Popular Post Planemo Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, mrelwood said: As much as I hate to leave things with so many misunderstandings I agree bud, it's a shame as I too hate to leave questions unanswered but some people add a little tetchiness when trying to explain things which is sometimes seen as aggressiveness (although I'm sure it isn't intended). It's also fair to bring up and discuss aspects of suspension design though, but I appreciate that it probably needs it's own thread. In any event, suspension wheels are the way forward, and both of these offerings are awesome in their own way. I am sure it will filter down to *all* wheels at some point, which is when I will really take notice! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, Planemo said: It's also fair to bring up and discuss aspects of suspension design though, but I appreciate that it probably needs it's own thread. In any event, suspension wheels are the way forward, and both of these offerings are awesome in their own way. I agree with you on this one. Just as tire discussion and tire pressure tip/help is a big subject and that is always a little different to each rider, I am sure this will be even more with susspention. And now you have 2 vaiables to play around or mess up with. But I think this will be similar to how people buy bicycles. Some buy it with full susspension, some with one wheel suspended and some the old fassion style. it all comes down to needs/wants/extra and cost and maintinance. I think also that @UniVehje put it nicely. i likewise choose to buy a susspention model, but my choice on the V11 is due to (for some silly things, not listed here in prioritized order) headlight, stand, more closed bodyshell (very big part of my choice), higher consideration to IP rating, the longer development time (*i will get back to this) bigger battery (i don't need it for 80% of rides i do, but i want it),. * now IM have looked at this before V10 series, dropped it, due to comsumer responce, picked it back up and worked on it for 2 years+. KS triedd to cut corners "lending" design ideas and lost out in court and was forced to start over. This might be good or bad I can't tell. Ijust can't. BUT looking at my KS16X and how that had last minute changes and the issues we have seen people having, I expect the can come issues with a rushed design from KS again. I think @Kuji Rolls said it nicely in on of the first teaser videos of the S18, something like Quote it is nice but it is not yet finished. There is still work to be done. But it is nice. But more of less all of the above has slipped out of dicussion due to looks and spung/unspung marlarky (imho). I think your post @UniVehje just couldn't be more right, at least to what drove my decission to put my money where my mouth is and pre-order the V11. It might be KS will supprise me but they will not dissapoint me again. One this I just have to eat my hat and (hold your horses) give @Marty Backe credit for a long term debate of build quality. I just don't view KS in the same light anymore. I like my KS16X in many regards, but build quality isn't on that list. I have my hopes up for IM. I might be dissapointed, but who knows. The risk of 1st batch is always there. Yet I took that choice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DjPanJan Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 It is important to me how the V11 will behave when overloaded. 1. If it's like Kingsong / Gotway beeps at 88% and picks up the tiltback. or 2. Stupidly like V10F where it says overload please get out and force you to stop with a huge tiltback and you have to stop and start again. Because after I stood twice in the middle of the intersection and the drivers were honking at me what I was doing as an idiot, I wanted to break the V10F with a hammer (or an engineer who invented it so stupidly). Because it doesn't matter if the V11 has the best parameters in the world, but if it behaves like this when overloaded, it's completely useless. Who has V10 / F definitely understands what I'm trying to say. Here is a video that shows the tragic behavior. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, DjPanJan said: It is important to me how the V11 will behave when overloaded. 1. If it's like Kingsong / Gotway beeps at 88% and picks up the tiltback. or 2. Stupidly like V10F where it says overload please get out and force you to stop with a huge tiltback and you have to stop and start again. Because after I stood twice in the middle of the intersection and the drivers were honking at me what I was doing as an idiot, I wanted to break the V10F with a hammer (or an engineer who invented it so stupidly). Because it doesn't matter if the V11 has the best parameters in the world, but if it behaves like this when overloaded, it's completely useless. Who has V10 / F definitely understands what I'm trying to say. Here is a video that shows the tragic behavior. This is one of the things they learned that the cooloing of mosfets and electronics is important ad they have addressed this.It is also why they pressented how much effect they can handle susstained. That was the point of where V10 series fel short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 17 hours ago, Planemo said: No amount of adjustment can 'dial out' unsprung mass. By adjusting Sag and Recovery speed, i think you could say you are dialing out the unsprung weight, but Recovery also affects other aspects, so it's not an isolated tuning and of course not absolute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, FreeRide said: By adjusting Sag and Recovery speed, i think you could say you are dialing out the unsprung weight, but Recovery also affects other aspects, so it's not an isolated tuning and of course not absolute. Playing with sag will have zero effect on reducing the effects of unsprung weight. You might, just might be able to take away a bit of the thump (in the ebike example) by zeroing compression and rebound damping but then you are removing a crucial aspect of why the suspension is there in the first place and it would seriously affect tracking during general riding. When I said 'you cant dial it out' I specifically meant you cant dial it out to any noticeable extent without it being so detrimental to the rest of the handling that you may as well not bother. Anyway it seems we need to take this matter to another thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Lets change the subject ... the V11 has the best lights on any EUC ever making it perfect for night rides. These lights have good visibility from the side and so will help keep you safe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, Nic said: Lets change the subject ... the V11 has the best lights on any EUC ever making it perfect for night rides. These lights have good visibility from the side and so will help keep you safe. You can’t possibly know that! They could be the worst ever or blind everyone or... New rule that many of us have already grasped: Always disagree with someone, no matter how mundane the subject. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, mrelwood said: You can’t possibly know that! They could be the worst ever or blind everyone or... New rule that many of us have already grasped: Always disagree with someone, no matter how mundane the subject. He can't...maybe. I can tell you right now he is 100% right. And yes I can't show you why. But this I know is beyond debate...It is the best . .... .... yet on any EUC to date. I would like to see the rear light too. But that I have not...oh now I kinda did a freudian slip. (You guys know I have been following and talking with IM. The details I can't share). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, mrelwood said: You can’t possibly know that! They could be the worst ever or blind everyone or... Yes, but they look nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wood Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 hours ago, DjPanJan said: It is important to me how the V11 will behave when overloaded. 1. If it's like Kingsong / Gotway beeps at 88% and picks up the tiltback. or 2. Stupidly like V10F where it says overload please get out and force you to stop with a huge tiltback and you have to stop and start again. Because after I stood twice in the middle of the intersection and the drivers were honking at me what I was doing as an idiot, I wanted to break the V10F with a hammer (or an engineer who invented it so stupidly). Because it doesn't matter if the V11 has the best parameters in the world, but if it behaves like this when overloaded, it's completely useless. Who has V10 / F definitely understands what I'm trying to say. Here is a video that shows the tragic behavior. Its a safety feature ffs..Maybe you'd just prefer it to just cutoff? personally iv never overpowered my v10 and im 15stone and 6.4ft so im actually beginning to believe that those who constantly bash inmotions products just have some strange biases against them because their not KS or Gotway.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave Wood said: Its a safety feature ffs..Maybe you'd just prefer it to just cutoff? personally iv never overpowered my v10 and im 15stone and 6.4ft so im actually beginning to believe that those who constantly bash inmotions products just have some strange biases against them because their not KS or Gotway.. Well first build had issues. They did some firmware modifications but for people going on tails and steep climbs in hot areas could overpower it. I have not had that issue but it come down to how aggressive and near the limits you use the wheels. I do agree with you that it is better to get the overpower warning that getting a cutoff. I like my V10f but I also know I am not to ride it as a bank robber trying to escape the police. I am about 80-83kg but it has been cold weather here since I got it. Only one day near 20C degrees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjPanJan Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Safety............. Force stop you in traffic.. Supersafe(irony) . Im 120kg this is max limit v10f officialy allow. I just want be shure v11 not include this safety(irony) feature. Ks16x just beep and you slowdown or stop push. V10f no warn you just stop you.You must push on/off or push lift sensor to fix pedals again. This hapend no only "fast push" just longer not high incline you want overtake slow cyclist you overpower please get off. I know this is trigered when curent A is over 32A 3 sec this is trigger this safety(irony) feature. Why not just beep like all others competitors in same price range. V11 have 12 mosfet v10f only 6 i hope they include beeps not bully riders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wood Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Unventor said: Well first build had issues. They did some firmware modifications but for people going on tails and steep climbs in hot areas could overpower it. I have not had that issue but it come down to how aggressive and near the limits you use the wheels. I do agree with you that it is better to get the overpower warning that getting a cutoff. I like my V10f but I also know I am not to ride it as a bank robber trying to escape the police. I am about 80-83kg but it has been cold weather here since I got it. Only one day near 20C degrees. Im certainly not a top speed guy but i am pretty aggressive with acceleration probably due to my size and height i naturally just learn more, iv also never met a hill i can't climb and that includes offroad which i regularly ride with my dogs haha, i too am from a colder climate (UK) so maybe that's the contributing factor to those that apparently overpower it, or maybe it's just like i said originally. The v10s best feature is also its downside to some which is it's safety features. it all depends what you prioritize but for me id rather have a safe wheel more than anything else 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, DjPanJan said: Safety............. Force stop you in traffic.. Supersafe(irony) . Im 120kg this is max limit v10f officialy allow. I just want be shure v11 not include this safety(irony) feature. Ks16x just beep and you slowdown or stop push. V10f no warn you just stop you.You must push on/off or push lift sensor to fix pedals again. This hapend no only "fast push" just longer not high incline you want overtake slow cyclist you overpower please get off. I know this is trigered when curent A is over 32A 3 sec this is trigger this safety(irony) feature. Why not just beep like all others competitors in same price range. V11 have 12 mosfet v10f only 6 i hope they include beeps not bully riders. Yes it is a safety feature because that is the limitation of this wheel weither you like that or not. This is also why many here do not recommend the V10 series as most here ride their wheel harder and faster that 25kmh safe speed (that most brand has a factory speeds these day. Any faster at users own risk). I suggest you look at the launch presentation then you will see they have addressed this. But they are not building GW fast wheel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt_hectic Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: You can’t possibly know that! They could be the worst ever or blind everyone or... New rule that many of us have already grasped: Always disagree with someone, no matter how mundane the subject. I heard you can adjust angle of the beam in the app. If that's true it will be heaven on earth. (I had to tape half of my light on V10f). + tiltback and warning sound on V10f aren't a big issue to me. When you stand still, normally, it just holds it's max speed, which is ~36km/h and doesn't beep. Can't wait for my v11. I'm going back to the office in 2-3 weeks. I deadly need that wheel! Edited May 21, 2020 by kurt_hectic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Wood said: Its a safety feature ffs..Maybe you'd just prefer it to just cutoff? personally iv never overpowered my v10 and im 15stone and 6.4ft so im actually beginning to believe that those who constantly bash inmotions products just have some strange biases against them because their not KS or Gotway.. I've had two cutouts on my V8, and back then I weight 67 kg. One was an intentional, low-speed overlean test (stupid, I know...), the other was entirely unexpected, going up a steep hill. Zero warning. That's when I decided the wheel was unsafe (for me, my riding style and the hilly area where I lived) and upgraded to a KS18XL. Not saying it can't happen on my 18XL or 16X, just that I have enough safety margin to ride with peace of mind in accordance with my riding style and speed. IMO it isn't a matter of safe or unsafe wheels but of wheels that are safe for a person's specific needs and use. Having said that, the V8's max. weight rating is way overblown...there's no way on earth I'd recommend an 800W, 480Wh wheel to a 100 kg / 220 lb rider... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post redfoxdude Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 Now that's a light! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 hours ago, DjPanJan said: This video was created at that time where Youtubers thought that videos with that facial expression (wide open surprise mouth) got more views. I'd forgotten about that dark period in human history! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 54 minutes ago, redfoxdude said: Now that's a light! That is definitely the best front light on an EUC ... perfect dipped beam that won't dazzle oncoming traffic and very bright, wide and even beam. Looks like they might have designed it to comply with German STVZO regulations. Rear light is equally impressive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, redfoxdude said: Now that's a light! Not only is it bright but it is on the ground and not in the air. Now since you guys seen it now. I can say I seen pictures from evening-daylifht still that you could see this light cast area still. Now this is the first time I see the rear light in action. Look rather bright but not only that it is see partly from the side as I expected. So combining the headlight and rear light I still think you stand a good chance to be seen. I wear reflex material/bands too plus a blinking light on my torso both front and rear. Now it looks like a vehicle and not a disco show. I like it. A grownup transport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, DjPanJan said: Because it doesn't matter if the V11 has the best parameters in the world, but if it behaves like this when overloaded, it's completely useless. Who has V10 / F definitely understands what I'm trying to say. I have a V10F with over 1500 miles on it, regularly rode right at the beeps and in hot southeastern weather, and I never experienced that issue even once. I'm not sure if it's because of my lower personal weight (I'm only ~150lbs with clothes but without gear) or maybe because I have a later-produced model, but either way the ubiquity/inevitably of that problem is not as straightforward as claimed. (If I had to guess it's probably a combination of rider weight and ambient temperature, so a potential problem for the combination of heavier riders in warmer climates but not lighter ones and/or in cooler climates.) Honestly it is still the most comfortable and well-built wheel I ever owned, I just wished it went ~5+ mph faster. Edited May 21, 2020 by AtlasP 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stephen Posted May 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2020 Bloody hell this wheel looks powerfull also the suspension coming down stairs 👍👍👍👍 I like the V11 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted May 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, stephen said: Bloody hell this wheel looks powerfull also the suspension coming down stairs 👍👍👍👍 I like the V11 Blimey, the inclines from 1:50 forward look very steep! Oh the agony of waiting with all these teasers pouring in! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stephen Posted May 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Blimey, the inclines from 1:50 forward look very steep! Oh the agony of waiting with all these teasers pouring in! Must be a good motor with big magnets it looks steep and the pedals still look stiff not tilting forward much 👍, and going upstairs wow 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.