King Song S18 Discussion

[Lindsey]

13 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Hopefully it looks intimidating enough that the requests from strangers to ride it, will diminish. Cover it in mud and scratches and perhaps even more so..

@Nic too funny! But i bet they use a 'small' person for range. Imagine how tiny a small person would be, if THIS guy is considered average size. No wonder the stock pedals look like they are made for infants...

It's true that the electric wheel looks big...

I want to see how big it will be when I see it in person, and I want to ride it and run I wonder how the S18 of King Song,

which is equipped with a support, will feel. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Lindsey

[Phong Vu]

13 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

But i bet they use a 'small' person for range. Imagine how tiny a small person would be, if THIS guy is considered average size. No wonder the stock pedals look like they are made for infants...

Haha, I said the short guy like in the video is not rare, but surely he's not average.
He would consider short even in Southeast Asia.

Beijing has average height of 175.32 cm for men, so we could tell how big is the wheel based on Kuji's video. (I guess he is around 1m72 -> 1m75)

[fbhb]

Posted on Facebook by Nevin Tec-toyz, looks like a pretty normal sized wheel to me (we all know the guys that test the wheels over there are tiny!!!):

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by fbhb

[.....]

17 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

Haha, I said the short guy like in the video is not rare, but surely he's not average.
He would consider short even in Southeast Asia.

Beijing has average height of 175.32 cm for men, so we could tell how big is the wheel based on Kuji's video. (I guess he is around 1m72 -> 1m75)

Good to know. It seemed a normal sized wheel under Kuji, aside from the additional height because of suspension.  At 191cm  tall (what an odd measurement for me to use), maybe they should send me a wheel to stand next to, and it wont seem like its made for King Kong. Pedal to top pad height seems a little more than some other 18" wheels, but if  the top is below the knee, I see no problems. Much shorter than the guy in the pic  and it would be considered a built in seat. Too funny, they use a pint sized human to show how the handle gets taller. Umm... is that even a consideration for people of such stature?

@Lindsey     

I'd bet as long as they are tall enough to reach the pedal and have a little crotch clearance... midgets can ride a tall wheel too. I'm sure some little kid has some recently divorced parents and we'll see what a 12 yr old looks like on a tall $2k wheel. But mommy got me a go-cart...  Oh yeah, well I got you a new sks18!

Edited May 2, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Lindsey]

28 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Posted on Facebook by Nevin Tec-toyz, looks like a pretty normal sized wheel to me (we all know the guys that test the wheels over there are tiny!!!):

 

Yes, I just saw it on Facebook, too.

When I saw the video of Coozi, Coozi was not short, but King Song S18 looked a bit tall.

It looked about the size of a GoTway monster.

I think the rider on Facebook looks big and has an average height. So it looks good on you.

Thank you for sharing.

[Lindsey]

33 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Good to know. It seemed a normal sized wheel under Kuji, aside from the additional height because of suspension.  At 191cm  tall (what an odd measurement for me to use), maybe they should send me a wheel to stand next to, and it wont seem like its made for King Kong. Pedal to top pad height seems a little more than some other 18" wheels, but if  the top is below the knee, I see no problems. Much shorter than the guy in the pic  and it would be considered a built in seat. Too funny, they use a pint sized human to show how the handle gets taller. Umm... is that even a consideration for people of such stature?

@Lindsey     

I'd bet as long as they are tall enough to reach the pedal and have a little crotch clearance... midgets can ride a tall wheel too. I'm sure some little kid has some recently divorced parents and we'll see what a 12 yr old looks like on a tall $2k wheel. But mommy got me a go-cart...  Oh yeah, well I got you a new sks18!

Anyone who is short or tall can enjoy the electric wheel.

I have often seen Facebook videos of children riding electric wheels, wearing protective gear, and enjoying electric wheels under the supervision of adults. 

If you enjoy the electric wheel safely, I think it's a great personal vehicle in this era.

[Jon Stern]

45 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Posted on Facebook by Nevin Tec-toyz, looks like a pretty normal sized wheel to me (we all know the guys that test the wheels over there are tiny!!!):

So loving the cheesy, over-autotuned Chinese pop music! 

They love this kind of bland music in China. Soft ballads, safe pop. You've never hear the Chinese equivalent of the Sex Pistols. Doesn't meet the approval of the authorities. 

[Christophe Maziere]

I've dreamed wheel with suspension. Here it is. But like everybody, I really like this model, but range seems to be the problem. I guess it's hard to find space to add extra batteries inside, but if there is no XL model, nope for me ! Especially that a wheel with suspension will spend and use more energy . 

Does anybody know if the tire is tubeless ? And easy to change ? 
Have a good lockdown !!! 

[.....]

2 hours ago, Christophe Maziere said:

Especially that a wheel with suspension will spend and use more energy . 

 

Would you clarify this for me? I would beg to differ that if we are talking about motor energy, a smoother ride would be an increase in efficiency. More energy of the road transmitted to the suspension, perhaps. More energy of the road in terms of contact patch, maybe. I'm not convinced that the increased rolling patch duration of a suspension wheel, would use more energy than the same wheel having to bounce across the contact patch. Wouldnt the changes in forces from the excessive bounce, use more motor energy than that of a smoother ride? Would the smoothing of a suspension wheel, also translate into less rider feedback being transmitted to the motor, as increased rough ride also increases our micromanagement of the power itself?

Keep in mind, the wheel isnt heavier with suspension (on this model), so that is less a factor than tire width, which is a standardish 3" wide 18" tall. Can anyone clarify any of this, as I can't be certain enough to really say for sure. Most of what i know is based on years of speculation...I'd imagine that simple rider height from a tall suspension wheel, would be more a factor in energy  use (on smooth surfaces), than the suspension itself. When not is use, a suspension is merely weight.  I do know that if range over 30 miles is your concern, this wheel is probably too much a compromise in that area.

I can't wait for graphene to make a splash. Until that happens, Im just gna have to make due with the badass current offerings. Once battery and motor tech make 45mph sustained safely/reliably for 60 miles a reality, Im on it! Of course I'd like it to not weigh much over 50lbs either.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

 

6 hours ago, Christophe Maziere said:

if there is no XL model, nope for me !

There is the Inmotion V11 with a 1500Wh battery.

6 hours ago, Christophe Maziere said:

Especially that a wheel with suspension will spend and use more energy .

I’m also suspicious about this.

6 hours ago, Christophe Maziere said:

Does anybody know if the tire is tubeless ?

Not tubeless. Easy to change? I doubt. Could be a bit more work than on a wheel without suspension. But we won’t know until someone opens one up. Ecodrift’s teardown will be interesting to see!

 

[.....]

25 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Not tubeless. Easy to change? I doubt. Could be a bit more work than on a wheel without suspension. But we won’t know until someone opens one up. Ecodrift’s teardown will be interesting to see!

 

I'm on the fence about tube vs tubeless on my euc's. I think I am favoring the idea of tubes. Im not confident i can properly repair a tire puncture on an euc tire. Im pretty sure I COULD patch a tube if i needed to. Ive repaired 1000's of car tires, but it was fairly involved and I havent the tools for it anymore. Patching a tube tho... not so tough. Replacing a tube also doesnt require removing the tire completely. No worry about finding those tiny valve stems either. Of course, finding a tube with the right valve bend is tougher.  Pros and cons... At least atm, I've a pair of spare tubes for the 18L (18x2.5) and they should be okay in the sks18.  As soon as I get mine, I'll tear it down to nearly nill, as I dont trust these chinese companies to bother assembling them properly anyhow. I won't be taking the tire off, but I'll still have a good idea of the mess it may be. Who knows, maybe by some luck of the draw, KS accidentally made it a minor task to swap tubes. We shall see soon, I hope!

[Patton250]

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

[Patton250]

6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm on the fence about tube vs tubeless on my euc's. I think I am favoring the idea of tubes. Im not confident i can properly repair a tire puncture on an euc tire. Im pretty sure I COULD patch a tube if i needed to. Ive repaired 1000's of car tires, but it was fairly involved and I havent the tools for it anymore. Patching a tube tho... not so tough. Replacing a tube also doesnt require removing the tire completely. No worry about finding those tiny valve stems either. Of course, finding a tube with the right valve bend is tougher.  Pros and cons... At least atm, I've a pair of spare tubes for the 18L (18x2.5) and they should be okay in the sks18.  As soon as I get mine, I'll tear it down to nearly nill, as I dont trust these chinese companies to bother assembling them properly anyhow. I won't be taking the tire off, but I'll still have a good idea of the mess it may be. Who knows, maybe by some luck of the draw, KS accidentally made it a minor task to swap tubes. We shall see soon, I hope!

[RockyTop]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

I can see the need for distance but I have other wheels for that. Most of the time I use mine at work. I just need 1-4 miles and then it is back in the van on the charger so in this case the battery is plenty big enough. 

[Phong Vu]

8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

As soon as I get mine, I'll tear it down to nearly nill, as I dont trust these chinese companies to bother assembling them properly anyhow.

Hold up, you don't trust them, but you are willing to ride 50km/h on the wheel?
Did you realize that software and firmware are also from these Chinese companies and you will have no way to check it out until it throw you off?

However, I do have a same thinking as you about Gotway wheel (if I ever own a Gotway wheel), after seeing those mess inside Gotway high end wheels.  

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

I might be a good example.
I used to commute to work using train, so 13km back-and-forth each day on wheel from my apartment to the train station. So the V8's doing just fined with that.

I gonna move soon to a new house, where public transit is not as good, but it's closer to my office, so I don't need to use the train.
But it's 35km back-and-forth from my house to my office, so I either:
1- Get a car and start driving to work.
2- Get a wheel with better range so I can enjoy these summer hours.

I do refer a wheel which I don't need to charge at work and still can ride back home (and maybe some extra stops) full speed.
Main reason is that sometime I forgot to plug in the charge and realize at 4pm I have an empty battery wheel.

[jimjam.nyc]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

I do understand what you are saying for the most part, but having extra battery power is just nice to not have to think about.. Considering most of the Wheel makers start limiting speed and things at 50% or so.. Its nice to have the range. Plus having juice for safety if you have to power through something.. or get caught on a pothole is just good piece of mind. 

I don't really commute on my wheel.. but i went for a 17 mile joyride yesterday. I can do that on my V8.. but it would be cutting things close. 

All this being said.. i think the battery in this wheel should be good for most uses.. I think there is a subsect of people that would want/need the huge batteries.. but not everyone needs them.. Which is why i like when wheels have multiple options/SKUs for battery sizes! 

[null]

3 hours ago, Patton250 said:

The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value.

Thats your supposition, if people care about range, there is a chance they actually want to use it.
I dont think people lug around 25+Kg wheels just because they aren't aware of their needs.

On top of being my main transport, I love just riding, road trip style, not skatepark.

As for v8 commuters (and not everyone have the same traffic type as you) they probably dont hang out on enthusiasts forums.

Edited May 4, 2020 by null

[.....]

2 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

Hold up, you don't trust them, but you are willing to ride 50km/h on the wheel?
Did you realize that software and firmware are also from these Chinese companies and you will have no way to check it out until it throw you off?
 

yup, but I've also seen too many forgotten connections and improperly torqued bolts. True, I have no choice but to put my faith in their programming, but it gets tested by pushing the power button and trying to even get rolling. Ironic since they cant figure out a working app. I take mine apart to minimize (not remove) the risk of failure AND to verse myself in how it works and how maintenance/repairs may be conducted in the future. Being a new design, I'll also be looking for points of wear/contact and try to keep in mind what linkeage moves and what was used in the wear point. Not to mention, Im going to run a water hose thru it, wait for it to dry, THEN take it apart to check for water ingress. I gotta admit, it would at least make a dandy looking paperweight too!

Edited May 4, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Espen R]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

Well, I use my 18XL every day and I also have to charge every day. For long tarmac cruises, the range is fine on the XL, but when I push the wheel hard, it is not that impressive. If I average 25kph (15mph) on my daily off-road trail run, I have 30-40% left after about 1 hour, and that isn’t enough for me anymore. Luckily, I live in Scandinavia, so the dry conditions I need to average 25kph are fairly rare. In slightly damp conditions I only manage to average between 20-22kph, and then I have 50-60% left after 1 hour, which leaves me 30-40min of extra riding time before the battery is down to levels where I don’t feel comfortable pushing the wheel.

With the more power-hungry motor on the S18, I would get less than 30min on that wheel, which is kind of ridiculous. I don’t think Kingsong would double the battery capacity on the XL version of the S18, so I’m forced to go over to the dark side for my next wheel.

[.....]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range. The vast majority of people that use EUCs do so purely for entertainment and fun value. I realize some of you brave individuals commute to work with them but if I was going to take that kind of chance with my life I think I would rather sky dive. Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles? Those of you who do commute can you not get back-and-forth from work to home on one charge? 

You can do both, skydive AND put your life in the hands of a plastic wheel made in china(skydiving is FAR safer btw, bad comparison). I'd say riding a wheel on public streets is more akin to using a crosswalk near a high school, for danger. As for range... it takes every drop of battery for me to get to my local gas station and back. Having more battery would mean I could go buy some ammo and a coke without being throttled before I get home. I ride for fun, I dont think pushing my wheel home with traffic coming at my back, sounds like much fun. More battery would give me a bigger buffer during those mountain runs too. But alas, the wimpy sks18 battery will have to do, until the next gen of batteries arrives.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Heyzeus]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:57 PM, Lindsey said:

When I saw the video of Coozi, Coozi was not short, but King Song S18 looked a bit tall.

The production values on Coozi Spins videos just aren't up to par with his brother Kuji, so it could have been due to the camera angle.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Heyzeus

[RagingGrandpa]

The rider makes the difference, like always

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hkeuc/permalink/2979041775485230/

[pico]

Karate chop man strikes again!

Impressive, BUT that confirms some suspicions I had...

Some single leg maneuvers require a totally different technique...

I wish @Hirsute was shown handling the V11. (hint, hint Inmotion... )

 

It would be interesting to know if the suspension was in the "locked" position...

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by pico

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

I've a pair of spare tubes for the 18L (18x2.5) and they should be okay in the sks18.

I haven’t seen a tube that would be spec’d for both 2.5” and 3.0” tires, the difference in diameter is quite large. Personally I wouldn’t stretch a tube for an extra 20%.

8 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I still don’t understand this obsession with range.

For me it’s about wether I can make my favorite trip through the woods and outdoorsy pathways or not. And if I didn’t have such a specific measure that I usually ride many times a week, it would be about wether the fun and exercise would feel like it was cut off prematurely or not. Like a bowl of ice cream that was taken away from me before I was finished. You better not try do that if you want to keep your fingers intact btw...

Quote

Either way are you really going to choose one wheel over the other because of 10 miles?

Absolutely, if the 10 miles less would prevent me from doing the trips I wish to do. And if you are talking about the V11 vs S18, the 35% larger battery should translate to a bit more than 10 miles.

[mrelwood]

 

Discussion on tubed vs. tubeless tires and sealant vs. sealantless was moved to it's own topic here: