King Song S18 Discussion

[Rehab1]

4 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

 

I’ve never seen Kuji display such an erect posture while hitting a bump. He really trusts the S18 suspension. 
 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Rehab1

[jonm42]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

and I wont fall into the trap of assuming one is superior

I wish more people thought like you.

[bbulkow]

On 4/13/2020 at 6:12 PM, Stillhart said:

  do people normally give the MFR's such a hard time about super technical details on the product?  I've never once been in an enthusiast community where people start looking up specs of individual components and then call out the manufacturer for on really specific hypothetical situations. 

Yes, but I also think this is extreme.

Look at Harley forums.... discussions of carbs and injection and some number of CC of engines.... and products considered SHIT if they don't do X Y Z. That's enthusiasts for you.

And then other enthusiasts can say "no no no, it's fine". I at least said that about these specs. If the wheel is more stable, and has less foot fatigue, as the first ( one of two ) suspended wheels, that's a great step forward. Back and forth, that's forums for you.

However, I see a pile on of folks saying "it has to be lighter and have 2x more battery!!!" which is just a silly statement. There is not fat on this wheel, there are no batteries available with that kind of power to weight ratio. You can desire 2x the battery at the same weight all you want. Or, you want a 100lb wheel, which I don't. For me, the reason a wheel beats a scooter or a bike is the portability, which means carrying it onto a train ( my commuter rail has steps you have to carry up ), and lift into a car trunk, and my office has no elevator thus a three flight of stair walk, so I prefer the weight of my KS18L and wouldn't take an extra 10lbs.

 

[Flying W]

The good news is we are spoiled with choice, the bad news is we want it all in one package!  

I dont have to worry about either of these two suspended wheels because my wife (without having to even say a word)  made it very clear that a new wheels is not happening right now. 

I dont know the exact date my balls ended up locked away in her purse, and most days I dont really notice they are gone, but when your the primary bread winner and get shot down (silently) for even joking (well let's say half serious)  about a 4th wheel you do realize that extra space was where your balls used to be.

In a way it's a blessing. Once this virus crap is behind us and income is more certain there should be longer range suspended options on the market. 

She needs to catch the wheel bug, once my baby boy is old enough hes getting a wheel, it would be great to ride as a family! He's only 6mos so there is time for her get infected like the rest of us 

[Rafal]

anyone know what is the max/min pedal clearance for S18?

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, Rafal said:

anyone know what is the max/min pedal clearance for S18?

 

On 4/8/2020 at 10:38 PM, Jack King Song said:

I'll answer what I can, please keep in mind I've been kept busy trying to share this content. 

Suspension travel is 100mm compared to V11's 70mm-75mm
Pedal Height is from 205mm to 105mm

Edited April 23, 2020 by fbhb

[Meserias]

I just unfollow this thread until new S18 version with bigger battery appear in the market.
there is no point (for me) to get a wheel with less range that I have now.....simply as that.

[null]

15 hours ago, Meserias said:

I just unfollow this thread until new S18 version with bigger battery appear in the market.
there is no point (for me) to get a wheel with less range that I have now.....simply as that.

Same here. I’m really interested in the suspensions, but the S18 use cases just don’t fit what I do:

urban: surely comfy but my 16s is torquier, lighter up stairs and more compact in transport. The second main use I see for it is off road, which is cool, but basically playing around in the forest (with all due respect). Could be fun but I’m not getting a wheel just for that. What I really want it for is long range trips. The suspensions would be great to reduce knee fatigue. But the range just isn’t there. Even my 18XL I’d like to go farther, so this would be just frustrating..

Result, if I bought it it would just be for playing around, which would be fun but financially and ecologically irresponsible.

edit: I’d really like one, but it would have to at least compete with the 18xl on range.

Edited April 24, 2020 by null

[fryman]

3 hours ago, null said:

Same here. I’m really interested in the suspensions, but the S18 use cases just don’t fit what I do:

urban: surely comfy but my 16s is torquier, lighter up stairs and more compact in transport. The second main use I see for it is off road, which is cool, but basically playing around in the forest (with all due respect). Could be fun but I’m not getting a wheel just for that. What I really want it for is long range trips. The suspensions would be great to reduce knee fatigue. But the range just isn’t there. Even my 18XL I’d like to go farther, so this would be just frustrating..

Result, if I bought it it would just be for playing around, which would be fun but financially and ecologically irresponsible.

+ 1

[Patton250]

I would very much like to know which of these two wheels accelerates faster and has more power off the line. 
 

Is the S18 quicker the the 16X? Is it quicker then the V11?

[UniVehje]

48 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I would very much like to know which of these two wheels accelerates faster and has more power off the line. 
 

Is the S18 quicker the the 16X? Is it quicker then the V11?

If the motor is same, S18 should not be quicker than the 16X. S18 and V11 should feel about the same, both require as much lean to get going as they are same size. V11 probably has bigger/more magnets and it has a possibility to have more torque. But ultimately it's the firmware that decides if there are any differences. KingSong has updated their firmware to feel snappier twice already but Inmotion has done the same earlier. Impossible to know yet but most likely about the same. 

Edit: Just to clarify, it's mostly the tire size that decides how snappy wheels feel. Acceleration is depending on how much you lean forward as long as the batteries and control board can provide power to the motor to catch you. You cannot change how much you have to lean by having a motor that is rated for more watts continuously. So ultimately same size tires require same amount of effort to accelerate but firmware can affect how it feels. Both will accelerate as fast as you dare to lean but the other can feel easier if you get the right pedal settings. Inmotion has a slight advantage in fine tuning the pedal angle and softness. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by UniVehje

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

If the motor is same, S18 should not be quicker than the 16X. S18 and V11 should feel about the same, both require as much lean to get going as they are same size. V11 probably has bigger/more magnets and it has a possibility to have more torque. But ultimately it's the firmware that decides if there are any differences. KingSong has updated their firmware to feel snappier twice already but so Inmotion has done the same earlier. Impossible to know yet but most likely about the same. 

Thanks. I’m considering both and I’m definitely going to buy one I just want the faster one. 31 mph is plenty top end for me but I’d like to buy the one that gets there the quickest.

[mrelwood]

15 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Thanks. I’m considering both and I’m definitely going to buy one I just want the faster one. 31 mph is plenty top end for me but I’d like to buy the one that gets there the quickest.

@UniVehje’s perfect reply really is all you need to know.

 What is difficult to distinguish or analyze is how various aspects indeed affect the feel, which in turn can inspire or lack confidence. Longer pedals for example will usually feel significantly more stable since you have more of solid platform to lean on.

 If the reported pedal heights are anything to go by and the S18 really rests higher in the neutral riding position than the V11, the S18 could actually feel lazier to accelerate. That’s what I’ve noticed when trying various pedal mods on my MSX.

Everything else as well that improves rider stability and control, leads to a faster acceleration. Power pads, XXXL pedals, even specific shoes, etc.

 And the point was that either of the wheels can feel significantly more stable and familiar to you. Any other rider can have the opposite opinion.

[Nic]

 

[.....]

Interesting trip down the rabbit hole of mtb suspension gadgetry...

https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-New-2017-Products-from-Crankworx-Whistler,10403/Electronic-ShockWiz-Suspension-Tuning-Assitant,108965/bturman,109

[onizukagto]

Wild S18 spotted?

[Dave Wood]

7 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Wild S18 spotted?

WTF something looks really off in that video either that guy is tiny or that wheel is freaking huge

[Lindsey]

54 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Wild S18 spotted?

Wow, was the S18 body this big? 

How tall is Kuji? In the Kuji video, I felt that King Song S18 was big.But...the size shown in this video is bigger than the monster.

Or the person in the video is small or something, right?

I think the electric wheel is too big because of the support. 

I don't think short-legged people can ride it. 

[null]

1 hour ago, Lindsey said:

I don't think short-legged people can ride it. 

Like a horse ^_^

[.....]

they sure are making people tiny nowadays aint they? I expected it to be tall, but he really makes that seem like a tank. Should I be worried?

[Phong Vu]

 This guys is short.
Not that abnormal for Southest Asian actually.

[.....]

Makes a person wonder just how tough its gna be to ride on mountain trails? Luckily it seems that the top couple inches, or more, are not much in weight, hopefully minimizing it being 'top heavy'. Maybe it would look like a 'normal' sized wheel, standing next to my 6'3"

[Nic]

48 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

 This guys is short.
Not that abnormal for Southest Asian actually.

Is this the chap that does all the range testing?

[Lindsey]

2 hours ago, null said:

Like a horse

prepare a ladder or saddle...........

[.....]

6 hours ago, Lindsey said:

prepare a ladder or saddle...........

Hopefully it looks intimidating enough that the requests from strangers to ride it, will diminish. Cover it in mud and scratches and perhaps even more so..

@Nic too funny! But i bet they use a 'small' person for range. Imagine how tiny a small person would be, if THIS guy is considered common size. No wonder the stock pedals on most, look like they are made for infants...

Edited May 3, 2020 by ShanesPlanet