INMOTION V11 (2020)

[mike_bike_kite]

57 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Like I have said many times now, they (IM) mentioned it briefly but IM is more willing discussion their product than a dispute with a competitor with their customers.

You've mentioned a post referring to a court case but this is the first time I've heard you say it was an actual court case. My reason for posting was that it just sounded like one company smearing another company because they came out with a similar product at the same time. Thanks for explaining things a bit better. I'll admit I am curious what IM managed to find to copyright? I tried searching for the case but could only find your previous posts.

[onizukagto]

55 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

You've mentioned a post referring to a court case but this is the first time I've heard you say it was an actual court case. My reason for posting was that it just sounded like one company smearing another company because they came out with a similar product at the same time. Thanks for explaining things a bit better. I'll admit I am curious what IM managed to find to copyright? I tried searching for the case but could only find your previous posts.

As far as I can remember from the post, kingsong hired the same engineer who left the company and used the information to create their own suspension design. The court case was ruled along something like company espionage and ordered kingsong to not use the information and start again, something that is possible there?  I'm not familiar with the PRC Chinese legal system (even thought I'm bassd in China, as Hong Kong has a completely different legal system). 

But anyway, doesn't really matter about the details, just that Inmotion considered kingsong a "bitter rival" and I'm happy to have them throw everything into dominating this suspension wheel fight and coming out on top. 

For too long have these EUC companies been too comfortable in their niche and being buddy buddy with each other, no more nice Chinese comrades, let's get dirty.

 

[Unventor]

@onizukagto that is as much details I could get out of the matter.

And I totally agree that in the end it is likely that IM decided to say they want the top market too not just the volume market. 

As long as a few companies fight for the customers that is where we see innovations. It makes room for investment and profit to go into r&d. 

If there are too many fighting for bread it has not room for r&d, too few no need. 

End result is an EUC is not just a motor or battery upgrade anymore. It becomes a more complex matter to find "the right choice" to buy. 

[TheBladeOfHades]

In the end inmotion and king song both took their ideas from mountain bikes 😂 😝

[mrelwood]

 

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

it just sounded like one company smearing another company

GotWay boss (forgot name) openly commented on the case in a way that made me think that he also knows more  details than what has been publicly given out. While I don’t either have any hard facts, to me the accusations do seem to be true.

 

[gon2fast]

Are the V11 pedals going to be flat like the pedals on the V10? 

I would happily give back the additional charger for a more aggressive pedal angle, lol.

[AtlasP]

On 6/8/2020 at 4:05 PM, gon2fast said:

Are the V11 pedals going to be flat like the pedals on the V10? 

I would happily give back the additional charger for a more aggressive pedal angle, lol.

Here I am very strongly leaning towards selling my Nik+ for the V11 in large part to get rid of the dreadful pedal angle.

I have somewhere between 750-1000 miles on the Nik+ and still unequivocally hate the pedal angle. The blanket "you'll get used to it" people are full of sh1t.  I think it must be in part physiological/different for each person based on the construction of their ankles/legs/etc, because I'm long past the point where I should've gotten used to it if such a thing were possible.

(More broadly, *all* pedal mounts should be level, and then pedal angle should be a function of the pedal shape, with you able to choose or swap out different pedals for what you want. The GW wheels having the pedal angle on the wheel/mount side is a terrible design.)

Edited June 10, 2020 by AtlasP

[FreeRide]

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

You've mentioned a post referring to a court case but this is the first time I've heard you say it was an actual court case. ....

You're not reading enough posts 

You can feel lucky though, most of the posts on V11 and S18 were bananas.  You saved yourself a lot of time.

[UniVehje]

7 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Are the V11 pedals going to be flat like the pedals on the V10? 

I would happily give back the additional charger for a more aggressive pedal angle, lol.

If your V10 has completely flat pedals it’s because of the design flaw on old style pedals. The material was too soft and the contact point too small. They should have about 2 degree angle. 
 

Personally I prefer the shallow angle like the V10 and 18Xl. It’s always possible to insert something under the contact point and make it steeper. 

[musk]

7 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Here I am very strongly leaning towards selling my Nik+ for the V11 in large part to get rid of the dreadful pedal angle.

I have somewhere between 750-1000 miles on the Nik+ and still unequivocally hate the pedal angle. The "you'll get used to it" people are full of sh1t.  I think it must be in part physiological/different for each person based on the construction of their ankles/legs/etc, because I'm long past the point where I should've gotten used to it if such a thing were possible.

(More broadly, *all* pedal mounts should be level, and then pedal angle should be a function of the pedal shape, with you able to choose or swap out different pedals for what you want. The GW wheels having the pedal angle on the wheel/mount side is a terrible design.)

It'd be nice if there was a large grub screw near where pedals mate with the pedal holder.  By default the screw could be tightened flush with the normal bracket surface and leave the pedals flat, but the screw could be partially backed-out to give the pedal more angle based on the user's preference.

Edited June 9, 2020 by musk

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, musk said:

It'd be nice if there was a large grub screw near where pedals mate with the pedal holder.  By default the screw could be tightened flush with the normal bracket surface and leave the pedals flat, but the screw could be partially backed-out to give the pedal more angle based on the user's preference.

They mentioned they are looking at adjustable pedal angel but not for the V11., but for future wheels. Properly something like what you are suggesting. This came out when I asked for magnetic pedal hold like the Z10 or KS16X. It seems that that input didn't get picked up by their engineers. On the other hand it is a "fairly" easy modification to do I think. It is only a matter to get a right strength on magnets and Opening a pedal to insert a magnet. I think you can mount the other magnet on the moving pedal arm to the saddle part. On the other hand since we don't see end product yet this change might still come as I hope for. I know @mrelwood said he didn't like it as it tends to make pedals rattle when trolleying over rough terrain. But it has never been an issue with my KS16x.

[kurt_hectic]

Any info. About delays? End of the month is coming quickly and it seems they aren't shipping yet?

[onizukagto]

I reckon it'll be at least a month or two delay. A lot of mainland factories that were meant to come back online last month/this month due to the lifting of pandemic restrictions, have suddenly gone under (bankrupted/re-alligned resources to other revenues). Been a bit of a mad frantic reshuffling of logistic and supply chain for companies who have stuff manufactured there, unless the company has everything made in-house. 

(personal experience) 

Edited June 9, 2020 by onizukagto

[Unventor]

They said it would be delayed 1 month-ish....

But I have not heard any thing else. 

But speaking of news I saw just now the S18 got plastic and aluminium parts upgraded to steel parts raising weight from 22kg to 25kg. I guess the didn't bother to make it in stainless steel, as it didn't say so in announcement from KS.

But with this the weight between the wheels are now marginal in my view. What the change does to responsiveness since those parts are heavier is also a bit unknown. Might not mean anything.

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

They said it would be delayed 1 month-ish....

But I have not heard any thing else. 

But speaking of news I saw just now the S18 got plastic and aluminium parts upgraded to steel parts raising weight from 22kg to 25kg. I guess the didn't bother to make it in stainless steel, as it didn't say so in announcement from KS.

But with this the weight between the wheels are now marginal in my view. What the change does to responsiveness since those parts are heavier is also a bit unknown. Might not mean anything.

I've been told they changed it from aluminium to steel parts i wonder if something broke or bent 🤔

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

I've been told they changed it from aluminium to steel parts i wonder if something broke or bent 🤔

I think it is likely to have been bend after a tumble as aluminium is a relative soft and week metal, only used for its corrosion and light weight, or it could be down to being cheaper to make.

[stephen]

Live unboxing of the v11 

 

[stephen]

I can't understand when he measures the pedal height from compressed to fully open there's only an inch in it wouldn't that be the travel 😂 1 inch of suspension 😂😂 I'm sure he needs to pump it up first plus you've got your compressed weight to take into account

And the pump I'm sure he's got that wrong that's a high pressure pump for shocks for the suspensionI

I'd  of liked to see it turned on lol no app☹️ ace 😁

Overall i like it though he just got a few things wrong ,can't wait for some riding demos and other people's opinions 👍👍

[.....]

Yeah, that unboxing wasnt worth my bandwidth. I know, Im not a very nice guy, but it just seems like theres a lot of this 'fumble fucking' going on. I mean shit, if you are representing a company, what happened to it being someone who has a clue? If you're unsure, admit it and move on, dont fukn speculate as it makes you look stupid. I know it was live, but I do think this could have been more useful. Tbh, I think the unboxing somewhat undermines my faith in the presenting company.  Where's the tech minded and prepared youth these days? Making free videos as a consumer means you can make total crap videos. Representing a company means a much higher standard. I honestly know nothing more about this than I did. I now know that I cant expect everyone to understand the complexities of a high pressure air pump.

Edited June 11, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[stephen]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Yeah, that unboxing wasnt worth my bandwidth. I know, Im not a very nice guy, but it just seems like theres a lot of this 'fumble fucking' going on. I mean shit, if you are representing a company, what happened to it being someone who has a clue? If you're unsure, admit it and move on, dont fukn speculate as it makes you look stupid. I know it was live, but I do think this could have been more useful. Tbh, I think the unboxing somewhat undermines my faith in the presenting company.  Where's the tech minded and prepared youth these days? Making free videos as a consumer means you can make total crap videos. Representing a company means a much higher standard. I honestly know nothing more about this than I did. I now know that I cant expect everyone to understand the complexities of a high pressure air pump.

Your not a very nice guy 😂 we all have our different personalities shane if we was all the same we would be a boring race👍👍, sorry about my grammar/spelling to ,I'm sure people can work it out 😁😁

He just made the v11 more unappealing than appealling lol

Looks nice though, I'm glad i know more than the inexperienced viewer

Edited June 11, 2020 by stephen

[mike_bike_kite]

For the first minute it looked like a hostage video. I'd suggest they work out what they're going to comment on in advance then work out how the camera works and get volumes correct. I remember watching one of their videos before and regretting it. There's only so long I can watch a person in a mask mumble in front of a cardboard box - 8 minutes was well beyond my tolerance. He did have a few useful things to say in the remaining 25 mins but the whole thing could easily of been done in 5 mins. I'll freely admit I never understood the appeal of unboxing videos. I understand them even less now.

[Tryptych]

3 hours ago, stephen said:

Live unboxing of the v11 

 

Good video, thanks for posting , I am starved for more V11 videos! 

 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Your not a very nice guy 😂 we all have our different personalities shane if we was all the same we would be a boring race👍👍, sorry about my grammar/spelling to ,I'm sure people can work it out 😁😁

He just made the v11 more unappealing than appealling lol

Looks nice though, I'm glad i know more than the inexperienced viewer

Well I am not entirely agreeing here. 

There are a few first things I have not really seen on other places. I think the overall look at really great. But yes it is a matter of opinion. I am look at details that isn't shared like the way you see the shell cover is attacked. I like they have hex screws instead of the V10F under padding screws and snap on/off that results in breaking  the cover if you don't see the trick to open it. 

Now pedal height is pretty useless info now that it is changing to be between 24cm to 14cm (confirmed info from Liam, Inmotion Marketing manager). This change has not been done as I understanding it to the pre-products samples that shipped out. This is however something that is going to be interesting as I wounder how it will impact control and ride sensation.

Now there has always been this cry out for wheels being too noise (motor frequencies) but that fan on the MSP I think that is loud, and I personally don't like fan noise. How much you hear in ride condition might be a different matter. Now The V11 did have fan noise too to cool down the headlight. I know from my bike LED 3200 lumen light that it get pretty hot on it passive cooling so I guess there really isn't anyway around this. (You don't want another lamp issue as on 1st batch KS18L due to too little cooling).

Looking at the V11 to the KS16X that I can relate too fairly wheel despite mine is on service for a 2nd time just short of 1000Km under warranty (look to be a control board issue and possible rim valve hole correction too, from the last news I got, still waiting for a final okey message). The V11 comes out as a very slim wheel with that battery capacity. Now Kuji said it touched a little higher on his legs than he used to, but that point I guess shift down as the pedal height will be raised on final product. 

I am pretty stoked to get my V11 but I know it will be late this summer, more likely in the autumn as I got my order in "late" (like 3 days) to the first batch confirmation cut date.

I am waiting to see more reviews to pop up and for Ecodrift doing that opening of the shell to peek inside. 

[mike_bike_kite]

That noise from the MSP was appalling - that's cleared it off my list of dream wheels. I'll admit I was really impressed by the slimness of the V11. The light we already know is good. Weirdly though I'd prefer this wheel without the suspension and without the large turret sitting on top of the wheel - I could live with slightly less powerful LED lights perhaps fitted into the side shell. I fully understand people wanting the V11 as it looks a very finished product.

[Unventor]

21 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

That noise from the MSP was appalling - that's cleared it off my list of dream wheels. I'll admit I was really impressed by the slimness of the V11. The light we already know is good. Weirdly though I'd prefer this wheel without the suspension and without the large turret sitting on top of the wheel - I could live with slightly less powerful LED lights perhaps fitted into the side shell. I fully understand people wanting the V11 as it looks a very finished product.

Well IM have another wheel set to release in October (non-suspension) properly a 16". But details are very very limited so far. Should be first with AI to adjust wheel to riders ride behaviour. But how that works out is a bit up in the air. I think it is interesting.