King Song S18 Discussion

[.....]

Her English isnt great(vicky @KS), but i THINK we aren't getting an option in white for the first round? I JUST emailed Jason to prefer white. Oh well, black looks sexy too, I just dont prefer coatings. Anyone able to verify the validity of black being the only choice for preorders? That sticker has GOT to GO, either way.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Chriull]

38 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

but i THINK we aren't getting an option in white for the first round? I JUST emailed Jason to prefer white. Oh well, black looks sexy too, I just dont prefer coatings. Anyone able to verify the validity of black being the only choice for preorders?

Afair for some wheels from some manufacturer was stated (?rumoured?) that black and white are not only different (non) colours, but different materials, too. So ones choice could be not only astethics but also durability!

[onizukagto]

4 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Afair for some wheels from some manufacturer was stated (?rumoured?) that black and white are not only different (non) colours, but different materials, too. So ones choice could be not only astethics but also durability!

that'll be sweet! but i hope it's not of that soft rubber material. 

Under different temps and weather condition, soft rubberised  panel start to decompose and get disgustingly sticky. maybe a textiles ABS impact-resistant panels. 

[.....]

10 hours ago, Chriull said:

Afair for some wheels from some manufacturer was stated (?rumoured?) that black and white are not only different (non) colours, but different materials, too. So ones choice could be not only astethics but also durability!

I was dancing around that tidbit and not mentioning it, as I wasnt sure about the new plastic mixtures. To me, it seems that solid white plastics are more often a little less brittle than some of the blacks. Ks has probably rectified this since learning about it on the shells of some older ks18's.  Ive also ran into black plastic with the rubber coating, turning to a stick mushy mess as the rubberized coating breaks down. Removing the coating leaves a gloss black but not uniform plastic underneath. I DO NOT know if ks will or has had this problem, but ive seen it on other gear in my studio and it makes the product useless. Also, rubberized coatings pull off plastic sometimes if you are a sticker lover that removes stickers later. Plastic welding, black is usually more fail prone than white. Its more about the material than color, so please dont think that I have ANY real idea about the materials KS is using on the sks18. I updated Jason (ewheels is daBOMB!)about my preference, and only time will tell. I have 3 white wheels here, it wasnt an accident

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[gon2fast]

from KS support - 

-We have been told by Kingsong Intel Co that the black and the white side panels are indeed composed of the same material.
-This is the most up to date color scheme of the black S18 that we know of...

[fryman]

More Battery

 

[Jon Stern]

58 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I was dancing around that tidbit and not mentioning it, as I wasnt sure about the new plastic mixtures. To me, it seems that solid white plastics are more often a little less brittle than some of the blacks. Ks has probably rectified this since learning about it on the shells of some older ks18's.  Ive also ran into black plastic with the rubber coating, turning to a stick mushy mess as the rubberized coating breaks down. Removing the coating leaves a gloss black but not uniform plastic underneath. I DO NOT know if ks will or has had this problem, but ive seen it on other gear in my studio and it makes the product useless. Also, rubberized coatings pull off plastic sometimes if you are a sticker lover that removes stickers later. Plastic welding, black is usually more fail prone than white. Its more about the material than color, so please dont think that I have ANY real idea about the materials KS is using on the sks18. I updated Jason (ewheels is daBOMB!)about my preference, and only time will tell. I have 3 white wheels here, it wasnt an accident

While there's a grain of truth to the black plastic = more brittle, the effect is negligible compared to other factors: choice of resin (there are so many these days), glass fill percentage, injection parameters, mold tool design, wall thickness, UV inhibitors, etc.

With adequate testing, design, and process control, the manufacturer should be easily able to compensate for the minor difference in the base material properties.

The "rubber coating" going mushing is down to choice of material, and probably a lack of testing. Silicone over-molds perform best (incredibly stable), but are a lot more expensive, so manufacturers frequently go for low-cost TPEs.

[.....]

26 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

While there's a grain of truth to the black plastic = more brittle, the effect is negligible compared to other factors: choice of resin (there are so many these days), glass fill percentage, injection parameters, mold tool design, wall thickness, UV inhibitors, etc.

With adequate testing, design, and process control, the manufacturer should be easily able to compensate for the minor difference in the base material properties.

The "rubber coating" going mushing is down to choice of material, and probably a lack of testing. Silicone over-molds perform best (incredibly stable), but are a lot more expensive, so manufacturers frequently go for low-cost TPEs.

You make a very good point and clarification.

Please don't mistake me at all. I DO NOT know what the plastic compounds and coatings are made of on the NEW sks18 models. I can only go by past experiences, and oddly enough... we have some recent experience with KS and their black plastic in a 'not so old' model of ks18. I have many black coated items that still look great as well. Until I get to see and use the new plastics AND watch them as they age for 5 years, I can only go with dated and perhaps unrelated experiences. Normally it would be safe to assume that the designers and builders have learned from mistakes and rectified them. Well, 'normal' hasnt always shown to apply in the chinese euc market. I mean hell, how many damn times do we have to see the same build mistakes and design error, repeated over and over again?! Please don't allow my bias and assumptions to change your mind about colors or durability. As of now, everything I know about the sks18 is speculation. I DO like white and how it looks, and tho I was 50/50 on what color I wanted, in the end, my past experience tipped the scales just enough for me to prefer white (tho I'd take black too). Regardless, MY sks18 is destined to be beaten to shit. I plan on getting it wet and muddy, tumbling it down rocky trails and attempting things beyond my skill level. It would be a lucky day IF a mere coating was even the least of my worries. Mine will probably end up looking like mud meets scratches color either way. If rollNZ makes a cover, the choice becomes even more moot. Just as my 'white' wheels, once covered, they become whatever sexy color the cover is.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[B08AH]

Brittle plastic should not be that much of an issue anymore, since supporting structure is made of metal if I understood it correctly from presentations. Only the exterior panels are made of plastic now.

Edited May 7, 2020 by B08AH

[.....]

36 minutes ago, B08AH said:

Brittle plastic should not be that much of an issue anymore, since supporting structure is made of metal if I understood it correctly from presentations. Only the exterior panels are made of plastic now.

Still matters because of mounting tabs and external impact. I'd rather hope they came up with a new compound, rather than ignoring it as its 'merely' cosmetic now. They say its the same black/white, but if it was the same, wouldnt the be the same color? I know, i'm splitting hairs, but they are obviously not 'the same' as additives change the colors. Unless the black is simply a coating on white(i doubt that seriosuly).  But yeah, I'd imagine its less a structural issue on this type of build. Quality of metal and bolts are now more a factor. They may have decided a more flexible plastic that moves rather than breaks, is the way forwards, especially on non-support roles. No worries, I'll test it real quick and we'll see. Im willing to beat mine with abnormal stupidity.

I'm more worried about pedal/hanger durability. Even the prototype had a missing,rusty, structure bolt at the pedals. It made me REALLY aware that the entire pedal hanger assembly has been changed (of course) and now includes multi point of contact and bolts. If this metal is made from my old paperclips, it WILL become an issue and a big one. I asked Jack @ks about the bolt grade and he avoided answering it then left us altogether. Hopefully my question didnt push him over the edge

Edited May 7, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

 

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I asked Jack @ks about the bolt grade and he avoided answering it then left us altogether.

Maybe that was indeed why he felt screwed and bolted... 

Actually, he said that it was the upper management at KS that has decided not to continue the Q&A.

Questions on screw size and material, plastic grade and such could be skipped at the prototype stage simply because aspects that specific may not be fully decided on just yet.

[.....]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Maybe that was indeed why he felt screwed and bolted... 

Actually, he said that it was the upper management at KS that has decided not to continue the Q&A.

Questions on screw size and material, plastic grade and such could be skipped at the prototype stage simply because aspects that specific may not be fully decided on just yet.

Good to know. Yeah, I was expecting a 'to be determined' or an 'unsure atm'. I honestly cant expect a manufacturer to have such specs on hand, or be willing to freely publish it. But hell, he said we could ask questions. I wonder if KS will ever attempt to have a social media rep, that is hovering everywhere like that, again?

[B08AH]

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Still matters because of mounting tabs and external impact.

Not going to see indestructible devices anytime soon. It will still break under some conditions. But at least it won't crack from just riding it, like 18L's internal case does.

[.....]

6 minutes ago, B08AH said:

Not going to see indestructible devices anytime soon. It will still break under some conditions. But at least it won't crack from just riding it, like 18L's internal case does.

Yup, i agree. Structural failure will more than likely be something else than plastic now! Not looking for indestructible, but taking a beating will be welcomed. To be fair, my white 18L takes a beating and I cant complain. Even with its cover, I can admit that it does the job. Internal screw points and the metal they use for screws is a little underwhelming, but not bad at all. If the plastics can even take HALF the beating that atv and dirtbike fenders can, I'll be overly stoked. OR, they can sell me plastic parts for stupid cheap, that'd work too. Being non structural, duct tape, zip ties, adhesive and plastic welding would easily be an option as well.

Edited May 7, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Kuji Rolls]

On 5/3/2020 at 1:00 AM, Lindsey said:

How tall is Kuji?

He's 178cm and about 70kg. 

[Patton250]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:51 AM, null said:

Thats your supposition, if people care about range, there is a chance they actually want to use it.
I dont think people lug around 25+Kg wheels just because they aren't aware of their needs.

On top of being my main transport, I love just riding, road trip style, not skatepark.

As for v8 commuters (and not everyone have the same traffic type as you) they probably dont hang out on enthusiasts forums.

You might want to look up what the word supposition means. :-)

just being friendly.

 

everybody I know uses these things for fun. Absolutely every single video I ever see about them is people using them for fun. On road, off-road, up mountains, down mountains, overheat hill. Etc. etc. etc. I realize some of you use these things to commute but I suspect you’re doing that because you think they are fun not because they are the best way for you to commute. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Patton250

[Patton250]

On 5/4/2020 at 12:16 PM, ShanesPlanet said:

You can do both, skydive AND put your life in the hands of a plastic wheel made in china(skydiving is FAR safer btw, bad comparison). I'd say riding a wheel on public streets is more akin to using a crosswalk near a high school, for danger. As for range... it takes every drop of battery for me to get to my local gas station and back. Having more battery would mean I could go buy some ammo and a coke without being throttled before I get home. I ride for fun, I dont think pushing my wheel home with traffic coming at my back, sounds like much fun. More battery would give me a bigger buffer during those mountain runs too. But alas, the wimpy sks18 battery will have to do, until the next gen of batteries arrives.

This post made me laugh. I want to see you riding back home on your wheel with ammo and a Coke. That would be epic. :-)

[null]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

You might want to look up what the word supposition means. :-)

just being friendly.

everybody I know uses these things for fun. Absolutely every single video I ever see about them is people using them for fun. On road, off-road, up mountains, down mountains, overheat hill. Etc. etc. etc. I realize some of you use these things to commute but I suspect you’re doing that because you think they are fun not because they are the best way for you to commute. 

Supposition "a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis." 
It means exactly what I used it for, you can take your condescending tone and shove it.

Edited May 8, 2020 by null

[RockyTop]

13 hours ago, Kuji Rolls said:

He's 178cm and about 70kg. 

I am not sure I can trust the source.     Way to swoop in there! 

(5'10"  154 pounds) 

Edited May 8, 2020 by RockyTop

[Patton250]

16 minutes ago, null said:

Supposition "a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis." 
It means exactly what I used it for.
Your tone is condescending and your statements reek of dunning kruger effect.

Oh gawd 

I tried to be nice about it.  You were wrong. Really really wrong. I just figured you didn’t really know what the word meant. 

 

[SamSuffit]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Oh gawd 

I tried to be nice about it.  You were wrong. Really really wrong. I just figured you didn’t really know what the word meant. 

What is sure is that you are indeed condescending. And wrong/self centric.

Many people use EUC to commute, especially in large cities. Because it is fun yes, but also: because you can avoid public transit, or you can use public transit with it, because you can use bike lane and avoid traffic jam, because you can keep it with you everywhere and avoid leaving it in the street beeing stolen, because it requires less maintenance than any other device, because you dont want to arrive sweaty at work, because it is quick so you can mix in the traffic and long range, because it is silent, relatively cheaper and pollute less than many other options, because you can see the sun outside and enjoy it. And I am not sure to have listed everything.

Or maybe you are bored and trolling.

Edited May 8, 2020 by SamSuffit

[gon2fast]

I love your banter, but let's refocus. What is the ETA to get the S18/V11 beta units to the YouTube testers? I do not want delays based on testing feedback so get the units out please, lol. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, gon2fast said:

I love your banter, but let's refocus. What is the ETA to get the S18/V11 beta units to the YouTube testers? I do not want delays based on testing feedback so get the units out please, lol. 

If I promise to record as much as I can and include my first crash on youtube, can I be a YouTube tester? I recall hearing early June for shipping, but I'm no rush and I'd imagine it may be a bit longer. Anyone have an idea when?

[Patton250]

7 hours ago, SamSuffit said:

What is sure is that you are indeed condescending. And wrong/self centric.

Many people use EUC to commute, especially in large cities. Because it is fun yes, but also: because you can avoid public transit, or you can use public transit with it, because you can use bike lane and avoid traffic jam, because you can keep it with you everywhere and avoid leaving it in the street beeing stolen, because it requires less maintenance than any other device, because you dont want to arrive sweaty at work, because it is quick so you can mix in the traffic and long range, because it is silent, relatively cheaper and pollute less than many other options, because you can see the sun outside and enjoy it. And I am not sure to have listed everything.

Or maybe you are bored and trolling.

Let me break this down simple. It’s usually better that way. I am now going to be condescending however. Do try to follow along.

I said I didn’t understand the obsession with range because most people use these things for fun. I also said I realize people do use them for commuting but my main statement was that MOST people use them for fun.

He then said that’s your supposition. with a simple Google search we know the word supposition means “ A belief held without proof or certain knowledge, an assumption or hypothesis”. 
 

I do hope we can all be in agreement that is the definition of the word supposition because if not the rest of my point won’t make sense to you. 
 

down here is why saying that is my supposition is utterly ridiculous. I have plenty of proof and most certain knowledge that roughly 90% of the posts on this very forum are about people having just fun with these machines, all the people I personally know only use them for fun and 98% of all the videos shot for YouTube is people having fun with them. In fact I’ve never seen one YouTube video (i’m not saying there isn’t one) and just commuting to work. I don’t know how to present any more proof or certain knowledge than that.

Now let’s go back to the post where I said I don’t understand the obsession with range. I absolutely meant no insult or offense to anyone that actually uses these things to commute to work. This thread is about the S18 and its new shock system so you can almost bet the vast majority of people purchasing this is to use it Offroad for fun. The condescending insult was thrown at me first. Although I’m not offended and I don’t mind but I will come back and explain myself and make my point. Supposition was a remarkably inaccurate word to describe my point. I thought I was correct in assuming he didn’t know the definition of it because it was so far off. 
 

Now Sam let’s add dress my favorite forum word. Troll. Troll is usually a word used on a forum by people who are uncomfortable that other people have different opinions than them. When they get to a higher level of uncomfortableness they generally throw the word troll at them as a last ditch effort to explain the difference in opinions. “ Well that guy doesn’t believe the way I do so he must be a troll.”

Edited May 8, 2020 by Patton250

[Espen R]

14 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Let me break this down simple. It’s usually better that way. I am now going to be condescending however. Do try to follow along.

I said I didn’t understand the obsession with range because most people use these things for fun. I also said I realize people do use them for commuting but my main statement was that MOST people use them for fun.

He then said that’s your supposition. with a simple Google search we know the word supposition means “ A belief held without proof or certain knowledge, an assumption or hypothesis”. 
 

I do hope we can all be in agreement that is the definition of the word supposition because if not the rest of my point won’t make sense to you. 
 

down here is why saying that is my supposition is utterly ridiculous. I have plenty of proof and most certain knowledge that roughly 90% of the posts on this very forum are about people having just fun with these machines, all the people I personally know only use them for fun and 98% of all the videos shot for YouTube is people having fun with them. In fact I’ve never seen one YouTube video (i’m not saying there isn’t one) and just commuting to work. I don’t know how to present any more proof or certain knowledge than that.

Now let’s go back to the post where I said I don’t understand the obsession with range. I absolutely meant no insult or offense to anyone that actually uses these things to commute to work. This thread is about the S18 and its new shock system so you can almost bet the vast majority of people purchasing this is to use it Offroad for fun. The condescending insult was thrown at me first. Although I’m not offended and I don’t mind but I will come back and explain myself and make my point. Supposition was a remarkably inaccurate word to describe my point. I thought I was correct in assuming he didn’t know the definition of it because it was so far off. 

So, when you use your wheel for fun you don’t need range?? I struggle to understand that logic. S18 = 20-30mins of off-road riding for me, and then I would feel a bit cheated on the fun part. More range = more fun, that’s the obsession on range for my part.

You live in a fairly flat part of the world, so you might be able to have enough fun on short range wheels, but where I live, we have something called hills;)