INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Jon Stern]

1 hour ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

I thought I heard it can hit upwards of 5000w peak from one of the interviews 

I heard that if you can get it up to 88mph, the motor will hit 1.21 gigawatts, and you'll go back in time.

I think I read that on Twitter.

[onizukagto]

2 hours ago, TheBladeOfHades said:

I thought I heard it can hit upwards of 5000w peak from one of the interviews 

I wasn't entirely sure if the spec sheet said 3000w but I knew it was more the 2500w. but if they said 5000w, that's mental! talk about overhead.  lol

[mrelwood]

44 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

I wasn't entirely sure if the spec sheet said 3000w but I knew it was more the 2500w. but if they said 5000w, that's mental! talk about overhead.  lol

When the V11 was introduced, 3000W was stated as the max output power of the controller.

 Regarding the theories on the increase to 2200W, worth remembering that the battery, the controller and the motor each have their separate wattage ratings, both maximum and continuous. To assess a wheel’s output power we would have to know most of these six values. Continuous power handling of the motor being the least important one, although for some reason it is usually the only one announced.

 My guess is that the increase to 2200W was fueled by Kingsong’s similar increase (which doesn’t seem to have actually increased anything), and IM probably just assessed whether their motor could be called a 2200W one or not.

[Zopper]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

When the V11 was introduced, 3000W was stated as the max output power of the controller.

The Q&A in the official thread sounds like even then they thought they can get more of it, just don't know what will they end up it with:

Quote

... Like extreme condition, like bumps, climbing hills, the wheel will generate mass power that is much stronger than the rated power 2000w. It might be 3000w, 4000w, 5000w in peak power. In other words, the peak power of V11 is much stronger than V10F.

 

27 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 My guess is that the increase to 2200W was fueled by Kingsong’s similar increase (which doesn’t seem to have actually increased anything), and IM probably just assessed whether their motor could be called a 2200W one or not.

There was a battery cell upgrade AFAIK which might allow it. It is mentioned several times in this thread and while I can't find an official source, I think it might come from one of Inmotion's chat channels. But we will know for sure only when first wheels hits the road.

[mrelwood]

5 minutes ago, Zopper said:

There was a battery cell upgrade AFAIK which might allow it.

As I wrote in my post, the battery is a completely separate entity, and doesn’t affect the motor’s power handling capabilities. The nominal power rating of an electric motor tells us nothing about how much power the motor can put out. It only tells us how much power it can handle for an extended period of time. You can have a 2200W motor on a wheel without any batteries, it’s still a 2200W motor. 

[Zopper]

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

As I wrote in my post, the battery is a completely separate entity, and doesn’t affect the motor’s power handling capabilities. The nominal power rating of an electric motor tells us nothing about how much power the motor can put out. It only tells us how much power it can handle for an extended period of time. You can have a 2200W motor on a wheel without any batteries, it’s still a 2200W motor. 

Yes. But the rating of the wheel is for the whole. So if the controller and motor both can manage more continuous power and it was the battery that kept the rating at 2kW, then the change of battery cells would allow for higher power rating of the wheel.

EDIT: Anyway, I don't think that there would be a part that would be disproportionally different in power rating from the others - that would be wasting money. Even if they plan to do an upgrade down the road, it probably doesn't make sense to pack e.g. a 5kW and 3kW parts together unless the upgrade is coming soon or if the weakest part is also some kind of an emergency fuse (read: intentionally the first thing to break during an overload, easiest and cheapest to replace).

Edited June 28, 2020 by Zopper

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Zopper said:

Yes. But the rating of the wheel is for the whole. So if the controller and motor both can manage more continuous power and it was the battery that kept the rating at 2kW, then the change of battery cells would allow for higher power rating of the wheel.

Nope. We’ve never had rating for the whole wheel, on any wheel. Motor’s nominal rating means what the motor can take (continuously), not what it gives. The power coming from the batteries can peak very high and AFAIK Inmotion is the first manufacturer to even speak about controller output (throughput?), which is more important. And the peaks are always higher, it’s the wires and components that can’t handle the current very long.
Unfortunately we don’t have a simple number to compare all the wheels like the kW or hp rating for IC engines. But that’s what everyone is going to do anyway, hence the need for manufacturers to compete on who can announce bigger number for the motor. 

[Unventor]

So a little historical look back what Inmotion said about specifications.

At launch they rated the motor at 2000w. But they talked about the electronics being able to handle 3000w. 

Why they spend so much time on this you have to look back to the V10f. It just couldn't handle high loads as electronics would overheat.

The reason why it overheated seems to be the mosfects and how the cooling of those was done. Now I have not checked if they changed something but it seems later build V10f handle themself much better. 

So they said they doubled the mosfects in V11 so it should no longer be a bottleneck. They also using heatpipe system to make cooling more efficient. It been talked about but I have not seen pictures of it (yet).

Employee at Inmotion said Friday/Saturday that they are meeting in factory to build first initial batch of production wheels. These are going out globally spread between dealer. Next run is going out as orders was taken. They will be practical identical as no feedback will be able to come in since this is back to back production. Look at it as small scale production rampled up to mass production.

So looking at the numbers why some speak of higher watt rating comes from different wheels. It depends on where the read out is done and how you are able to see spikes in delivery. For very very brief moments you can reach insanely high peaks (in any brands) but you never really see this reported. With most KS and GW wheels you can get 2x the power rating of the motor but it is in small bursts. I would expect the same from the V11. So it might even be able to hit 5000w in a very very short time. But that really isn't useful as you can count on it it depends what you have done while riding and you need to have nearly full battery. Also doing these kind of losds frequently could push battery to last less in charge cycles.

Now the change from motor rating of 2000w to 2200w I think is due to testing and they are using the motor different due to optimisation of firmware. So they now allow the motor to pull more sustained power, could be to better cells. They talked about the mode from domestic cells to LG with better rating was done due to customer feedback. In the end I think they found the branded cell would sell better than a non-branded cell and the battery capacity gab would be better to S18 too.

This the picture post from the Inmotion employee (Frank)

[onizukagto]

heatpipes in EUC?!  wow!

probably the first I've heard of that, very excited to see how they perform under real world performance and how it'll help towards cooling and waterproofing. 

[z3n]

8 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

I heard that if you can get it up to 88mph, the motor will hit 1.21 gigawatts, and you'll go back in time.

I think I read that on Twitter.

LOL... but I heard it only works for a DeLorean. 

[stephen]

Another duf vid😁

 

[onizukagto]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/electricunicycleclub/permalink/1520483204780090/?sfnsn=mo

found these close up pictures of the v11 on Facebook.

I like the top down shot, you can really look into the space between the wheel and the ”saddle”(?) looks well enclosed, guess that's where the heatpipe are exposed to the fans?

[Sentient]

Thanks for sharing the pics. This ECU is shaping up to be the real deal.

[chrisdab]

Suspension questions.

1. Does anyone know if the V11 has a positive and negative air chamber in it's shock system. I am guessing there isn't as the V11 shocks are custom developed by Inmotion.
2. If there is only a positive air chamber, how will the ride performance differ between whether or not there is a negative chamber? From what I have learned, the negative air chamber affects the suspension recoil feel and sag.

[Spooky Chaser]

28 minutes ago, chrisdab said:

Suspension questions.

1. Does anyone know if the V11 has a positive and negative air chamber in it's shock system. I am guessing there isn't as the V11 shocks are custom developed by Inmotion.
2. If there is only a positive air chamber, how will the ride performance differ between whether or not there is a negative chamber? From what I have learned, the negative air chamber affects the suspension recoil feel and sag.

Can't find any info on (1), but to answer (2): the shocks just fill in the negative chamber themselves instead of manually adding it in. You lose the customization of fine tuning both, but it's far easier to design a wheel with access to just one chamber instead of two.

From what people are saying about the production unit on the S18, it's also likely to only have access to the positive chamber instead of both.

[chrisdab]

2 hours ago, Spook Chaser said:

Can't find any info on (1), but to answer (2): the shocks just fill in the negative chamber themselves instead of manually adding it in. You lose the customization of fine tuning both, but it's far easier to design a wheel with access to just one chamber instead of two.

From what people are saying about the production unit on the S18, it's also likely to only have access to the positive chamber instead of both.

That wasn't really an answer to 2 either, just explaining how a two chamber system with only one adjustment works. How would performance on a one chamber system differ from a two chamber suspension in ride quality?

[Unventor]

8 minutes ago, chrisdab said:

That wasn't really an answer to 2 either, just explaining how a two chamber system with only one adjustment works. How would performance on a one chamber system differ from a two chamber suspension in ride quality?

You will know it you test it one day. 

[AtlasP]

From the Wall Street Journal:

[.....]

oh shit... we're in trouble now.  WallStreet journal.... bring on the politicians...

[Flying W]

Damn, who'd have thought adding suspension would get our hobby in the wall street journal.....time to stock up on fast wheels before they get regulated lol

[FreeRide]

1 hour ago, Flying W said:

Damn, who'd have thought adding suspension would get our hobby in the wall street journal.....time to stock up on fast wheels before they get regulated lol

hmmm in this section, this could be more of a promotional piece.

[Unventor]

Ohh dear... so we are now getting an yuppie wheel?

[onizukagto]

or does that make us the YUPPIES?

[onizukagto]

haha. third parties are already thinking of seat accessories,  before inmotion gets on it.  

[kurt_hectic]

8 hours ago, chrisdab said:

That wasn't really an answer to 2 either, just explaining how a two chamber system with only one adjustment works. How would performance on a one chamber system differ from a two chamber suspension in ride quality?

There is no one chamber system I'm aware of. The difference is 2vs1 valve. In bike world, even when 2 valves give you more options new forks have only 1. Negative chamber is filled/balanced automatically.