusting emotions, they hope to destroy the other party,  Then let everyone stand with themselves,its interesting

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4 hours ago, Sen Zhan said:

I don’t think this needs to be worried,

because although there is only one air spring inside the bicycle fork, the other side is a damping system.

Compared to v11, the activities of the bicycle fork side are always out of sync and pulling each other, and  The effect of the slight air pressure difference on v11 is almost negligible

Am I misinformed? Does the V11 have only one air chamber on one side and on the other side the oil damper like a suspension fork? 

 

I thought there was a separate air damper on each side without the possibility to adjust the rebound.

 

mike_bike_kite has already recognized my concerns.

I don't assume that the mechanics of the V11 are as stable as a suspension fork and that air pressure differences are a burden and that it could also influence the riding behaviour.

It is a difference if left is air and right is oil, or both sides are air with different pressures. 

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2 hours ago, buell47 said:

Am I misinformed? Does the V11 have only one air chamber on one side and on the other side the oil damper like a suspension fork? 

 

I thought there was a separate air damper on each side without the possibility to adjust the rebound.

 

mike_bike_kite has already recognized my concerns.

I don't assume that the mechanics of the V11 are as stable as a suspension fork and that air pressure differences are a burden and that it could also influence the riding behaviour.

It is a difference if left is air and right is oil, or both sides are air with different pressures. 

You are right. In the information I know, there are also two air springs.

I mean that compared to the asymmetric structure in bicycles, the impact of the imbalance caused by the two air springs will be smaller. Compared to these, I  Pay more attention to the damping system inside

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3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I think no matter what suspension system you have, that you should think twice before using in snow mixed with gravel/salt.

It is likely to add much more care taking to the mechanics.

But your point about weatherproofing is main reason why I had a easy pick between the S18 vs V11. 

If I am to buy a KS wheel again this is something they need to address seriously. 

Note: @Jack King Song feel free to forward this to r&d at KS. It need to be a proper rating to handle all seasons and weather, hot/cold/sun/rain/snow/dust.

I don't consider V11, I'm choosing between S18 and 18XXL that works well in winter.

I don't intend to take care to the mechanics and I don't understand why do I need it. For me EUC should work well in snow, dirt, dust without any problems. But I wan't to have suspension too therefore I'm asking. As far as I understand there is no official information regarding this issue.

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43 minutes ago, ggldkm said:

I don't consider V11, I'm choosing between S18 and 18XXL that works well in winter.

I don't intend to take care to the mechanics and I don't understand why do I need it. For me EUC should work well in snow, dirt, dust without any problems. But I wan't to have suspension too therefore I'm asking. As far as I understand there is no official information regarding this issue.

He was referring to corrosion of metal parts resulting from salt, and the wear that would come with gravel and slush getting in the suspension. The S18 had more openly exposed parts subject to such corrosion. That doesn't mean the V11 is immune to them though... 

Weatherproofing looks fine in the S18, Kuji gave it a shower with no issues (IP5 rating) 

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4 hours ago, Unventor said:

I think no matter what suspension system you have, that you should think twice before using in snow mixed with gravel/salt.

It is likely to add much more care taking to the mechanics.

But your point about weatherproofing is main reason why I had a easy pick between the S18 vs V11. 

If I am to buy a KS wheel again this is something they need to address seriously. 

Note: @Jack King Song feel free to forward this to r&d at KS. It need to be a proper rating to handle all seasons and weather, hot/cold/sun/rain/snow/dust.

Prepping for winter is simple, I did this on all my wheels for winter riding; spray with lithium grease. 

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Thanks Mickey! It seems like the S18 is living up to its "sport/adventure" design concept, seems like a lot of fun. Probably pretty nice for my 16 mile round trip commute, too!
Aha, I saw in the comments that King Song has confirmed the change in shock, from the DNM AOY-36RC to the AO-38RC. It seems like it's a comparable shock in terms of quality, though I'm not sure what the difference in adjustability will be like without the second valve. As previously mentioned though, lots of mountain bike shocks use a design with a single valve. Again they say they will be fixing all the issues, so we'll see what happens 🤷‍♂️

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