Popular Post AtlasP Posted May 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) Regarding Seba's stats, it's great to see such data laid bare. It illustrates how EUCs are perceived and utilized by the majority of casual riders in the same category as casual bicycle riding, in the teens/occasional low 20s mph, and limited to the environments where those speeds make sense (residential neighborhoods, bike paths, urban centers with lower speeds in between frequent intersections, etc). The 30+ mph street EUC riders are basically the EUC community's equivalent of spandex-clad sports bicyclists--a miniscule high-performance niche subgroup who bear little resemblance to the majority of riders. And then there's a group of enthusiasts somewhere in between those two extremes, which is likely the majority constituency of a forum such as this (a step above casual riders but topping out somewhere around the mid-to-upper 20s mph, longer ranges, etc). Edited October 21, 2020 by AtlasP 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Yes all the stats are very interesting, love data. However; what influences sales more, actual use or people's perceived use? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davinche Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 There's a clear elephant in the room: Why doesn't inmotion just offer more than one variant of the V11? Just like how Gotway have multiple variations of their MSX, Inmotion can have multiple variations of the V11. Clearly there is no "one size fits all" EUC given the amount of discussion we have. But back to why the "need" for a faster / more powerful EUC: I would say that I am one of those riders who don't go on 40 mile joy rides or travel faster than 25mph on average. But I still want an EUC capable of 35mph+. Bill Gates famously said: "640KB of memory ought to be enough for everybody". Clearly today's demands have exceeded that. So while I may be a 20mph rider right now, I might need 30mph later, or even 40. Just because I don't ride at those high speeds now, doesn't mean I don't want the option to. People just want options man... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 3 hours ago, davinche said: Bill Gates famously said: "640KB of memory ought to be enough for everybody". While it's not your main point, Bill Gates didn't say that. Like so many things that are treated as fact, it's a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 6 hours ago, davinche said: I would say that I am one of those riders who don't go on 40 mile joy rides or travel faster than 25mph on average. But I still want an EUC capable of 35mph+. Theres a lot to be said for this. Although I do tend to ride in the 30's, theres something incredibly reassuring about riding a big-batteried 100v wheel at 20mph. You just know its unshakable. Paticularly handy when say off road at 20mph - you just knows theres so much in reserve that you gotta do something mental to even think about overleaning it/getting a cutout. And 20mph is pretty much smack bang in the middle of the speed range, so the ideal speed for power delivery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 14 hours ago, AtlasP said: The V11 is about the same weight as several of the Nikola+ SKUs. (My 100v Nik+ is within 2 pounds of the advertised V11 weight.) Now yes the Nik+ is heavy, but that hasn't seemed to put a damper on the amount of positive coverage/endorsement it continues to get, especially from several of the top youtubers (including Marty and Mickey). So either someone believes that both the Nik+ and the V11 are too heavy (which is a fair decision based on your context), or else neither of them are, but people should remember the V11 is not some new weight category (which some people keep making it out to be). Good point. I probably should have said that "more weight would be a turn-off for the V11's target group". I don't think the V11 is targeted at the same group as the Nikola+... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, travsformation said: Good point. I probably should have said that "more weight would be a turn-off for the V11's target group". I don't think the V11 is targeted at the same group as the Nikola+... I thought less weight was very important when I got my V8 (first EUC). When I got my KS18L I found more weight helped it to be more stable in the open areas I ride at times. The KS16X was even more heavy. That isn't an issue to me as I ride the wheel and don't carry it. And when I have to lift it, it is only for a few steps. I rather it has the weight advertised and the battery power than if it is 3-4kg less and only half the range. Same goes I rather have 84V and the range than a 100V with 20% less range. I might not use the range full out. But it helps me staying clear of throttling and when it is cold to have the range I need. At winter time the temperature cuts range by 25-30% due to subzero temperature. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fbhb Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) We can finally expect to hear some first hand feedback from Kuji in the next week or two! Edited May 18, 2020 by fbhb 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave Wood Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, fbhb said: We can finally expect to hear some first hand feedback from Kuji in the next week or two! Let's just hope he wont be biased because of his partnership/affiliation with Kingong... V11 is a better looking wheel than i 1st thought , It definitely looks way nicer in real life than the rendered pictures about. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onizukagto Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, fbhb said: We can finally expect to hear some first hand feedback from Kuji in the next week or two! Woah! That headlight is much more larger then I thought it would be. Probably because the V11 seems slimmer then the renders? The comparisons between v the V11 to the V10/8 is striking! It's like comparing a proper touring bike with....toys Edited May 18, 2020 by onizukagto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 5 hours ago, onizukagto said: Woah! That headlight is much more larger then I thought it would be. Probably because the V11 seems slimmer then the renders? The comparisons between v the V11 to the V10/8 is striking! It's like comparing a proper touring bike with....toys Just you wait to see how that headlight performs. Let's say I have a feeling that this will set a new benchmark for wheels. Now since the rear light is curved partly and with this power the headlight has, I really don't think there is a need for side lights. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 6 hours ago, fbhb said: We can finally expect to hear some first hand feedback from Kuji in the next week or two! @mrelwood so what do you spot tire-wise? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mango Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 The V11 looks absolutely gorgeous when compared against the V10f which I also have. Looks as though its built like a tank so I imagine the ride will be magic-carpet squared. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fryman Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 Not sure how that front end is going to handle a crash. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, fryman said: Not sure how that front end is going to handle a crash. With the way the suspension works on the V11 I wonder how much force the floating part can take in a crash. I'm sure Kuji will test that for us 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, fryman said: Not sure how that front end is going to handle a crash. If you look closely, there seems to be a rubber bumper at the top of the wheel. And the light fixture is nicely recessed. I’m not worried, looks very sturdy so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted May 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Unventor said: @mrelwood so what do you spot tire-wise? It is after all the H-666 that I recommended! Everything points to the V11 matching my dream wheel on so many levels. The suspension working “better than expected” (by Kuji’s words) is exactly what I expected! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, mrelwood said: It is after all the H-666 that I recommended! Everything points to the V11 matching my dream wheel on so many levels. The suspension working “better than expected” (by Kuji’s words) is exactly what I expected! Where did he post this? I suspected all the talk about spung or unspung weight might not apply to a unicycle to same degree as on multi wheel vehicle. Also since IM has worked on this 2years+ they must have tested different variations too. Right now I would love to fast forward to August... Sorry doorbell...ahh a big heavy box 🤩 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Unventor said: I suspected all the talk about spung or unspung weight might not apply to a unicycle to same degree as on multi wheel vehicle. Why do you think there's an exception for EUC's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 50 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said: Why do you think there's an exception for EUC's? I don't know all the mechanics but all weight are on one wheel not shared between multiple contact points, so I would expect some weight would keep the wheel in ground contact. So together with tire and suspension parts both serve to cousin spike of impact. But if wheel is too light I would suspect it to be easier to bounce. But this is only speculation on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phong Vu Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Unventor said: I don't know all the mechanics but all weight are on one wheel not shared between multiple contact points, so I would expect some weight would keep the wheel in ground contact. So together with tire and suspension parts both serve to cousin spike of impact. But if wheel is too light I would suspect it to be easier to bounce. But this is only speculation on my part. Unstrung Weight is all bad, so the lower the better. However, the different unstrung weight between V11 vs S18 is not that dramatic, 10 kg compare to rider weight which gonna be 80kg - 100kg. So I don't expect majority of us to feel anything. Just wonder if lightweight riders (50 kg, 60 kg) gonna feel the different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 You want the unsprung weight to be as light as possible because lighter objects accelerate faster, so in the case of an EUC wheel it can track the contours of the ground better if it doesn't have all the other bits attached to it and instead has those bits suspended on the other end of the suspension. Whether it makes much difference in the case of V11/S18 would depend on the terrain it is being used on and the speed over that terrain. We will have to wait for the reviews to find out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted May 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Unventor said: Where did he post this? He replied to a comment on his FB post. 5 hours ago, Unventor said: I suspected all the talk about spung or unspung weight might not apply to a unicycle to same degree as on multi wheel vehicle. I think it does, but people have just failed to apply the correct proportions. Lower unsprung weight will allow for a better grip on an uneven surface, since the suspension pushes the wheel back to the ground faster. But the difference is small, and it’s chased mainly when optimizing racing vehicles, where every nanosecond counts. I’d think the difference would have to be huge for it to be noticeable when cruising comfortably, on any vehicle. And the fact remains that the current unsprung weight of for example my EUC is about 130kg, ie 100%. 20kg is about infinite times better. I’m sure there are dozens of design parameters in a suspension alone that are ten or more times more important than unsprung weight. But those parameters are not known and can’t be compared. So we will desperately grasp at any little piece of information we do have, and disregard the fact that we hobbyists only recently learned a few tiny bits of info on a product that some of the leading EUC engineers in the world have been designing for more than two years. Daily. Proportions, everybody, proportions. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted May 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2020 My thoughts on the unsprung mass: Firstly, speed will have the biggest impact on the effect because it’s about mass accelerating faster to keep the tire down quicker. And the impact is not linear but rises in square, if I remember the physics correctly. Therefore the effect in sub 50 km/h speeds is probably not that great. Also, light weight wheels are sought after in race cars for a reason. Is that the same reason we should be after less unsprung mass in a unicycle? Here’s what Wikipedia says: Quote “A lighter wheel which readily rebounds from road bumps will have more grip and more constant grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are sought especially for high-performance applications. However, the lighter wheel will soak up less vibration. The irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the suspension and hence ride quality and road noise are worse.“ And Quote A beneficial effect of unsprung mass is that high frequency road irregularities, such as the gravel in an asphalt or concrete road surface, are isolated from the body more completely because the tires and springs act as separate filter stages, with the unsprung mass tending to uncouple them. I really don’t think we should compare the suspension on an electric unicycle directly with race cars or bikes. The benefit for us is very different, mostly about comfort. The idea of “less unsprung mass is alway better” might not translate to our application at our speeds directly. Likely many other design choices and settings have much larger effects. Secondly, I’ve just taken apart my 18XL for tire change and was again surprised by how heavy the motor is. It felt like the motor assembly, rim and tire were half the weight of the whole thing. The S18 already has a lot if unsprung mass, probably more than half the weight of the wheel. Adding batteries to that is not so big of a difference when compared to the weight of the motor and rider etc. I don’t think the differences reviewers will notice in suspensions come from this unsprung mass issue but rather from many other small differences. 8 hours ago, Unventor said: Where did he post this? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) I wished @Kuji Rolls would have posted a brief comment here, since I am not active on Facebook (due to my work). But I guess it doesn't hold as much interest as most follow Kuji anyway. Thanks for sharing @mrelwoodand @UniVehje Edited May 19, 2020 by Unventor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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