King Song S18 Discussion

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, Espen R said:

So, when you use your wheel for fun you don’t need range?? I struggle to understand that logic. S18 = 20-30mins of off-road riding for me, and then I would feel a bit cheated on the fun part. More range = more fun, that’s the obsession on range for my part.

 

You live in a fairly flat part of the world, so you might be able to have enough fun on short range wheels, but where I live, we have something called hills;)

 

You make a great point. I agree with you. I have nothing against more range. All I’m saying in this case is that if we have to sacrifice a little range in these first stages of a new shock system type wheel I can accept that.

[Chriull]

42 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

All I’m saying in this case is that if we have to sacrifice a little range in these first stages of a new shock system type wheel I can accept that.

Yes. And many others most presumably can, too.

Others can not.

We are seeing here enough harsh responses for stating ones explicitely expressed personal opinion.

The amount of sold wheels by hitting or missing their "target" group is the risk of Kingsong! They hopefully thought enough about this and made enough surveys, looked at their previous sales numbers and peeked for competitors "hottest product" to be succesful, earn money and by this will deliver us many new great wheels in the future, too!

It's understandable to post here "creating target groups" that fits with ones own needs and whises, hoping Kingsong representatives will read this and adopt the new wheels accordingly.

... sometimes whishes come true...

What i absolutely don't understand are people with harsh, unpolite replies. Borderline to bashing.

Do they think they are cool?

Or just beeing online lets some people loose the last bit of behaviour?

Or i'm getting too old and slowly start with the "everything was better in the old times" melodram...

Edited May 8, 2020 by Chriull
Changed to a (hopefully) neutral wording - don't have any interest to read every detail on how this evolved.

[Espen R]

23 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

You make a great point. I agree with you. I have nothing against more range. All I’m saying in this case is that if we have to sacrifice a little range in these first stages of a new shock system type wheel I can accept that.

The only sacrifice Kingsong had to make when it comes to the battery size was to the god of greed. I don’t believe for a second that they couldn’t fit a larger battery because of the suspension, because then they would be incomprehensively poor at 3D design. This was a profit decision, and if they’re able to sell a lot of wheels with the current specs at a high range/high performance price, then I’m sure they’ll be happy with themselves.

I’m going to the dark side for my next wheel. GW here I come;)

If you can live with the range of this wheel, then that’s great for you. I’ll sulk in my corner and curse at the god of greed;)

Edited May 8, 2020 by Espen R

[travsformation]

@null @Patton250 @SamSuffit  Let's keep this friendly. Banter is welcome, discussions that heat up and change tone are normal, but let's stay clear of personal attacks and unnecessary conflict/provocations. This thread is dedicated to the release of a new and ground-braking wheel...I suggest we either focus on that or revel instead in the irony of how a discussion on the fun factor of a wheel somehow got so heated 

Also, quick note on what belongs where: lexicological discussions belong in the off-topic site https://english.stackexchange.com 

Edited May 8, 2020 by travsformation

[Lindsey]

On 5/7/2020 at 8:54 PM, Kuji Rolls said:

He's 178cm and about 70kg. 

Oh....Kuji Rolls....I'm sorry I asked you about your size in public.

Because of me, your body size has been revealed all over the world.I'm sorry.

You have a nice body proportion.

I always watch your YouTube videos well.

I always watched your videos and didn't think you were short.
But it was because the electric wheel looked big when I saw your review of Kingsong s18.

I look forward to your review of Kingsong s18.

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, Lindsey said:

You have a nice body proportion.

Seems to be no bad proportions to publish - maybe @Kuji Rolls enjoyed this possibility. 

[travsformation]

10 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Seems to be no bad proportions to publish - maybe @Kuji Rolls enjoyed this possibility. 

Everyone know that the only proportion that matters in a man is the size of his...wheel (and how well he uses it) 

[Lindsey]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Seems to be no bad proportions to publish - maybe @Kuji Rolls enjoyed this possibility. 

Oh, is that so?

I didn't know that either. I think Kuji has a great body proportion.

178cm, 70kg ....I envy you.

[Lindsey]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Everyone know that the only proportion that matters in a man is the size of his...wheel (and how well he uses it) 

Wow....Ah....It's another metaphor. 

Suddenly my face turns red.

[Unventor]

24 minutes ago, Lindsey said:

Wow....Ah....It's another metaphor. 

Suddenly my face turns red.

Well I guess this triggered @travsformation, somethings are just bound to happen. 

I kinda of miss the automatic (old) forum bot to trigger these responses aka @Hunka Hunka Burning Love

2 hours ago, Lindsey said:

Oh....Kuji Rolls....I'm sorry I asked you about your size in public.

That is why I think it is great we have next generation @travsformation to help out. 

Now to the serious side. @Kuji Rolls do you have an ETA on your next video report on the new wheels all people are talking about, I am thinking not just S18 but also V11. 

I do think this it is GREAT entertainment those videos you do. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Unventor

[travsformation]

33 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Well I guess this triggered @travsformation, somethings are just bound to happen. 

I kinda of miss the automatic (old) forum bot to trigger these responses aka @Hunka Hunka Burning Love

Someone has to do it... 

34 minutes ago, Unventor said:

2 hours ago, Lindsey said:

Oh....Kuji Rolls....I'm sorry I asked you about your size in public.

That is why I think it is great we have next generation @travsformation to help out. 

Thank you, I'm glad to be of help 

[Patton250]

3 hours ago, Chriull said:

Yes. And many others most presumably can, too.

Others can not.

We are seeing here enough harsh responses for stating ones explicitely expressed personal opinion.

The amount of sold wheels by hitting or missing their "target" group is the risk of Kingsong! They hopefully thought enough about this and made enough surveys, looked at their previous sales numbers and peeked for competitors "hottest product" to be succesful, earn money and by this will deliver us many new great wheels in the future, too!

It's understandable to post here "creating target groups" that fits with ones own needs and whises, hoping Kingsong representatives will read this and adopt the new wheels accordingly.

... sometimes whishes come true...

What i absolutely don't understand are people with harsh, unpolite replies. Borderline to bashing.

Do they think they are cool?

Or just beeing online lets some people loose the last bit of behaviour?

Or i'm getting too old and slowly start with the "everything was better in the old times" melodram...

I agree with everything you said.
 

I don’t know why people have unpolite responses. It drives me away from here from time to time because they always do. I’ve never seen so much pride wrapped around an object like I do with these EUCs. I am a member of many forums with lots of different hobbies and this particular hobby and this particular forum draws in “Experts” that like to argue back-and-forth insisting that their knowledge and EUC usage is superior rather than just discussing the wheels and having fun. In fact I only came back recently because of the excitement around the two new wheels coming out. Don’t get me wrong not even close to everyone is like that but it does happen often as you just pointed out.

[Patton250]

3 hours ago, Espen R said:

The only sacrifice Kingsong had to make when it comes to the battery size was to the god of greed. I don’t believe for a second that they couldn’t fit a larger battery because of the suspension, because then they would be incomprehensively poor at 3D design. This was a profit decision, and if they’re able to sell a lot of wheels with the current specs at a high range/high performance price, then I’m sure they’ll be happy with themselves.

 

I’m going to the dark side for my next wheel. GW here I come;)

 

If you can live with the range of this wheel, then that’s great for you. I’ll sulk in my corner and curse at the god of greed;)

 

 

 

What does greed possibly have to do with any of this? To me that makes absolutely no sense. You don’t have to answer that because I’m pretty sure your answer won’t make any sense to me either.

[Espen R]

22 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

What does greed possibly have to do with any of this? To me that makes absolutely no sense. You don’t have to answer that because I’m pretty sure your answer won’t make any sense to me either.

That's ok. Your response didn't make any sense to me, so I guess we're two people who can't communicate with eachother:)

[Patton250]

Just now, Espen R said:

That's ok. Your response didn't make any sense to me, so I guess we're two people who can't communicate with eachother:)

I can agree with that. I have a difficult time communicating the subject of business with anyone that accuses said business of being greedy. It means we don’t have a common point of reference or understanding of how business works.. Of course that doesn’t mean you and I can’t communicate and agree on many other things. :-) 

[Phong Vu]

Great! Now kiss.

JK guys  we should have fun in the forum  

I need someone to test the wheel fast.... can't wait any longer... so temped to buy the 16X....

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Espen R said:

The only sacrifice Kingsong had to make when it comes to the battery size was to the god of greed. I don’t believe for a second that they couldn’t fit a larger battery because of the suspension, because then they would be incomprehensively poor at 3D design. This was a profit decision, and if they’re able to sell a lot of wheels with the current specs at a high range/high performance price, then I’m sure they’ll be happy with themselves.

I’m going to the dark side for my next wheel. GW here I come;)

If you can live with the range of this wheel, then that’s great for you. I’ll sulk in my corner and curse at the god of greed;)

There are a lot of unknowns here yet about how space is used and build is done. If you are happy with Gotway I really think go for it do not hold back.

But that is not the same as other find these new suspension wheels interesting despite range or cost or whatever other thing people say put them off. 

I really don't think that neighter S18 or V11 is a must have. But I view this as the old 4:3 TV vs the first 16:9 flat screen TV. These days none buy a 4:3 type TV. Was the first 16:9 flat TV expensive. Is that greed, nope, It is very expensive to bring new tech to market and first adapters are the ones pay the price, as volumes go up manufacturing cost pr unit goes down, failure rate goes down mean warranty cost goes down so the cycle continues. 

Not I didn't like the S18 due to many things but I don't use the word as god of greed....in my line of work when I hear customer talk like this they are beyond my reach. There are many things they don't know about and cost of a unity to make and bring it to market is a huge part of this. 

The things I don't like are:

• They didn't make any attempt to weather prof the product. (they started this out clearly)
• They made an open design that I can only see issues with cleaning and rain and other off-road and weather stuff.
• Yes I would like more battery, but it is still more than my KS18L
• They have showcased a way too early product. To me it just gives an impression it is really ready yet. 

But there are things I do like: 

• I love that they dared to take a bold design. Even if I don't think it is practical from what I see. 
• I love they decided to bring suspension in an EUC, might be early and with compromises, but they did it never the less
• I like the development of 18"x3" as tire size as I think it is the right approach,
• They have kept a trolley that despite slightly change look useful like on my KS wheels.
•  I actually think that despite the craving for range, and not going in this direction but keeping wheel lighter is a sale point for sole, maybe not for others. 
• Getting these new suspension system out in public will only bring possibilities for improvement. it is not the last type of this wheel.
• This generate money needed to continue work on making better wheels (i don't see this as green but a different way of crowd funding)

And as a customer you have your vote by the way you buy stuff. Spend you money where you mouth is. I have not yet bought any Gotway wheel. I don't plan to either. They design philosophy do not match what I seek. But I did go early on this new trend, but it was the V11 that I settled on. 

[Unventor]

15 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I can agree with that. I have a difficult time communicating the subject of business with anyone that accuses said business of being greedy. It means we don’t have a common point of reference or understanding of how business works.. Of course that doesn’t mean you and I can’t communicate and agree on many other things. :-) 

I think that is a very right statement, and I do also think that we are not very far apart on what you have been saying above. 

[Lindsey]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

That is why I think it is great we have next generation @travsformation to help out. 

Now to the serious side. @Kuji Rolls do you have an ETA on your next video report on the new wheels all people are talking about, I am thinking not just S18 but also V11. 

I do think this it is GREAT entertainment those videos you do. 

Oh, I don't think you need to be too serious.

We are electric wheel users. There are many reviews and stories about electric wheels on YouTube and forums. I think we can look at the eyes more widely as consumers.

There are many YouTube users at this forum. It's very helpful and helpful. I like it because I can see the product from various perspectives. I want to enjoy it.

[Lindsey]

19 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

Great! Now kiss.

JK guys  we should have fun in the forum  

I need someone to test the wheel fast.... can't wait any longer... so temped to buy the 16X....

The picture is so funny.

Thanks to you, I laughed for a long time. And I just captured the picture.

I should see "NOW KISS" pictures often when I'm depressed.Thank you.

[Espen R]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

There are a lot of unknowns here yet about how space is used and build is done. If you are happy with Gotway I really think go for it do not hold back.

But that is not the same as other find these new suspension wheels interesting despite range or cost or whatever other thing people say put them off. 

I really don't think that neighter S18 or V11 is a must have. But I view this as the old 4:3 TV vs the first 16:9 flat screen TV. These days none buy a 4:3 type TV. Was the first 16:9 flat TV expensive. Is that greed, nope, It is very expensive to bring new tech to market and first adapters are the ones pay the price, as volumes go up manufacturing cost pr unit goes down, failure rate goes down mean warranty cost goes down so the cycle continues. 

Not I didn't like the S18 due to many things but I don't use the word as god of greed....in my line of work when I hear customer talk like this they are beyond my reach. There are many things they don't know about and cost of a unity to make and bring it to market is a huge part of this. 

The things I don't like are:

• They didn't make any attempt to weather prof the product. (they started this out clearly)
• They made an open design that I can only see issues with cleaning and rain and other off-road and weather stuff.
• Yes I would like more battery, but it is still more than my KS18L
• They have showcased a way too early product. To me it just gives an impression it is really ready yet. 

But there are things I do like: 

• I love that they dared to take a bold design. Even if I don't think it is practical from what I see. 
• I love they decided to bring suspension in an EUC, might be early and with compromises, but they did it never the less
• I like the development of 18"x3" as tire size as I think it is the right approach,
• They have kept a trolley that despite slightly change look useful like on my KS wheels.
•  I actually think that despite the craving for range, and not going in this direction but keeping wheel lighter is a sale point for sole, maybe not for others. 
• Getting these new suspension system out in public will only bring possibilities for improvement. it is not the last type of this wheel.
• This generate money needed to continue work on making better wheels (i don't see this as green but a different way of crowd funding)

And as a customer you have your vote by the way you buy stuff. Spend you money where you mouth is. I have not yet bought any Gotway wheel. I don't plan to either. They design philosophy do not match what I seek. But I did go early on this new trend, but it was the V11 that I settled on. 

My point with the greed thing, which was meant in an overexaggerated humorous kind of way, was that the battery size was a business decision, not because of lack of space in the design.

When Inmotion are able to develop and produce a similar product with a much larger battery pack at the same sales price, I find it strange that KS were not able to do the same. It might be because of higher development costs, but it may also be a corporate decision by someone who doesn’t understand EUC’s that much. We don’t have the facts, so we have to chose what we believe. I’m open to both, but my in my experience I find the latter more likely.

For me, if we are going to use your TV’s as an example, it’s like introducing the new 16:9 format only available in black and white. Who needs color when you have a wide screen;) If the wheel manufactures actually had to invent suspension, then I could follow you, but I see it more like an adaptation. They have a huge knowledge base on the subject they can use, and there are even readymade solutions they can use or take inspiration from. Still a lot of work, so kudos to them, but I prefer to watch TV with color, so if I had to choose between them, I would’ve gone for the V11.

PS: With a wider tire and more power-hungry motor, I doubt you’d get more normal use range with the S18 over the 18L.

I do understand your frustration with GW, but for me It’s the only sensible option at the moment, and I’m not thrilled by the prospect of owning a GW. There are a lot of hills here that I would like to traverse with a little more than walking pace, which is the reason why I feel the need for more power, and I also need more range.

[Rehab1]

On a lighter note my KS S18 arrived today.

 

[Unventor]

12 minutes ago, Espen R said:

I do understand your frustration with GW, but for me It’s the only sensible option at the moment, and I’m not thrilled by the prospect of owning a GW. There are a lot of hills here that I would like to traverse with a little more than walking pace, which is the reason why I feel the need for more power, and I also need more range

I am not frustrated about GW they just don't have my interest at all. 

You have wheels to ride now I take. So if the S18 or another wheel doesn't match you needs...or wants then you option is to wait for a better match.

How you got to know what fits inside a S18 or V11 is very hard for me to understand at this point. I am not aware of any inside pictures yet.

Some people ride long rides other don't. At least not without charging options. Kingsong can see some data on this through the use of their app. 

My longest ride yet is about 40km. One of the best selling wheels the V8 just barely do this. A S18 will be seen as a huge upgrade compared to this. Some of the key points to V8 success is light weight and price. Comparing S18 vs V11 this where the S18 did have a plus on its side. 

So design compromise to match best match to a target group and making a profit is what drives a business. It is not greed. 

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

Everyone know that the only proportion that matters in a man is the size of his...wheel (and how well he uses it) 

This guy agrees. 

 

[Unventor]

21 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This guy agrees. 

 

And geared up and provision/backpack for long distance trail rides with drones?