INMOTION V11 (2020)

[B08AH]

27 minutes ago, Unventor said:

How is the weight of KS16X working for you then?

It is tolerable.

 

Here is a little history:

When V8 came out, it was quite an advanced EUC for its time, it is very good even today, after 4 years. Compared to its main competitor - Kingsong, particularly 16S, V8 had -1.5Kg battery but -3.5Kg net weight. Some people actually added +50% battery to V8 and its performance improved greatly, not just range.

When V10 came out, it was on par with competition, Kingsong 18L had +1.5Kg weight, because of 18 inch rim and tire. Everything else is about the same.

Now V11. It has +1.5kg battery and +5kg weight compared to competition. Either InMotion falls behind, or Kingsong leaps ahead.

 

PS weight IS important. Just imagine a girl, whose own weight is 50kg, to lift it even one step. I know such a girl and she is lifting her 17kg EUC one step at a time. She can't just pick it up and carry it up the stairs. Can't imagine her with even 22kg wheel. She would break her back. 27kg is out of question.

Edited May 31, 2020 by B08AH

[Dave Wood]

37 minutes ago, B08AH said:

I actually did want to buy it. I was prepared to put up with this excessive weight just to get the only EUC with suspension. 5 days it lasted.

Now we know this guy is just trolling, the KS16X i literally just 3kg lighter than the v11, IE  lmfao basically nothing

[B08AH]

14 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

the KS16X i literally just 3kg lighter than the v11

And V10 is 3 kg lighter than 16x and 16S is 3kg lighter than V10,

V8F is 3kg lighter than 16S,

Mten is 3kg lighter than V8F.

And IPC I5 is 3kg lighter than Mten.

It is all the same, right?

[Dave Wood]

35 minutes ago, B08AH said:

Just imagine a girl, whose own weight is 50kg, to lift it even one step. I know such a girl and she is lifting her 17kg EUC one step at a time. She can't just pick it up and carry it up the stairs. Can't imagine her with even 22kg wheel. She would break her back. 

So your theory basically disqualifies EVERY wheel on the market that has a battery over 13000wh lol yet you've used it to solely bash the v11 lol.. We get it,  the v11 isn't your cup of tea and that's  fine but come on dude this is just pathetic.

[Dave Wood]

3 minutes ago, B08AH said:

And V10 is 3 kg lighter than 16x and 16S is 3kg lighter than V10,

V8F is 3kg lighter than 16S,

Mten is 3kg lighter than V8F.

And IPC I5 is 3kg lighter than Mten.

It is all the same, right?

Exactly so why are you making such a huge deal about the weight of the v11? and using gender as a argument   it been 27kg shouldn't be a problem for 95% of riders, same as the Nikola's weight is not a problem for most riders, Women ride/own that wheel despite it been roughly the same weight as a v11.

[B08AH]

43 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

So your theory basically disqualifies EVERY wheel on the market that has a battery over 13000wh

It is not a disqualification per se. Someone already mentioned in this thread that V8 outsold all GW wheels combined, not sure if it is actually true, but might be close to that, who knows. Also, V8 being lighter and weight efficient, outsold 16S even though the latter was more price efficient(not sure if it stays that way). 

Heavy EUC's are very niche product. I would not expect it to get too much sales. I am trying to advocate for KS decision to make EUC with only 1100Wh battery. They target to make a profit, not make another niche product. It worked pretty good with 18L and it will work with S18. That is just my prediction, might not actually become true. 

PS 16X is my everyday wheel and I have to tolerate its weight. It is too heavy, barely tolerable. There is quite a number of stairs to climb where I live.  And there is no light wheel to satisfy my bad knee, unfortunately. If only they made 14S successor with suspension right after S18, that would be a perfect wheel for me. 14x2.5 with suspension would be cool. 30-35kmh top speed, same 1100wh battery as S18. I can have a dream, right?

Edited May 31, 2020 by B08AH

[B08AH]

35 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

it been 27kg shouldn't be a problem for 95% of riders

My point is exactly the opposite, it is a problem for 95% riders, otherwise noone would ever buy V8, since there is a wheel on the market with almost double the battery for nearly the same price.

 

 You have to live in flatland or be very strong to enjoy such a wheel as V11. Or have 3+ wheels to choose from, maybe.

Edited May 31, 2020 by B08AH

[Phong Vu]

1 hour ago, B08AH said:Just imagine a girl, whose own weight is 50kg, to lift it even one step. I know such a girl and she is lifting her 17kg EUC one step at a time. She can't just pick it up and carry it up the stairs. Can't imagine her with even 22kg wheel. She would break her back. 27kg is out of question.

Hey, Vietnam guerrilla who weight only 50kg can carry a 80kg American soldier  

jk, I got your point tho, everyone has different needs.

[SamSuffit]

11 minutes ago, B08AH said:

My point is exactly the opposite, it is a problem for 95% riders, otherwise noone would ever buy V8, since there is a wheel on the market with almost double the battery for nearly the same price.

 

 You have to live in flatland or be very strong to enjoy such a wheel as V11. Or have 3+ wheels to choose from, maybe.

Honnestly, if V11 was below 25kgs i would have bought it. Unfortunately that is not the case. I find the KS16X a bit to heavy to my taste (24kgs), so 27kgs is a big no. Any stair or putting it in a car trunk becomes a struggle. And it is quite common in city environment.

[Coco66]

14 hours ago, B08AH said:

Ladder, big jump, also in actual offroad episode, you can see it if you pay attention. It does not launch that much, can't be seen on individual frames, but it is clearly noticeable in motion (pun intended). And one frame actually does displays this effect(attached).

Sorry mate, that's cheating.

This frame is from when Kuji said "I am going to hit the bumps with straight legs".

Gimme a break.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Coco66

[Unventor]

@B08AH it is okey not to buy the V11.

But the very reason that you dislike it is maybe to some the very reason they buy it. So despite you don't like it does not mean anyone doesn't either. If take the argument to S18 thread you might find more people that share your views. But I would expect V11 thread are followed by people that share an interest in it. 

I don't follow GW threads in general as they have very to none interest to me. I don't need the speed of those wheels. But the re is little point comming in there as an elephant in a glass house just because I dislike them. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Unventor

[Night Cowboy]

With pads his feet wouldn't leave the pedals as much. I can't imagine that would feel good having the wheel top out and start pulling you down with it, definitely not ideal. Reduced air pressure, reduced compression damping, reduced sprung mass, or greater suspension travel would all aid in keeping the rider closer to the ground and keep the pedals in contact with their feet. Hopefully the suspension is adjustable in the necessary ways on both this and the ks s18.

[Eudemir]

I have the v10 and like it a lot.   excited to see the v11.   Hope to take one on test drive and  possible buy.   

[redfoxdude]

7 hours ago, Unventor said:

The V11 don't have jump pads (yet, Inmotion has listen and looking into a solution). Kuji has been part of KS S18 design (roumered, I don't know for sure) and why the KS S18 have foot graping area near pedals. So jumping isn't really anything to do with suspenstion. The ability to grab a wheel to force it to do something is going to make a differance going up of curbs ans stairs. 

The S18 is also ~10lbs/4.5kg lighter, that probably helps, too LOL. That, and the higher proportion of sprung mass might let you use the suspension to get a little help with jumps.
InMotion's responsiveness to the community on the V11 has been really cool. I hope the seat they are working on will be more ergonomically designed than the one for the Monster. I love riding seated on my Monster, but I bet seated on the V11 is a real dream! 😄

[Heyzeus]

One of the things the s18 has going for it that I think is kind of cool is the ability to swap out the shock for a fox shock if you're an enthusiast of some sort(supposedly).

Since in motion has a proprietary shock that can't really be swapped out, it would be cool or interesting to see inmotion partner with Fox on making a more refined version of their suspension system with maybe a multi-chamber damping system or something.  Perhaps make it better and shave some weight off ???

You could have the more economical model aimed at people who don't care and just want a little bit of suspension and then a enthusiast model made in partnership with Fox aimed at people who want something even more.  kind of like you have different trim levels of the same mountain bike frame but with different suspension kits.  Fox has a lot of experience and I wouldn't be surprised if they could help in motion improve on their design without going the same route as King song.

Probably unlikely but that would be on my wish list for a second generation model of inmotion suspension wheels.

On a side note, while all the s18 versus v11 stuff is fun, obviously waiting for the second generation will probably get you something better and more refined, but whether you get the s18 or the v11 I dont think you can go wrong as long as you know what you're getting and as long as the wheels work safely.  I think it just comes down to if you have the money to burn and can afford it then either wheel will give you an interesting fun experience with their own unique approaches.

And if you don't have the money to burn, continue to enjoy your existing wheel which is probably great if it's anything made recently, my ACM hasn't stopped being a great wheel just because suspension wheels are out and I'll continue to enjoy it until I have the money to burn or it breaks(hopefully not with me on it)

Edited May 31, 2020 by Heyzeus

[B08AH]

4 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

whether you get the s18 or the v11 I dont think you can go wrong

exactly

[Zopper]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:58 PM, Tryptych said:

how do I tell my girlfriend?

 

 

 

 

 

Teach her to ride. My GF is crying because how her own V11 or S18 will hurt her purse.

[Finn Bjerke]

PADS NEEDED higher up plus a special lower pad, like this? PADS only on moveable parts.  The lower "pad" is a necksupport from a car works well.
The Kingsong pad shown here is overpriced ... add footplate too?  

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

He stopped and lifted the wheel onto the pavement!

Yeah... I’m sure he does that with all wheels that don’t have jump pads. I would, especially if I wanted to get my point across to the manufacturer. Or to underline the lack of the pads to viewers.

One thing to realize is that for every polished EUC video the author spends hours deciding what one wants to show and in which light. That lifting thing is a very calculated thing to show, knowing the background.

On 5/31/2020 at 3:53 PM, B08AH said:

My point is exactly the opposite, it is a problem for 95% riders, otherwise noone would ever buy V8, since there is a wheel on the market with almost double the battery for nearly the same price.

Your comment is based on the expectation that every buyer would succeed in choosing the wheel that is best for them. “Buy the biggest battery EUC you can afford” is an example of a comment that finds it’s way to pretty much every “Which wheel to buy” thread. Before it did, many of us made exactly that mistake, and were soon longing for a bigger wheel with a bigger battery, and ready to give up on the requirement of a light wheel. I’m sure most V8’s are bought as the first wheel, after which they soon realize how much more fun the riding is than they thought, how much farther they end up riding than they thought, and how much faster they ride than they ever thought they would.

 The V11 is absolutely not designed as a first wheel. It’s also not a wheel for short and light people. Still not as preventive as such as the Nikola though, I’d imagine. Yet I haven’t really heard the Nikola being dismissed because of its weight or even the wider top section over the competition.

Quote

You have to live in flatland or be very strong to enjoy such a wheel as V11. Or have 3+ wheels to choose from, maybe.

Again comments I haven’t heard before, even for the Monster. Makes me think it could be an excuse for a different reason altogether.

 Which is of course all fine if there is one. For example you don’t like the looks (or couldn’t live with the idea of having possibly only the second best suspension system) but don’t realize why, so you try to find other reasons why you wouldn’t like it or want it. The V11 isn’t for everybody, nor does it try to be.

[Unventor]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Which is of course all fine if there is one. For example you don’t like the looks (or couldn’t live with the idea of having possibly only the second best suspension system) but don’t realize why, so you try to find other reasons why you wouldn’t like it or want it. The V11 isn’t for everybody, nor does it try to be.

Now I think you total post above is spot on. But this part in particular is something I think you need to consider as a buyer. 

If you take speed as an example, would you be able to buy a great product despite it isn't the fastest in the market?

Would you be having benefit of a suspension system, vs another system that could be "better" or vs not having suspension at all?

If you want a lighter wheel what are you prepared to give up to make this happen?

So when you then start to look at this and compare the S18  vs V11 I simply don't see it as they are competing for same target group at all, despite both have suspension. After all you could just as well discuss trolley handle (yes some wheel don't have these at all). 

Now with that in mind I fully agree that S18 or V11 have their target group, and imo they are different, but that is still not the same that you must buy this as a customer. 

But I do like that IM are still looking into things that can expand the interest of their wheel such as making jump pads, or a seat or side lighting option or adding BT speakers (take from the Q&A list). I really have not see KS making same effort, but I am not that close to KS as I have come to be after joining IMs WhatsApp channel and how they chose to engage though here.

So a side note to the above. 

I just hope that my huge expectations to the V11 is solved at 75% as that is more than any other wheel I previous owned. I have been happy with my KS18L until service issues me and came again. Same thing with my KS16X. It was fun but it isn't working if you have to service it and ship it away as I don't have diagnostics skills or knowledge of what is going on inside the wheel and have service support to assist me. The experience with my IM wheels are a bit easier to handle. And yes I had to service those too. But I still think a simpler suspension system is a benefit to me (other customer is like to have their skills and opinions that can be very different form mine). Button line I am a rider, not a mechanic. I guess time will tell how well I think this worked out.

[WI_Hedgehog]

This is the first wheel I've been really excited about. I want a fast wheel that is well-built, especially because the faster you go, the better the build should be; going fast in/on a "parts bucket" is kind of like the pod races in Star Wars...which is not great if you're the one crashing. From the looks of it, the V11 answers that call. Plus, it has batteries in the hub! [edit: almost in the hub] It's very controllable due to a great design!

I was looking at the Gotway torque curves this weekend (@Chriull's post) , and am not so impressed--not to say anything against Gotway for this reason, they do allow disabling the warnings and don't force safeties on the rider, so that's all good. It is more to say that InMotion's speed limit of 35MPH=56kph is understandable. I'd still like more speed (say 40MPH=65kph) with the understanding this is beyond the torque curve's safe zone and riders should be very careful, knowing they should not push the wheel hard. I'd also like for InMotion to publish their torque curve so we know what to expect when it comes to riding fast.

As @Unventor says, this [first] release may not solve all the world's problems, but it is a huge improvement, and many people will be very happy. In the real world, not on a pretend specifications sheet, it appears to be a very, very good wheel, and I look forward to its release.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by WI_Hedgehog

[Nic]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Makes me think it could be an excuse for a different reason altogether.

 Which is of course all fine if there is one. For example you don’t like the looks (or couldn’t live with the idea of having possibly only the second best suspension system) but don’t realize why, so you try to find other reasons why you wouldn’t like it or want it. The V11 isn’t for everybody, nor does it try to be.

@B08AH says he likes lighter wheels that are easier for him to manage. The only two options with suspension are both heavy (V11 far too heavy) and he is left without suitable choice, so he tells us about the things he would change (weight) to make the wheel suitable for his personal needs. It sounds like criticism, but its really just him saying that this wheel is too large and heavy for his needs and he wished that it was smaller and lighter as then he would likely buy it.

We can all get a little touchy over criticism as it seems as if we are being personally criticised on our choices. Hopefully we will see some compact smaller and lighter wheels with suspension come to market. There is definitely a place for larger, heavier wheels as well as for smaller, lighter ones depending on your needs.

[musk]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

...that lifting thing is a very calculated thing to show, knowing the background.

A lot of people seem to agree with you, but I'm not convinced of this one yet for a couple reasons.  The lesser reason is that Kuji doesn't seem to be a guy who prefers to communicate through subtle hints.  The greater reason is that the curb in Kuji's video is parallel to the direction of movement, and jumping up onto a curb at that angle is not the type of jump I typically see Kuji make.  Most of his are perpendicular to the thing he's jumping.  Note, I'm not including descents in this observation, as those are much easier to pull off in a parallel situation.

Edited June 1, 2020 by musk

[mrelwood]

 

51 minutes ago, Nic said:

Hopefully we will see some compact smaller and lighter wheels with suspension come to market. There is definitely a place for larger, heavier wheels as well as for smaller, lighter ones depending on your needs.

I was talking about this just the other day. Since the suspension wheels are seemingly having a great number of preorders, the message is sent: this is what we want. As long as the sales match in reasonable numbers, we will see large 16” wheels with suspension in two years at the latest. That’s my prognosis.

50 minutes ago, musk said:

A lot of people seem to agree with you, but I'm not convinced of this one yet for a couple reasons.  The lesser reason is that Kuji doesn't seem to be a guy who prefers to communicate through subtle hints.

We all do, consciously or not. Point is, why show that specific clip at all? He must have raw footage many times the length of the review itself, plenty of clips to choose from. Or just skip the few seconds. If I was a jumper and I’d review a wheel without a traditional spot for my signature pads, that’s exactly what I would do. If I were reviewing a wheel as myself and wanted to keep the length in 15 minutes, why on earth would I show a clip like that??

[Phong Vu]

2 hours ago, musk said:

A lot of people seem to agree with you, but I'm not convinced of this one yet for a couple reasons.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

We all do, consciously or not. Point is, why show that specific clip at all?

 

I think too many people focus on the suspension.

Maybe the reason Kuji include that part is just to demo the cut-off button, and why all wheels should have it.

I personally still prefer the dedicate cut-off button from Inmotion, the most reliable and no need to maintain.
Compare to Kingsong (need to focus and wait for the beep to know if the cut-off active) or Gotway (have to reach for the button, strange hand position, not ideal of left-hand people) solutions.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Phong Vu