EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Makes sense, if you completely disregard suspension. From what I’ve heard, it makes an awfully huge difference to the riding experience and comfort. Sorry, I expressed myself wrong. Of course any suspension is better than the non-existent one on the 16X. Of course the V11 has a lot of advantages over my 16X, I just mean that regardless of the ugly looks, the suspension doesn't meet my technical requirements, no matter if it's better than none. 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that so far the best wheel for off-road has been the MSX/MSP. V11 has the same tire that’s used on many MSXs, MSX style torque, more narrow and nimble, more comfortable riding posture, and almost the same battery capacity, albeit with noticeably deeper discharge limit. Do you really think that the suspension on the V11 will be so crappy that it would make an otherwise a seemingly good off-roader not suitable for off-road at all? I see zero sense in that view. I hope that with the above answer I have also answered this question? 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Remains to be seen I guess. I see no issue bigger than with the S18. I see it differently, because dirty sliding rails are never something good no matter where they are installed. The S18 mechanics, on the other hand, can be found and tested everywhere. I see a huge disadvantage. 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: Sure there is. Inmotion has planned an official after market add-on themselves. And I can show you a photo of my DIY when I get mine installed. After the wheel arrives of course. Somehow you can get something done, but guaranteed far from a good clean solution. The constant rubbing of the shell on my shoes when the spring compresses (when I squeeze it between my feet in various situations) would also get on my nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven89 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I'll clear myself. When I said I choose S18 over V11 because of I'm a city driver, I meant that I didn't need the extra batteries of the V11 because I don't plan to do so many kilometers in a single trip. And s18 aestethic was way too better (for me) Anybody knows if gotway or ninebot are planning for suspentions too for the future? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onizukagto Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, Steven89 said: I'll clear myself. When I said I choose S18 over V11 because of I'm a city driver, I meant that I didn't need the extra batteries of the V11 because I don't plan to do so many kilometers in a single trip. And s18 aestethic was way too better (for me) Anybody knows if gotway or ninebot are planning for suspentions too for the future? that's a fair opinion, nothing wrong choosing the s18 because of looks. whatever rocks your boat. heh. I just wish there was less comparison with the V11 in this topic, even though I think the V11 is better, I want to talk and read about the s18 here. besides, there really isn't any point to compare these two, since no one (besides kuji and EUCO) has both and can put down any hard facts yet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jimjam.nyc Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, onizukagto said: I just wish there was less comparison with the V11 in this topic, even though I think the V11 is better, I want to talk and read about the s18 here. besides, there really isn't any point to compare these two, since no one (besides kuji and EUCO) has both and can put down any hard facts yet. I was about to type a response saying something similar... The constant topics justifying why one EUC is "better" that the other is starting to get really annoying. It is truly taking away from any real discussion on these wheels.. If anyone feels the need to constantly bring up the same points over and over on why one is better... I suggest creating a comparison topic... The two specific topics for V11 and S18 have become over run with people justifying their purchases. Just a thought! I do understand the reason for comparisons and think its fun to debate.. but anyone looking to get actual real info, quickly gets bombarded with why (insert Brand Name X Here) is a better choice.. Weather we like it or not, we are all now very well aware of the differences between these two wheels and who likes which one more than the other... Sorry guys i had to say it. Back on topic just not to be a hypocrite.. ;-). I was kind of surprised with the battery performance on the s18 impression videos so far.. While the 30ish mile range is not the best, i was expecting less with this setup.. Makes me look fwd to what new battery enhancements can bring in the future! Looking fwd to some more impressions after 250km and 1000km on this wheel. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FreeRide Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Steven89 said: .... And s18 aestethic was way too better (for me) Anybody knows if gotway or ninebot are planning for suspentions too for the future? You don't need to worry about Gotway because they for sure will not have the aesthetic Edited June 25, 2020 by FreeRide 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said: ..... Back on topic just not to be a hypocrite.. ;-). I was kind of surprised with the battery performance on the s18 impression videos so far.. While the 30ish mile range is not the best, i was expecting less with this setup.. Makes me look fwd to what new battery enhancements can bring in the future! Looking fwd to some more impressions after 250km and 1000km on this wheel. Yes, that was pretty impressive for the riding involved, I have a feeling a few will be reaching closer to 40. Kingsong is good for range/Wh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I suspect the suspension will help with the range as it smoothes out the power peaks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) > two separate air dampers are absolutely stupid (I hope I don't have to explain why?) 9 hours ago, Sen Zhan said: why? My guess is because it makes it more difficult to adjust the suspension on the V11. Also, if one side is adjusted even slightly differently, then this will put extra stress on the other part. It also means extra weight and extra manufacturing cost because you have 2 times the number of parts and connections. I'm only guessing here but hopefully @buell47will give us a fuller answer. Edited June 24, 2020 by mike_bike_kite 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unventor Posted June 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 Right now all talk about which is better is in a way something that is a bit pointless imo. The S18 can do one thing. The V11 can do something else. This comes down to specs. It is very clear both companies had to compromise and choices are made different resulting in two very different wheels. Now I made my choice. Yet I do semi follow the S18 debate still. Right now I doubt I will shift my mind. But time and user feedback from long term is what holds my interest in S18 thread. This comes down to 1 major thing. When I am to buy a new wheel eventually how did customers mark their product and issues reported how did the manufactor respond to this. In other words how does suspension develop but also other features. I could see this would lead to new ideas of shell design in shape and materials too. We see some hint to this in the Veteran Sherman. There are many other things that I don't like about that wheel. But that is not the same as I dislike all of it. I do also thing we might be getting to a point where buying a wheel but not being able to test ride becomes more tricky. Just like buying a car. It isn't until you experience (test-ride/drive) it, that you sense if this fits your needs/wants and expectations. Diversity and r&d.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 So word out of the West Coast is the S18 is made of paper mache. It didn't get dropped that much and the shell panels simply disintegrated and popped out of place. Not looking good for this wheel so far.... I might cancel my order or immediately sell it when I receive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, Ben Kim said: So word out of the West Coast is the S18 is made of paper mache. It didn't get dropped that much and the shell panels simply disintegrated and popped out of place. Not looking good for this wheel so far.... I might cancel my order or immediately sell it when I receive. If they used better body panels the weight difference between it and the v11 might disappear almost completely then you have a wheel that's the same weight as the v11 with a significantly smaller battery 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwooooqq Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said: > two separate air dampers are absolutely stupid (I hope I don't have to explain why?) 16 hours ago, Sen Zhan said: why? My guess is because it makes it more difficult to adjust the suspension on the V11. Also, if one side is adjusted even slightly differently, then this will put extra stress on the other part. It also means extra weight and extra manufacturing cost because you have 2 times the number of parts and connections. I'm only guessing here but hopefully @buell47will give us a fuller answer. I don’t think this needs to be worried, because although there is only one air spring inside the bicycle fork, the other side is a damping system. Compared to v11, the activities of the bicycle fork side are always out of sync and pulling each other, and The effect of the slight air pressure difference on v11 is almost negligible Edited June 25, 2020 by Sen Zhan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 53 minutes ago, Heyzeus said: If they used better body panels the weight difference between it and the v11 might disappear almost completely then you have a wheel that's the same weight as the v11 with a significantly smaller battery V11 suspension is inferior, and i’m buying the KS for its look (admittedly) not really its performance. If it sucks, I will gladly sell it day one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EUChristian Posted June 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) The body panel issue was addressed 12 or so pages ago. Kingsong said they would provide better panels. I take them at their word and if I’m wrong I’ll think twice about buying from them again. I’ll just stick the damn things back on anyway. You should see what my KS16 looks like now that I beat the damn thing to death. If it’s that bad then I have a feeling a universal remedy would be in order. As for battery - God bless those of you that ride 40 miles a clip but I never do so that’s not relevant. As many have said the V11 vs S18 debate - where the very same points are made redundantly - is tired. it’s actually just an INMOTION vs Kingsong debate and most wont admit that although it’s patently obvious to anyone paying attention. I got involved early too because fandom is powerful. I think the true objective observers might be choosing one or the other but the are not emphatically proclaiming their virtue in purchasing one. Frankly I don’t understand why people are trying to compare two products that are subjectively different from a riding standpoint just because one of the components (suspension) is the same. The complete riding experience will be different on each machine and the sum of the parts might be greater that one piece. So I order an S18. Perhaps I would have liked the V11 more. Perhaps just because my suspension is somehow “scientifically” superior the overall riding experience could be better on the V11 and without riding one I’d never know? You see I don’t care about the individual parts, I care about the feeling the machine gives and the joy from learning to master it. Would you all agree that just because a design is technically “mechanically” inferior the riding experience could be better? Perhaps mushy is better than super responsive suspension - who am I to say? The thing is just a digital file right now to most of us. I’ve never ridden either so I certainly won’t cling to my opinion as if God himself had told me the answer... it’s stupid to judge the entire experience of a thing by dissecting tiny pieces of it - and what we are doing here is exactly that. Yes it is obviously helpful to try to hypothesize what the experience is like based on individual components but without you personally riding both (production models) for a month I don’t trust a word you say on the subject. Edited June 25, 2020 by EUChristian 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwooooqq Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, EUChristian said: it’s stupid to judge the entire experience of a thing by dissecting tiny pieces of it - and what we are doing here is exactly that. Yes it is obviously helpful to try to hypothesize what the experience is like based on individual components but without you personally riding both (production models) for a month I don’t trust a word you say on the subject. I think this is an interesting thing. Everyone guesses the product from the one-sided information and stands in line with personal needs, amplifies the one-sided information they get, attacks it or likes it, especially those disgusting emotions, they hope to destroy the other party, Then let everyone stand with themselves,its interesting 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Sen Zhan said: I don’t think this needs to be worried, because although there is only one air spring inside the bicycle fork, the other side is a damping system. Compared to v11, the activities of the bicycle fork side are always out of sync and pulling each other, and The effect of the slight air pressure difference on v11 is almost negligible Am I misinformed? Does the V11 have only one air chamber on one side and on the other side the oil damper like a suspension fork? I thought there was a separate air damper on each side without the possibility to adjust the rebound. mike_bike_kite has already recognized my concerns. I don't assume that the mechanics of the V11 are as stable as a suspension fork and that air pressure differences are a burden and that it could also influence the riding behaviour. It is a difference if left is air and right is oil, or both sides are air with different pressures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggldkm Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Is S18 ready for winter? I think it will be covered in snow and snow will be inside and it should have water resistance. What do you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwooooqq Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 hours ago, buell47 said: Am I misinformed? Does the V11 have only one air chamber on one side and on the other side the oil damper like a suspension fork? I thought there was a separate air damper on each side without the possibility to adjust the rebound. mike_bike_kite has already recognized my concerns. I don't assume that the mechanics of the V11 are as stable as a suspension fork and that air pressure differences are a burden and that it could also influence the riding behaviour. It is a difference if left is air and right is oil, or both sides are air with different pressures. You are right. In the information I know, there are also two air springs. I mean that compared to the asymmetric structure in bicycles, the impact of the imbalance caused by the two air springs will be smaller. Compared to these, I Pay more attention to the damping system inside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unventor Posted June 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, ggldkm said: Is S18 ready for winter? I think it will be covered in snow and snow will be inside and it should have water resistance. What do you think? I think no matter what suspension system you have, that you should think twice before using in snow mixed with gravel/salt. It is likely to add much more care taking to the mechanics. But your point about weatherproofing is main reason why I had a easy pick between the S18 vs V11. If I am to buy a KS wheel again this is something they need to address seriously. Note: @Jack King Song feel free to forward this to r&d at KS. It need to be a proper rating to handle all seasons and weather, hot/cold/sun/rain/snow/dust. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggldkm Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Unventor said: I think no matter what suspension system you have, that you should think twice before using in snow mixed with gravel/salt. It is likely to add much more care taking to the mechanics. But your point about weatherproofing is main reason why I had a easy pick between the S18 vs V11. If I am to buy a KS wheel again this is something they need to address seriously. Note: @Jack King Song feel free to forward this to r&d at KS. It need to be a proper rating to handle all seasons and weather, hot/cold/sun/rain/snow/dust. I don't consider V11, I'm choosing between S18 and 18XXL that works well in winter. I don't intend to take care to the mechanics and I don't understand why do I need it. For me EUC should work well in snow, dirt, dust without any problems. But I wan't to have suspension too therefore I'm asking. As far as I understand there is no official information regarding this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 43 minutes ago, ggldkm said: I don't consider V11, I'm choosing between S18 and 18XXL that works well in winter. I don't intend to take care to the mechanics and I don't understand why do I need it. For me EUC should work well in snow, dirt, dust without any problems. But I wan't to have suspension too therefore I'm asking. As far as I understand there is no official information regarding this issue. He was referring to corrosion of metal parts resulting from salt, and the wear that would come with gravel and slush getting in the suspension. The S18 had more openly exposed parts subject to such corrosion. That doesn't mean the V11 is immune to them though... Weatherproofing looks fine in the S18, Kuji gave it a shower with no issues (IP5 rating) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Unventor said: I think no matter what suspension system you have, that you should think twice before using in snow mixed with gravel/salt. It is likely to add much more care taking to the mechanics. But your point about weatherproofing is main reason why I had a easy pick between the S18 vs V11. If I am to buy a KS wheel again this is something they need to address seriously. Note: @Jack King Song feel free to forward this to r&d at KS. It need to be a proper rating to handle all seasons and weather, hot/cold/sun/rain/snow/dust. Prepping for winter is simple, I did this on all my wheels for winter riding; spray with lithium grease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post evX_Mick Posted June 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2020 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfoxdude Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Thanks Mickey! It seems like the S18 is living up to its "sport/adventure" design concept, seems like a lot of fun. Probably pretty nice for my 16 mile round trip commute, too! Aha, I saw in the comments that King Song has confirmed the change in shock, from the DNM AOY-36RC to the AO-38RC. It seems like it's a comparable shock in terms of quality, though I'm not sure what the difference in adjustability will be like without the second valve. As previously mentioned though, lots of mountain bike shocks use a design with a single valve. Again they say they will be fixing all the issues, so we'll see what happens 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Great review Mickey. Thank you. Excellent video quality as always Hopefully you have some other suspension wheel reviews coming:)) Anyways, thanks again. Your productions are appreciated! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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