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King Song S18 Discussion


Phong Vu

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17 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

True ....... But are you guys going to stop saying mileage when you mean......... kilometereage? 

Hehe, good point, we do in fact say "kilometrage" in metric language, but in English we have to do in Rome what romans do (or something like that)
I'd vote for "range", in French we also use "autonomie".

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1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

True ....... But are you guys going to stop saying mileage when you mean......... kilometereage? 

And while we’re at it, we probably should stop measuring tire sizes (and EUC’s) in inches as well... although EUC tires are more logical than car tires where the width is measured in imperial as well

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12 minutes ago, FinRider said:

And while we’re at it, we probably should stop measuring tire sizes (and EUC’s) in inches as well

I have a bicycle with 700x40 tire. Metric sizes are already there, just need to start using it.

Edited by B08AH
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3 hours ago, null said:

I've noticed US Americans are adapting a bit to metric regarding EUCs.
You can see it from the use of "kph" which is a direct translation of "mph".

This is not a very good way of shortening it, because it skips the unit: Meter.
kph is Kilo (1000) Per Hour.
1000 what per hour? Doesn't say.

kph have been used before, mainly by non metric countries, but that doesn't make it a good habit.
The EU, home of metric, uses km/h. kmh is better than kph if you want short. Anything but leaving out the main unit..

</2c rambling>

hmmm? kilometre is a word.. kph means kilometres per hour

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12 minutes ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

I am kind of disappointed with the s18 reviews, I understand that KS never has a good 1st batch of any wheel but I feel they did no real life testing themselves before the unveiled the wheel. 
Pads fall off, shock is awkward to pump, tire rubs on the fender because the shock is in the way, and the tilt back is obviously not working properly among other issues I’m sure. 
These are all problems they should of addressed before they even announced the s18. 
Sad they pushed it out early to steal Inmotion’s thunder, could of been a way better wheel if they actually put the time in

This is just how chinese companies operate. It is the same in the 3D printing community. Where I personally draw the line is if there are things missing that compromise the safety of the user.

An example from the 3D printing community is a certain printer (which I will not name) that did not have thermal runaway protection. Malfunctions ended up burning someones house down.

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35 minutes ago, davinche said:

This is just how chinese companies operate. It is the same in the 3D printing community. Where I personally draw the line is if there are things missing that compromise the safety of the user.

An example from the 3D printing community is a certain printer (which I will not name) that did not have thermal runaway protection. Malfunctions ended up burning someones house down.

i have an artillery sidewinder... which is on version 4 lmao... creality has like a million printers, even prusa makes iterative upgrades and fixes

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22 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I find it amazing how people are justifying the problems with the wheel, by claiming its a prototype. If you can't get the basics right (like tire rubbing, valve placement, panel glue) in the first stages of ideas, why should we assume it will get better? 

 

1 hour ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

Pads fall off, shock is awkward to pump, tire rubs on the fender because the shock is in the way, and the tilt back is obviously not working properly among other issues I’m sure. 
These are all problems they should of addressed before they even announced the s18. 

This is what happens when you develop a wheel with a Fox damper and replace it at the end with another cheap piece of junk, where the valve has a different angle and the design is also different and suddenly presses on the fender.

This is pure art of engineering. :rolleyes:

Maybe the problem with the fender will solve itself if the guy does not glue  weld the steel suspension elements together correctly. :efee612b4b:

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44 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

In SI notation (the units used for science) velocity is in meters per second, written as ms-1 or m/s. So it makes sense that a scientifically-literate population (taught SI in school science classes) would use km/h as the everyday (colloquial) notation for speed. KPH creates ambiguity, as it doesn't follow a defined set of rules for how to abbreviate units. Does the person writing mean kilometres per hour, or kilo parsecs per hour? If 'k' is short for kilometer in this context, why is "m" in miles per gallon, not mega meters? There's no rhyme or reason to these abbreviations.

To me, use of kph is one of many signs of low science literacy 

you aren't wrong, but its still a bit mean. 

At least they are trying?

It's not their fault that they are taught with ”low science”,  just have to adapt with what they can. 

the main thing is that we kinda know what they are talking about and most importantly, it won't catch on outside of the USA..... unless its one of the ”low science” country (North Korea? Afghanistan? ) :rolleyes:

 

anyway, it doesn't really affect the S18. it's not exactly a ”speed daemon” like a veteran, msx or v11. 

Edited by onizukagto
grammarly
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24 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

anyway, it doesn't really affect the S18. it's not exactly a ”speed daemon” like a veteran, msx or v11. 

The v11 is a ”speed daemon”? I thought it had the same max speed as the s18?

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2 hours ago, buell47 said:

 

This is what happens when you develop a wheel with a Fox damper and replace it at the end with another cheap piece of junk, where the valve has a different angle and the design is also different and suddenly presses on the fender.

That might explain it. So, if they now tweak the design for the cheaper shock, how upgradeable would it then be to the Fox shock (or others)? Hope they'll think it through.

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So I've just watched an unboxing by EUCO (Electric Unicycle Collective) and they mention that on the production model, the shock will only have one filling valve (???) so how would that work then? Surely it would take away a whole lot of custom tuning....or am I just not understanding how it will work? They have already unboxed a V11 and seem to know their stuff, so I'm guessing they know for sure about the shock? They also said that the customer models will ship with gold suspension mounts as seen in some promo videos. 

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11 minutes ago, Retrovertigo said:

So I've just watched an unboxing by EUCO (Electric Unicycle Collective) and they mention that on the production model, the shock will only have one filling valve (???) so how would that work then? Surely it would take away a whole lot of custom tuning....or am I just not understanding how it will work? They have already unboxed a V11 and seem to know their stuff, so I'm guessing they know for sure about the shock? They also said that the customer models will ship with gold suspension mounts as seen in some promo videos. 

I'll have to rewatch that as I didnt recall hearing that they will be changing the shock for production, as they already changed it from the fox... If they do go to single valve, I will cancel my order immediately. If i wanted such little control over shocks, I'd be more enthused towards the v11.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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3 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'll have to rewatch that as I didnt recall hearing that they will be changing the shock for production, as they already changed it from the fox... If they do go to single valve, I will cancel my order immediately. If i wanted such little control over shocks, I'd be more enthused towards the v11.

To be honest, although the S18 looks mighty sexy, the more I see of the V11, the more it looks like the "complete" package....apart from speed of course :)

By the way, I did PM you last week I think it was, but it says something about you not being in the conversation anymore? Just in case you thought I was completely ignoring you :) 

Start watching that S18 video from about 4:40 , that's where he talks about the gold colour and shock.

Edited by Retrovertigo
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2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'll have to rewatch that as I didnt recall hearing that they will be changing the shock for production, as they already changed it from the fox... If they do go to single valve, I will cancel my order immediately. If i wanted such little control over shocks, I'd be more enthused towards the v11.

I saw this mentioned in the King Song Telegram group, and somebody claimed it was gonna be the DNM AO-38RC, but I couldn't find the original source for any of the information, so take it with a grain of salt 🤷‍♂️

Either way, the AOY-36RC is like an $85 shock isn't it? The S18 just takes a standard sized mountain bike shock, and I imagine it would be pretty straight forward to swap the shock out to whatever tickles one the most. I think the S18 is gonna be a fun wheel for tinkerers, that's for sure.

Edit: Looking into different options on the market, it seems like the majority of the dual-chamber shocks only have one fill valve, and the shock handles balancing pressure between positive and negative chambers on its own. The lockout and response knobs control the flow restriction between the two chambers, compression vs rebound. I'm pretty sure the Fox shock they were testing with also has a single fill valve. I suppose that would be easier to setup, which might be more suitable for more people that don't want to tinker as much.

Edited by redfoxdude
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So the shock keeps changing the weight keeps changing, ks can't make an app worth shit and the tiltback is unknown. Quite frankly, the way KS has handled this release, My confidence in the wheel is already shot.  I can't feel good about supporting such tactics and bullshit. It may be the greatest wheel of all time, but I just feel like I'm being setup and strung along, only to become a damn guinea pig. I'll gladly pad the pockets of e-wheels, but my conviction of KS being able to fully test and complete a reliable wheel, was shaken when they boffed the 16x. It seems to me that not much has changed in the methods of how these companies are too quick to try and get that money, but VERY shady and unreliable with the information even THEY release.  I've enough to worry about, and paying $2k for a toy that also makes me worry.... hookers cost less and probably have a better reliability/safety rating.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Everyone who's not using Slime, Goop, or other working puncture repair / sealant. ;)

literally the only time ive ever had an euc flat was when i used slime/goop ironically...and never once was it able to repair a tire either lol... i actually think it degrades the tubes, either that or its a massive coincidence but it seems completely useless to me because i have only ever got a flat from tube wear or a split at the valve, never from a puncture of any kind im pretty sure unless my euc was dropped directly onto a nail pointing up nothing is going to penetrate the tire because like i said in 45k+ km of riding never had any sort of puncture

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6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

literally the only time ive ever had an euc flat was when i used slime/goop ironically...

What a luck! And hats off to your kilometrage! A few things stand out though:

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

and never once was it able to repair a tire either lol...

"Never once"... meaning the one single time you had a flat, which was caused by:

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i have only ever got a flat from tube wear or a split at the valve, never from a puncture of any kind

So nothing that any of the sealants even claim to be able to fix.

There are many riders having good experiences in (good quality) sealants repairing punctures as advertized. If you ride only on smooth pavement and in places reachable by a cab, sure the risk is much smaller, and you might be ok without. I don't, and Goop has saved my butt in numerous occasions. Which I only learned about when replacing the tire.

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9 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

What a luck! And hats off to your kilometrage! A few things stand out though:

"Never once"... meaning the one single time you had a flat, which was caused by:

So nothing that any of the sealants even claim to be able to fix.

There are many riders having good experiences in (good quality) sealants repairing punctures as advertized. If you ride only on smooth pavement and in places reachable by a cab, sure the risk is much smaller, and you might be ok without. I don't, and Goop has saved my butt in numerous occasions. Which I only learned about when replacing the tire.

yea of course i can only speak for myself, but what i was saying is that out of the i think five or six wheels that i had put slime and goop in when i heard it was all the rage, those all got flats either by splitting or wear, which led me to consider that maybe it actually degrades the tubes in some way because although i do buy and sell a lot of wheels, never has one had a flat that didnt have slime in it O.o could be pure coincidence though.. i know it is only meant for repairing small punctures but apparently im immune from that so i dont worry about it in the slightest... i do however think that it would be a smart thing to carry a small pump and tube of slime just in case you do get a puncture like a nail that you can pull out because in that situation slime could save you at least until you got home rather than having to walk the wheel or call a cab lol.. but i think if you put something in the tire as a preventative measure, goop is the better choice

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