INMOTION V11 (2020)

[DjPanJan]

On 5/24/2020 at 6:54 PM, TheBladeOfHades said:

Please get off is what the nice lady in the wheels says. 
please remember if they keep the same app for the v11, all audio messages are able to be changed to whatever you want. 
I recorded 2 seconds of silence for all speed warnings. 

(I say this one page up + video explaining all.) (edit) 33 page 3th post in this topic. 

It is important to me how the V11 will behave when overloaded.
1. If it's like Kingsong / Gotway beeps at 88% and picks up the tiltback.
or
2. Stupidly/supersafe like V10F where it says overload please get out and force you to stop with a huge tiltback and you have to stop and start again. Because after I stood twice in the middle of the intersection and the drivers were honking at me what I was doing as an idiot, I wanted to break the V10F with a hammer (or an engineer who invented it so stupidly/supersafe).

Because it doesn't matter if the V11 has the best parameters in the world, but if it behaves like this when overloaded, it's completely useless. Who has V10 / F definitely understands what I'm trying to say.

Here is a video that shows the tragic/supersafe behavior.

Spoiler: Now Kuji have this GET off(in last posted video 8 sec ) again this mean , whell stop ride like V10F? Punish if you overload for sec? 

Thisis about wheel how manage overload situation this is not about sounds in app please .. .. . ...

Why i care becasue i own V10F and maybee want V11 only if not do same thing stop you if you overload (not like kingsong or gotway beep and keep you ride becaue V10F not warn you just stop and tell GET OFF and this we hear now on V11) You understand this now? 

Edited May 26, 2020 by DjPanJan
supersafe added XD

[TheBladeOfHades]

Overloading is a rider problem not a wheel problem. The tilt is there to protect both rider and wheel, without it your riding a lithium powered firework display. 
I ride a v8 and 10 only overpowered once while racing my son from a dead stop 

Edited May 24, 2020 by TheBladeOfHades

[TheBladeOfHades]

To help a bit you can switch to comfort mode in the app, it will give you a little more play from a dead start 

[Phong Vu]

2 minutes ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

Overloading is a rider problem not a wheel problem. The tilt is there to protect both rider and wheel, without it your riding a lithium powered firework display. 
 

I think what @DjPanJan said is that the wheel forced you to get off the wheel (literally) and turn off/on the wheel to make it functional again.
I think I remember that part from Kuji Rolls V10F review.

[Patton250]

Granted I really haven’t paid that much attention to inmotion mostly because I own GW and KS. However I’ve never heard of anything you guys are talking about before. How in the world do you do something to this wheel that will literally make it slow down to a stop and make you get off and restart it? I have never heard of this. How do you make that happen? 

[Dave Wood]

26 minutes ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

Overloading is a rider problem not a wheel problem. The tilt is there to protect both rider and wheel, without it your riding a lithium powered firework display. 
I ride a v8 and 10 only overpowered once while racing my son from a dead stop 

BINGO

[TheBladeOfHades]

Safety feature to not overpower the control board on your wheel. A limit on the power you can draw from the battery for acceleration. 
 

[DjPanJan]

15 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Granted I really haven’t paid that much attention to inmotion mostly because I own GW and KS. However I’ve never heard of anything you guys are talking about before. How in the world do you do something to this wheel that will literally make it slow down to a stop and make you get off and restart it? I have never heard of this. How do you make that happen? 

yes this is what i experience 2 times in 2 hours ride.To avoid i monitor on smartwatch current A and when exceed 32A instantly(phone and watch start vibrate) i just stop pushing/deacereate and overload please get off not hapend.If you forgot just 3 second over 30 A triggers it. Maybee lighter riders never experience this or people who ride slowly/supersafe and not ride on road with cars etc. Is nicely see on kuji video i post in this topic. I just hope V11 not have this and behave like others brands. 

@Kuji Rolls can you please tell if V11 do same things like V10F on linked video or is like gotway kingsong style. I hope not because V11 now have 12 mosfets instead of (6 in V10F). I just need this confirmation/information before potential buy product.

Lastime i post this video:  

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by DjPanJan

[Phong Vu]

I think there are multiple ways to solve a problem.
Agreed that safety feature is importance.

• Till back when overpower <- ok
• Force the wheel to slow down to a safe speed <- ok
• Force the get off and reset the wheel <- wtf?

Anybody here still remember when Steve Jobs once said iPhone bad signal is because people hold the phone the wrong way?

[Jon Stern]

If this feature cuts in just before a fuse or a MOSFET is about to blow, then it's preferable to either of those occurring. Both of which would require you to stop and start again, with a big delay in the middle!

[davinche]

38 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

I think there are multiple ways to solve a problem.
Agreed that safety feature is importance.

• Till back when overpower <- ok
• Force the wheel to slow down to a safe speed <- ok
• Force the get off and reset the wheel <- wtf?

Anybody here still remember when Steve Jobs once said iPhone bad signal is because people hold the phone the wrong way?

How exactly are the three different?

How does a wheel "force you to slow down to a safe speed" or "force the get off" without tiltback?

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, DjPanJan said:

It is important to me how the V11 will behave when overloaded.

I believe in another post you said you weighed 120Kg. That's at the very limit of what the V10 will carry. Obviously if you then add your riding gear to your weight then you could easily go beyond what your wheel is capable of. It seems a bit wrong to complain about a wheels behaviour when you're beyond it's weight limit. The V11 also has the same 120Kg limit so, if you're looking at buying a new wheel, why not buy one that's actually suited for your weight (like a Gotway Nikola) or perhaps use this as an incentive to just lose some weight

[Phong Vu]

43 minutes ago, davinche said:

How exactly are the three different?

How does a wheel "force you to slow down to a safe speed" or "force the get off" without tiltback?

Sorry for my bad English.
Each of those not a separate solution, what I meant is I'm ok with first 2 behaviors, and I'm not with the last.

I don't have a V10, so I don't know, but during a year riding V8, I never got the force get off, just till back slow down.
And I know I gonna be mad if they force me to get off middle of the street.

[Nic]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I believe in another post you said you weighed 120Kg. That's at the very limit of what the V10 will carry. Obviously if you then add your riding gear to your weight then you could easily go beyond what your wheel is capable of. It seems a bit wrong to complain about a wheels behaviour when you're beyond it's weight limit. The V11 also has the same 120Kg limit so, if you're looking at buying a new wheel, why not buy one that's actually suited for your weight (like a Gotway Nikola) or perhaps use this as an incentive to just lose some weight

It sounds like he likes to ride at the limit of his wheel and would prefer to get a warning and back off a little before pushing harder again, but he is unable to do this when the wheel forces him to stop and reset (probably gives the mosfets a chance to cool down a bit). That sounds to me like the wheel is behaving in a very safe way as you are not supposed to ride it at its limits. If you want to go faster, then get a faster wheel and Darwin will take care of the rest.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Nic

[AtlasP]

So now we know that already the V11 in its current state is faster than any production King Song wheel (because of KS's confirmed speed overreporting), and they're talking about boosting the speed another 5 km/h.

Also if Kuji didn't know, you can get a higher top speed (closer to its listed max speed) on an InMotion wheel by approaching it more gradually versus throwing your weight into it like that. Which is exactly as it should be. The throttling is more aggressive based on the aggressiveness of your *acceleration* as you approach top speed, not just based on top speed with a fixed margin. So the faster you approach the top speed, the earlier it will throttle you based on that acceleration. As an analogy, it's like a good VR guardian/chaperone system--if you're moving slowly you can get closer to the boundary before it triggers, but if you're moving faster the boundary will trigger sooner/from further away. The point is to stop you from crossing a certain threshold, which has to start sooner the faster you are accelerating in order to be effective.

Edit: I reposted this in the comments of Kuji's video and he responded to confirm that he misspoke--his was an acceleration test, *not* a speed test.

Edited May 25, 2020 by AtlasP

[TheBladeOfHades]

Very true 

I often hit 47-48 kph on my v10 just riding normal 

[AtlasP]

43 minutes ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

I often hit 47-48 kph on my v10 just riding normal 

Impossible, and not at all what I was saying. I wasn't saying you can exceed its listed maximum, I was saying you can get closer to the listed maximum based on rate of acceleration.

[Edit: I was referring to stock firmware/settings. I know nothing about hacked firmwares or using third-party software to push limits higher than manufacturer specs. Either way that whole subject is tangent to the point I was making about getting a different throttled top speed depending on rate of acceleration.]

Edited May 24, 2020 by AtlasP

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

looks like 28 mph is realistic max speed?
 

 

That is not what I read of this at all. 

If you push full force on a wheel that might not be able to get the power needed from the battery then it would make sense it breaks off before bad things happen. 

It is the same problem with KS16X, people think the button line torque can be sustained at higher speeds and people don't seem to grasp they are pushing outside the design limits of the wheel. 

Again I personally think let GW make wheels you can du stupid things on and let's have other brands that can be safe to ride. 

People are clearly not understanding what is going on inside the wheel. They see a high watt rating and a big battery but not understanding the strain under such loads and just imagine hitting a pothole and expecting suspension to handle this for you.....because you feel you have a strong wheel and ...comfortable ride.

Comen sense still needs to be applied when riding an EUC.

I still think the Inmotion Global video showcase what the wherl can do and add value. 

It is not that I don't appreciate Kujis test but I would never ride my wheels like he do....like I never drive my car as a rally car race driver. I am perfectly fine people that have those cravings go buy GW and I (naively) hope they think not to do this in public traffic. Mainly because that kind of behaviour will hurt EUC community and our freedom to ride normal as a convenient transport. 

It is also why I strongly state there is no need to go faster than 50kmh on an EUC. That is my opinion. An EUC is not a car or MC. 

[TheBladeOfHades]

29 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Impossible, and not at all what I was saying. I wasn't saying you can exceed its listed maximum, I was saying you can get closer to the listed maximum based on rate of acceleration.

Listed max is 40 kph for a v10 which can be bumped to 45 with certain apps.

i often go past 45 because I creep up on the speed 

[DjPanJan]

5 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

looks like 28 mph is realistic max speed?
 

 

@Phong Vu i quote you because video i am sure you understand my point of view. And thank you for trying help others understand my post. 👍🏻

 

Fact: 1. The V10F is still a flagship inmotion and behaves in such a way that it forces you to stop in case of overload.

Fact: 2. On Kuji the video above this post is clearly heard in 8 second video please get OFF! Is not please deacelerate please slow down is please get OFF!

Fact: 3. Neither Gotway nor Kingsong will force you to stop.

Fact: 4 Throughout the history of the kuji channel, it has never happened that a unicycle forced you to stop none during the acceleration test. V10F only (inmotion)

Fact: 5 The higher the weight the more often it happens it's logical I agree but that doesn't mean it's okay.

Speculation:

Because PLEASE GET OFF can be heard in the 8sec video, I think the same mechanism is used for V11. So imagine that the place where this test is at the intersection is the first in a series of cars accelerating and after 52 meters in traffic V11 tells him PLEASE GET OFF and for another 5 meters will force you to stop and you need push on/off or press the lift sensor and jump back on V11 and continue. You understand me there you can die while you revive your inmotion you all cars in traffic will go around honking at you and threatening you. This is life not a fairy tale on bike paths. God, do you understand what nonsense is? Therefore, I would like to know if I really have to go OFF after V11 GET OFF or just slow down as on everything else in this price level.

[Nic]

7 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

Fact: 1. The V10F is still a flagship inmotion and behaves in such a way that it forces you to stop in case of overload.

Fact: 2. On Kuji the video above this post is clearly heard in 8 second video please get OFF! Is not please deacelerate please slow down is please get OFF!

Fact: 3. Neither Gotway nor Kingsong will force you to stop.

Fact: 4 Throughout the history of the kuji channel, it has never happened that a unicycle forced you to stop none during the acceleration test. V10F only (inmotion)

Fact: 5 The higher the weight the more often it happens it's logical I agree but that doesn't mean it's okay.

Speculation:

Because PLEASE GET OFF can be heard in the 8sec video, I think the same mechanism is used for V11. So imagine that the place where this test is at the intersection is the first in a series of cars accelerating and after 52 meters in traffic V11 tells him PLEASE GET OFF and for another 5 meters will force you to stop and you need push on/off or press the lift sensor and jump back on V11 and continue. You understand me there you can die while you revive your inmotion you all cars in traffic will go around honking at you and threatening you. This is life not a fairy tale on bike paths. God, do you understand what nonsense is? Therefore, I would like to know if I really have to go OFF after V11 GET OFF or just slow down as on everything else in this price level.

I can see why this might be a problem as you explained it pretty well. Is it possible to set the speed limit a little lower so you get a warning instead of overload? I am just speculating here as I don't know how these behaviours are set up.

[Unventor]

26 minutes ago, Nic said:

I can see why this might be a problem as you explained it pretty well. Is it possible to set the speed limit a little lower so you get a warning instead of overload? I am just speculating here as I don't know how these behaviours are set up.

The point is you are riding in traffic and you show never ride as to push the limit of your wheel. The lean in to accelerate is not normal way of riding. You should not ride in traffic as if it is a dragrace. There is a time and place for everything. 

If you don't respect that then you will get into trouble some day @DjPanJan and at the weight you said you are at then you should consider this even more.

Overpower of a wheel is a safety mechanism that only the rider resulted. It is not a failure of a wheel. Thinking you can ride on still doing this will end you up in a bad situation at some point. 

And none is forcing you to buy an Inmotion wheel either @DjPanJan. From your posts I simply don't understand why you are looking at anything but GW.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, davinche said:

How exactly are the three different?

How does a wheel "force you to slow down to a safe speed" or "force the get off" without tiltback?

On the three instances, all tilt-back responses from the wheel are ok and expected. Having to stop and reboot is neither.

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

It seems a bit wrong to complain about a wheels behaviour when you're beyond it's weight limit.

Can of worms. The max payload should not launch a planned unsafe or unexpected behavior from the wheel. Early tilt-back, sure. Premature wear, possibly. Broken pedals if curb jumping, unfortunately. Causing a reboot mid-ride, absolutely not.

The wheel does not and can not know the rider’s weight. A 140kg rider accelerating on flat ground and a 120kg rider accelerating on a smallish incline behave identically to the wheel’s firmware.

 The MSX has a payload of 100kg. Riders between 100 and 120kg should then choose the 160Wh V5 instead to have a safer wheel?

 The safety that Inmotion and KS pride themselves over, is that when any parameter of the wheel’s safe operation is exceeded, it will safely guide the situation back within the limits. If exceeding any limit causes the wheel to behave unexpectedly, it’s not safe behavior. A forced stop is only expected from overheating and a completely empty battery. From acceleration, absolutely not.

 If the V11 forces a reboot whenever I exceed its power limits on very short but steep off-road inclines at below walking speed, I will soon have a V11 for sale.

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Also if Kuji didn't know, you can get a higher top speed (closer to its listed max speed) on an InMotion wheel by approaching it more gradually versus throwing your weight into it like that. Which is exactly as it should be.

I agree. The topic of Kuji’s video wasn’t exactly correct, and he did comment that it was more of an acceleration test than an actual speed test.

27 minutes ago, Nic said:

Is it possible to set the speed limit a little lower so you get a warning instead of overload?

If the overload is really a power based overload, it is independent of speed so a lower speed threshold wouldn’t help.

[DjPanJan]

17 minutes ago, Unventor said:

From your posts I simply don't understand why you are looking at anything but GW.

Not quite. I would like to replace the V10F with a V11. And use V11 where V10F so in worse weather and for slow driving up to 25km/h.

For everything else, I have a KS16X. If I had already learned from the day that V11 does the same thing, it stops me and does not beep like ks16x. So I don't have to pre-order.

I'm sorry that the video is not 10 seconds longer and I would see if he had to stop forcibly or just drove on like on other EUCs such as KS16x, KS18L, MSX / P etc.

For me, 27 Kg is nothing due to my weight. 1500wh battery to almost as much as 16x (but it discharges more).

Larger wheel 18 and shock absorbers good offer. I don't use music or RGB on V10F on 16X yes. Simply put, the ability of the euc to beep in the case of a beginning overlean without having to stop is essential to me.

@mrelwood Well said 👍🏻🙏🏻

[Nic]

21 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

If the overload is really a power based overload, it is independent of speed so a lower speed threshold wouldn’t help.

In that case the V11 has a lot more torque than the V10F, so he will be less likely to overload it.

Alternatively, he can eat less popcorn.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Nic