King Song S18 Discussion

[Jon Stern]

2 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

On a lighter note my KS S18 arrived today.

 

What range are you getting?

[meepmeepmayer]

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

This thread is dedicated to the release of a new and ground-braking wheel...

Ground-Braking is my new favorite euphemism for a crash/faceplant now. We ain't falling off the wheel, we are merely ground-braking. "I overlooked a pothole and did a ground-brake."

[Espen R]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

How you got to know what fits inside a S18 or V11 is very hard for me to understand at this point. I am not aware of any inside pictures yet.

In a 3D design process, you are fully aware of the size of everything, I doubt KS are using clay models, so I don’t think they designed the wheel and then realized they could only fit a battery of this size. The small battery is not because of the design, it’s a business decision, and I’m pretty sure that would become clear once the XL version is released. It is very hard for me to understand that you don’t understand that.

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

My longest ride yet is about 40km. One of the best selling wheels the V8 just barely do this. A S18 will be seen as a huge upgrade compared to this. Some of the key points to V8 success is light weight and price. Comparing S18 vs V11 this where the S18 did have a plus on its side. 

I could agree with you if the S18 was a 35-40kph wheel. With the current specs I think it is a strange wheel. Does it limit the speed when the voltage drops or does it become dangerous? If I owned this wheel, I would limit it to 35kph, and I wouldn’t try to push it when it gets below 40%. My gripe with the current specs is that not everyone who buys this wheel would understand that. For those who do, great, you know what you get and can enjoy it for what it is, and for that it is probably an awesome wheel.

 

[Unventor]

@Espen R I understand you are not happy about the S18. But my point on this is that is okey. But some people will be happy. It is still not near production ready. It has weeks to that. Might even be delayed. 

Yes they know size of components. They just made some decisions you are not happy about. But I doubt your were at the table when they made them. I know I wasn't but I understand stand "their" first design was forced to change by a court order. And this is likely to have impacted a lot on what we see in the early video teasers KS made sure to show up to meet IM product release. 

Moaning about god of greed is not bringing any change to the design. 

But this line of posting made KS pull their Q&A thread. I am not saying you is the cause. But negative loaded questions and strong color language just made them retract interaction with community.

1 hour ago, Espen R said:

it’s a business decision, and I’m pretty sure that would become clear once the XL version is released. It is very hard for me to understand that you don’t understand that.

Yep they know there are a limit to what people pay. They know people talk weight. But they are forced to bring a model to market. It is not ideal but some will by it. They will make changes, but according to KS there are not space for extra battery and no XL version is planned. If this is true or not we will know later once we can see pictures of inside.

Right now it is speculation/rumours/guess only. That much I understand. 

I still think you would be better of just letting it go and do as you stated buy Gotway in future. For some people they offer best choice. 

Let other be happy if they can with the S18. I bet on V11 as my choice. I didn't plan to buy a wheel this year and surely not a 1st batch. But I got persuade and couldn't resist. I have had some very constructive interactions with Inmotion over the past few months now. 

This could have happened with KS too but people here on forum didn't see this as opportunity and now the open communication is very limited. 

Anyway. So I pre-booked a V11. I hope I will be happy about it. Just as I hope people that do choose the S18 will be happy about that wheel. 

[davinche]

11 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Let me break this down simple. It’s usually better that way. I am now going to be condescending however. Do try to follow along.

I said I didn’t understand the obsession with range because most people use these things for fun. I also said I realize people do use them for commuting but my main statement was that MOST people use them for fun.

He then said that’s your supposition. with a simple Google search we know the word supposition means “ A belief held without proof or certain knowledge, an assumption or hypothesis”. 
 

I do hope we can all be in agreement that is the definition of the word supposition because if not the rest of my point won’t make sense to you. 
 

down here is why saying that is my supposition is utterly ridiculous. I have plenty of proof and most certain knowledge that roughly 90% of the posts on this very forum are about people having just fun with these machines, all the people I personally know only use them for fun and 98% of all the videos shot for YouTube is people having fun with them. In fact I’ve never seen one YouTube video (i’m not saying there isn’t one) and just commuting to work. I don’t know how to present any more proof or certain knowledge than that.

Now let’s go back to the post where I said I don’t understand the obsession with range. I absolutely meant no insult or offense to anyone that actually uses these things to commute to work. This thread is about the S18 and its new shock system so you can almost bet the vast majority of people purchasing this is to use it Offroad for fun. The condescending insult was thrown at me first. Although I’m not offended and I don’t mind but I will come back and explain myself and make my point. Supposition was a remarkably inaccurate word to describe my point. I thought I was correct in assuming he didn’t know the definition of it because it was so far off. 
 

Now Sam let’s add dress my favorite forum word. Troll. Troll is usually a word used on a forum by people who are uncomfortable that other people have different opinions than them. When they get to a higher level of uncomfortableness they generally throw the word troll at them as a last ditch effort to explain the difference in opinions. “ Well that guy doesn’t believe the way I do so he must be a troll.”

Haven't been following this thread too closely but I'll help point some flaws in your arguments.

11 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I have plenty of proof and most certain knowledge that roughly 90% of the posts on this very forum are about people having just fun with these machines, all the people I personally know only use them for fun and 98% of all the videos shot for YouTube is people having fun with them. In fact I’ve never seen one YouTube video (i’m not saying there isn’t one) and just commuting to work. I don’t know how to present any more proof or certain knowledge than that.

1. You're claiming you have proof, yet provided none. Where does the 90% come from? Actual proof would be to go through and count all forum posts and provide real numbers / statistics.

2. Knowing people who use them for fun is not proof. Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence.

3. YouTube is not a good representation of the population. IE: most people are not YouTubers. So providing statistics from a biased population serves no meaning. What you need is a random sampling of the population.

11 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 This thread is about the S18 and its new shock system so you can almost bet the vast majority of people purchasing this is to use it Offroad for fun.

I mean... isn't this sentence itself evident enough that the positions taken are "suppositions"? You even say "you can almost bet" - where the act of betting represents taking a position without absolute knowledge of the outcome.

11 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Supposition was a remarkably inaccurate word to describe my point. I thought I was correct in assuming he didn’t know the definition of it because it was so far off.

What was your point again? I have not been following the thread closely, but so far from what I can see in your rebuttal - supposition seems pretty accurate.

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, davinche said:

Haven't been following this thread too closely but I'll help point some flaws in your arguments.

1. You're claiming you have proof, yet provided none. Where does the 90% come from? Actual proof would be to go through and count all forum posts and provide real numbers / statistics.

2. Knowing people who use them for fun is not proof. Anecdotal "evidence" is not evidence.

3. YouTube is not a good representation of the population. IE: most people are not YouTubers. So providing statistics from a biased population serves no meaning. What you need is a random sampling of the population.

I mean... isn't this sentence itself evident enough that the positions taken are "suppositions"? You even say "you can almost bet" - where the act of betting represents taking a position without absolute knowledge of the outcome.

What was your point again? I have not been following the thread closely, but so far from what I can see in your rebuttal - supposition seems pretty accurate.

I have to assume you’re being sarcastic and joking around. Usually when people do that they make it more obvious however I always give people the benefit of the doubt. 

[davinche]

3 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I have to assume you’re being sarcastic and joking around. Usually when people do that they make it more obvious however I always give people the benefit of the doubt. 

Uhh unfortunately not. I was pretty engaged in the beginning during the initial announcement, but I only hop on now every couple of days to see if there are any new videos / confirm dates regarding the S18.

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

What range are you getting?

The range is absolutely amazing! 

[jonm42]

And to think this used to be  thread about the S18...

[Rehab1]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

And geared up and provision/backpack for long distance trail rides with drones?

That’s my Covid weight gain pose. 

[Rehab1]

3 minutes ago, jonm42 said:

And to think this used to be  thread about the S18...

It remains. I’m attempting to calm the emotions. 

[Patton250]

11 minutes ago, davinche said:

Uhh unfortunately not. I was pretty engaged in the beginning during the initial announcement, but I only hop on now every couple of days to see if there are any new videos / confirm dates regarding the S18.

OK then I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I will bet you $500 donated to any non-liberal charity of your choice that for every video from YouTube that you can produce of some guy talking about his wheel and his commute ONLY I’ll produce nine showing YouTube videos of people using the wheel for some sort of fun activity only. Deal?

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

That’s my Covid weight gain pose. 

Are you putting on pounds during this time of isolation? LOL :-) I am a little. That’s why I just purchased my first mountain bike today.

[davinche]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

OK then I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I will bet you $500 donated to any non-liberal charity of your choice that for every video from YouTube that you can produce of some guy talking about his wheel and his commute ONLY I’ll produce nine showing YouTube videos of people using the wheel for some sort of fun activity only. Deal?

Hey man... I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just pointing out the flaws in your argument. Again, my comments are towards the argument, not you as a person.

But if you read what i posted, then you should know that I already pointed out the issue with using youtube as the sampling population.

28 minutes ago, davinche said:

3. YouTube is not a good representation of the population. IE: most people are not YouTubers. So providing statistics from a biased population serves no meaning. What you need is a random sampling of the population.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by davinche

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, davinche said:

Hey man... I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just pointing out the flaws in your argument. Again, my comments are towards the argument, not you as a person.

But if you read what i posted, then you should know that I already pointed out the issue with using youtube as the sampling population.

 

I hear yeah I’m just telling you I have a good basis for using 90%. It’s probably much higher than that. My statement was extremely accurate. That’s all brother. I don’t feel attacked. This is all friendly. It’s not like you told me off like our friend from Paris did. lol :-)

[davinche]

19 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I hear yeah I’m just telling you I have a good basis for using 90%. It’s probably much higher than that. My statement was extremely accurate. That’s all brother. I don’t feel attacked. This is all friendly. It’s not like you told me off like our friend from Paris did. lol :-)

I mean personally I have no reason to attack or defend that statistic... because after all, people purchase things based off of their own personal needs. I am however (or was before this whole covid thing) someone who mainly use my EUC to commute to work, but I also do wish for an EUC with suspension with the goal to further alleviate worries of potholes and such.

[Rehab1]

36 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Are you putting on pounds during this time of isolation? LOL :-) I am a little. That’s why I just purchased my first mountain bike today.

 I think we all have. Congrats! Hey share a picture of your new bike along with a wheel on the photo thread. 
 

Back to the main topic———->>King Song S18 Discussion

[xorbe]

I did too, I had to start counting calories again, and cranked up the mileage on running.

[Flying W]

I was commuting but then switched jobs so I'm doing the next best thing (fun wise) and riding my motorcycle. If I had a large battery monster I could still commute but it would take up too much time durring the work week.

Now it's just riding for fun, but off road in the hills a battery drains super fast. I have no doubt we'll see larger battery suspended wheels in the future but we may need to wait for larger shells, or higher density batteries. 

I'm still having plenty of fun on a non suspended wheel and at this point with the riding I prefer in the hills off road I'd have to chose riding time over suspension.  

Of this hobby lasts I could see a time yrs and yrs from now where all wheels are suspended, kinda like how even mnt bike at Walmart has suspension now. 

[fbhb]

Now that we are back on topic, I'm just gonna leave this here:

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by fbhb

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

OK then I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I will bet you $500 donated to any non-liberal charity of your choice that for every video from YouTube that you can produce of some guy talking about his wheel and his commute ONLY I’ll produce nine showing YouTube videos of people using the wheel for some sort of fun activity only. Deal?

Data is data, and as @davinche said, none has been produced. What's more, different people can come to different conclusion based on the same "data". For instance: 

You are suggesting that since 90% of Youtube EUC videos are of people using their wheels for fun, that's representative of overall wheel use, whereas I think it can be more nuanced: who uploads videos of their commute? Commuters are surely under-represented in Youtube (I'm just speculating). At the same time, you can use your wheel to commute every day (making commuting its primary use), then go for a leisure ride on the weekend, and that's the video you're going to upload; according to your rationale (I'm not attacking, just trying to infer based on what you said), that user is in it just for the fun, when in reality, the fun just makes up a small percentage of his EUC usage. That could lead to massive differences between perceived use and reality.
 

My points being 1) Youtube isn't a realistic, reliable source, 2) We're all just speculating (initially about the S18, now about EUC usage), 3) Why are we having this discussion and why does it matter? (Boredome, I know), 4) How did this tangent start in the first place? and 6) What day is today? This whole lockdown has messed up my brain... 

Edit: and 7), What the hell happened to point 5)?  Refer to point 6, I guess... 

Edited May 9, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

24 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Now that we are back on topic, I'm just gonna leave this here:

Back on what...? Sorry... 

[mrelwood]

 

13 hours ago, Patton250 said:

roughly 90% of the posts on this very forum are about people having just fun

 

13 hours ago, Patton250 said:

98% of all the videos shot for YouTube is people having fun

 

13 hours ago, Patton250 said:

I don’t know how to present any more proof

I don’t know if the above quotes represents your way of thinking or just the way you write, but generally “proof” means something different.

I used to follow a forum dedicated to cars. Nobody posted about commuting. Does that mean that barely anyone uses a car for commuting?

I have also watched hundreds of car videos on YouTube. None of them were of people commuting in their cars. Further proof that barely anyone uses cars for commuting?

 This forum consists of people that are generally quite enthusiastic riders. Not at all an average sample set of EUC riders.

 Even if everyone used the EUC for commuting, I wouldn’t see the point in making or watching videos on people commuting.

 And back to the S18...

13 hours ago, Patton250 said:

the vast majority of people purchasing this is to use it Offroad for fun.

Of the two suspension wheels the V11 seems better suited to off-road use in every aspect. And since us off-road riders are yet another minority within a minority,  to me it seems to strongly suggest that the S18 will not generally be a wheel chosen for off-roading. Bad pavement and curbs are easily enough to benefit from the S18 suspension in a great way.

32 minutes ago, Flying W said:

Of this hobby lasts I could see a time yrs and yrs from now where all wheels are suspended, kinda like how even mnt bike at Walmart has suspension now. 

I believe the first year of S18 and V11 sales figures will dictate how the EUC markets will evolve. If the suspension will turn out to be the hit I think it will, it would likely trickle down to even nimble 16” wheels already in just a few years. The suspension travel will likely be less, but just imagine a 16S v3 with 5cm of suspension, 16x2.5” tire, a 1500Wh graphene battery and 40km/h top speed... I don’t think the evolving of EUCs is slowing down at all!

 

[.....]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Of the two suspension wheels the V11 seems better suited to off-road use in every aspect.

How odd that I believe (based on speculation of course) the exact opposite to be true. Never fear, I am not arguing and I dont know for shit. I just find it entertaining how 2 people can look at the exact same things and come to exact opposite conclusions. I plan on riding mine both street and off road. Whichever it does best at, that's what I'll use it for more often. Its got to bring something to the table that my mten and 18L doesn't, im pretty sure it will in one way or another. Or at least I HOPE it does.

I readily agree with the rest of your post, but hell, what fun is quoting to agree?

Edited May 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[.....]

59 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Now that we are back on topic, I'm just gonna leave this here:

 

Holy shit thats some skills. Especially with the extra pedal height. Just watching this makes my knee hurt.  Woohoo.. on topic too!

Edited May 9, 2020 by ShanesPlanet