KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Marty Backe]

49 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

@Marty Backe
Perhaps not everyone is playing BT Music with significant bass or riding in high EM field areas he said hopefully?

(But yes I suspect you may be correct in that they probably need to add shielding to the control, and maybe some filters on the power lines).  It only ever really occurs once in a while, and once in a ride.  So far never at speed either.  Still, it's a trust issue because clearly it IS DOING the wrong thing, and I'd hate for it to decide to do that wrong thing at a really bad time.

<sigh>  No such problems with your Nikola eh?  I dislike the looks of the Roomba, but problem free would be a nice change of pace for a while...  on the other hand it really does feel like a grown up mTen3 - and I love that.

Only my Z10 has had ongoing pedal calibration issues.

I look forward to getting the 16X so that I can put my spin on the differences between it and the Nikola.

[HarpMudd]

Definitely seems like a hardware issue. I’ve only calibrated my wheel 1x and never had a tilt back or tilt forward issue. I play music over Bluetooth 90% of the time I ride. I have over 140miles on the wheel and weight about 145lbs.

[Old Glider]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Only my Z10 has had ongoing pedal calibration issues.

I look forward to getting the 16X so that I can put my spin on the differences between it and the Nikola.

When do you expect to get the 16x @Marty Backe?

Ps. You’re gonna have to start hanging your wheels from the trees to get them all in the panorama picture! 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Old Glider

[CampDylan]

Snail Mail

 

So I opted for the slow shipping on mine and put the $500 down over a month ago.  I still haven't been asked for the balance of the payment.  Does this mean my wheel is still in China?  I mean with all that's transpired here on this thread I don't mind at all waiting even longer if they'll actually fix the problem before it even leaves the factory.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by CampDylan

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, CampDylan said:

Snail Mail

 

So I opted for the slow shipping on mine and put the $500 down over a month ago.  I still haven't been asked for the balance of the payment.  Does this mean my wheel is still in China?  I mean with all that's transpired here on this thread I don't mind at all waiting even longer if they'll actually fix the problem before it even leaves the factory.

 

Only your dealer can answer what happens with your shipment.

[Heyzeus]

3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

The 16X became a lot more enjoyable once I got the tire pressure dialed in. This tire is super finicky and sensitive. 1-2 PSI is the difference between a wobbly mess and buttery smooth carving nirvana.

That's a bit disappointing, maybe it's just a Learning curve thing, But if it's not and that persists then that's unfortunate.

I Ride my ACM at anywhere between 42 some PSI to 28-30 psi depending how long I go between checking the tire pressure and it generally feels good anywhere in that range.  Having one to two PSI makes such a difference would be quite annoying

[Marty Backe]

24 minutes ago, Old Glider said:

When do you expect to get the 16x @Marty Backe?

Ps. You’re gonna have to start hanging your wheels from the trees to get them all in the panorama picture! 

It's probably going to be September 

[Unventor]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

It's probably going to be September 

2020ish 

[Old Glider]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It's probably going to be September 

Bummer!

[Kens]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

2020ish 

Bummerer!!

[Mike Paolini]

9 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

That's a bit disappointing, maybe it's just a Learning curve thing, But if it's not and that persists then that's unfortunate.

I Ride my ACM at anywhere between 42 some PSI to 28-30 psi depending how long I go between checking the tire pressure and it generally feels good anywhere in that range.  Having one to two PSI makes such a difference would be quite annoying

@Heyzeus  I've not seen any real change in ride vs wobbles with PSI adjust meant on the KS16x.  I've run it from 18PSI to 45PSI.   The tire is designed for 35-45 PSI, and at anything less than 30 PSI it feels terribly under inflated and that it looses it shape.   My personal ride places it a t 40PSI, but yea this beastie wobbles, for me, if you don't have perfect form and a tight grip on it while decelerating.    Hoping the various fixes in the pipe line help it frankly.  

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, Heyzeus said:

That's a bit disappointing, maybe it's just a Learning curve thing, But if it's not and that persists then that's unfortunate.

I Ride my ACM at anywhere between 42 some PSI to 28-30 psi depending how long I go between checking the tire pressure and it generally feels good anywhere in that range.  Having one to two PSI makes such a difference would be quite annoying

It's simply a ridiculous claim.Pretty sure nobody here is able to tell a 1PSI difference, no matter on what wheel. Moreover with the way those valves are installed and I presume nobody here is using a high end calibrated pressure gauge, it's impossible to get the pressure right to the level of 1PSI. As soon as you need to unscrew something from the valve you will have a pressure difference.

Oh and let's not forget that riding also influences this. Go ride 20mph for a couple of minutes and feel your tire. It will be warm. What do you think happens with tire pressures on a warm wheel? Go ride outside when its 40C, then go ride outside when it's 10C. It all influences this. Pretty sure nobody here is playing with their tire on the road to finetune hot pressures while riding (as we do on our racing cars), certainly not to a 1 PSI level.

 

 

[Mishkin]

I appreciate the passionate and detailed enthusiast grade comments and analysis here (whether all of the comments resonate with me or not), but for a high level view can I please ask for some indication of if you own a 16X and are happy with it overall (comparative to you experience and any other wheels you own or have ridden) or are unhappy with it overall.

I am a prospective buyer of the 16X. I'm only approaching my first year as an EUC owner and rider with a KS16S and my experience on other wheels is very limited in both models/sizes and time. As a result, I'm heavily reliant on resources like this Community for opinion and insight and I am sure many other newcomers to EUC's or people similar to me (quiet forum idlers) might also be.

I'm unaware of how to create polls (even if we can at all?), so a simple upvote on this post if you have a 16X and are happy overall, or downvote if you have a 16X and are unhappy overall would be insightful. Everyone's objectivity is different of course but try and exclude consideration of the initial oscillation (Kuji), or pedal dip issues which we expect to be resolved.

If someone has a better suggestion on how to poll, I'd appreciate it! I'm just really keen to see how many owners we have at the moment and a "happy" / "unhappy" evaluation, or am I asking the impossible?!!  

Cheers!

Edited August 7, 2019 by Mishkin

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, Mishkin said:

I appreciate the passionate and detailed enthusiast grade comments and analysis here (whether all of the comments resonate with me or not), but for a high level view can I please ask for some indication of if you own a 16X and are happy with it overall (comparative to you experience and any other wheels you own or have ridden) or are unhappy with it overall.

I am a prospective buyer of the 16X. I'm only approaching my first year as an EUC owner and rider with a KS16S and my experience on other wheels is very limited in both models/sizes and time. As a result, I'm heavily reliant on resources like this Community for opinion and insight and I am sure many other newcomers to EUC's or people similar to me (quiet forum idlers) might also be.

I'm unaware of how to create polls (even if we can at all?), so a simple upvote on this post if you have a 16X and are happy overall, or downvote if you have a 16X and are unhappy overall would be insightful. Everyone's objectivity is different of course but try and exclude consideration of the initial oscillation (Kuji) issues which we expect to be resolved.

If someone has a better suggestion on how to poll, I'd appreciate it! I'm just really keen to see how many owners we have at the moment and a "happy" / "unhappy" evaluation (or am I asking the impossible?!!  

Cheers!

 I absolutely unequivocally love my KS16X.  It’s the best wheel I own.  I have had zero, I repeat zero problems with it other than the first 10 minutes of getting it set right and that was only my ignorance with the app and not the wheel itself.  I am more confused then anyone at some of the drama and commentary written about this wheel.  If some of the things people have said  had been occurring on my wheel I would’ve packed that happy thing right back up and sent it back to Jason.  You know maybe you should think twice about getting it because if you believe everything you read here we have a full-blown 16X crisis on our hands.  Well maybe not full-blown but getting there. Lol.  I can’t tell if people are serious or we just have brand envy/competition/ slander going on.  I sincerely don’t know  I’ve seen this type a thing before on other forums with cameras, guns or Radar Detectors.  A company launches a brand new product and all of a sudden there’s tons of “problems” with it followed by commentary from tons of people mostly those who don’t even own one.  If you think the EUC world is brutal try cameras. Lol. Oh well.  I’ll joking aside if you like the specs of this wheel I suggest you get it. It’s awesome IMHO. 

[Unventor]

@Mishkin I think you actually hit it spot on with you question.

I can only give you a middle short answer: bought it, but don't have it yet. I am 120% confident that I will love some but not all of its behaviour after the upcoming fw update. 

Reason why I am so confident is it is a KS wheel and that KS can fine tune a lot with fw. I bought a KS18L 1st batch too, had 2 issues (hw) reworked and loved it. Then a year later we got a new fw that made almost like a new wheel even better than before. 

So the pedegre is there to make it happen. Call it brand blindness or loyalty or faith... If you don't think or feel confident in the same way, do not buy 1st batch (from any brand). 

There are other wheels to choose from, but depending on what you seek KS16X might just be for you now, maybe later or not at all. 

That is the simple and best objective answer I can give to you most excellent question, IMHO. 😉

Edited August 7, 2019 by Unventor

[HarpMudd]

I’m loving the wheel right now and can say all the issues I’m experiencing myself is due to the learning curve. Coming from a V8, there’s a lot more to wrangle in moving to a big and powerful wheel, but the journey has been nothing but fun as long as you’re willing to learn and have an open mind. Nothing more exhilarating than cruising fast on the road and carving off-road. It’s truly been a blast.

[eddiemoy]

I just changed my tire today to a CST tire.  It is the same that is on the Nikola.  No rubbing.  I didn’t really get a chance to take it out for a spin.  I did get used to the gyro feel and started to like it.  But I like the normal non-gyro more.  So I decided to change the tire.  Another rider did the same and he is reporting total loss of the gyro feel.  He also was getting used to the gyro feel.  

His is saying it is more stable at high speeds. Less effort to go fast as well.  

[BleepBloopBlop]

@eddiemoy Where did you purchase the tire? I'm coming up on 500 miles on my 16X and figure its a good time to order a backup tire and tube to have around for when I damage the factory tire or wear it out. 

[Mike Paolini]

Welcome.

I own a KS16x

The KS16x will be a "killer" wheel when they get it all fixed up, the hope is it is *not* a *killer* wheel while they work out the issues (random tilt - BT interface - I'm told it's addressed, oscillation - I'm told it's addressed, App voltage reporting and Speed Limiter (I'm told it's addressed).  

The one thing that isn't clear is the possible rider induced left right wobble - most EUC's I can ride without wobble breaking, without having to touch their sides to stabilize.  Not this one.  I have to grip it and hold it steady. Maybe it's me, but then it don't happen on the KS18XL, the mSuper, the z10, the MCM5 or the mTen3.    Could also be the tire I suppose (unbalanced?).

In general, the question is if I were buying right now, would I buy the KS16x or something else.   I *think* I'd buy the KS16x again because it is fun and zippy, even with the issues (contingent on them fixing the issues).  Otherwise I'd go Nikola.  

Edited August 7, 2019 by Mike Paolini

[eddiemoy]

Just now, BleepBloopBlop said:

@eddiemoy Where did you purchase the tire? I'm coming up on 500 miles on my 16X and figure its a good time to order a backup tire and tube to have around for when I damage the factory tire or wear it out. 

ewheels.

[meepmeepmayer]

56 minutes ago, Mishkin said:

I'm unaware of how to create polls (even if we can at all?)

Everyone can make a poll. Just start a new topic, there's a "poll" tab at the top next to "content" where you can create your poll. On mobile, if you tap "content" at the top, you can switch to "poll".

And don't be shy about making new topics. Especially new people, everyone is welcome to make all the topics (and polls) you want, if they fit what you want better! Be it for a specific question or as "your" topic. Better than everything mixed one topic or bumping ancient threads. You can still link to smaller topics from a big thread like this, and they won't get lost.

[chrisjunlee]

7 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

It's simply a ridiculous claim.Pretty sure nobody here is able to tell a 1PSI difference, no matter on what wheel. Moreover with the way those valves are installed and I presume nobody here is using a high end calibrated pressure gauge, it's impossible to get the pressure right to the level of 1PSI. As soon as you need to unscrew something from the valve you will have a pressure difference.

Oh and let's not forget that riding also influences this. Go ride 20mph for a couple of minutes and feel your tire. It will be warm. What do you think happens with tire pressures on a warm wheel? Go ride outside when its 40C, then go ride outside when it's 10C. It all influences this. Pretty sure nobody here is playing with their tire on the road to finetune hot pressures while riding (as we do on our racing cars), certainly not to a 1 PSI level.

Not sure why you're set on invalidating anything and everything I say. From bickering over fundamental laws of physics (newsflash: Physics is correct, you're not) and now to this? 

I have been graciously patient up to now, and now, I am no longer engaging in discussions with you. 

To everyone else: Using my high accuracy gauge, I can tell a clear difference between 18 and 20 PSI. That is the inflection point in the tire feel for my bodyweight.

Comparatively, there isn't as drastic change between 20-30 PSI.

The point being: if you don't like how the wheel feels, try different tire pressures, and dial it in. Start with 5 PSI increments, give it 10 miles, then dial it in. At least for me, that made all the difference in disliking to loving this wheel.

Edit: I am willing to admit it may be placebo. Who knows. Just try it out

Edited August 8, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Jeff Earl]

36 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I just changed my tire today to a CST tire.  ...

@eddiemoy Congrats on the successful tire swap. Good to know that the CST rubber is compatible with the 16X despite the rumors to the contrary. I, for one, would love to know how easy or challenging the disassembly process was. Were you able to reattach the screw-concealing padding without too much marring? Did the internal build quality seem up to snuff? I'm weeks away from my delivery, but I anticipate taking mine apart to see what's what pretty early on. Any and all tips/suggestions are appreciated.

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

I just changed my tire today to a CST tire.  It is the same that is on the Nikola.  No rubbing.  I didn’t really get a chance to take it out for a spin.  I did get used to the gyro feel and started to like it.  But I like the normal non-gyro more.  So I decided to change the tire.  Another rider did the same and he is reporting total loss of the gyro feel.  He also was getting used to the gyro feel.  

His is saying it is more stable at high speeds. Less effort to go fast as well.  

I guess we caught Kingsong lying? They claimed to have evaluated the CST and determined it wasn't a best fit.

[eddiemoy]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Earl said:

@eddiemoy Congrats on the successful tire swap. Good to know that the CST rubber is compatible with the 16X despite the rumors to the contrary. I, for one, would love to know how easy or challenging the disassembly process was. Were you able to reattach the screw-concealing padding without too much marring? Did the internal build quality seem up to snuff? I'm weeks away from my delivery, but I anticipate taking mine apart to see what's what pretty early on. Any and all tips/suggestions are appreciated.

It takes about a little over an hour and proper tools to take off these bigger thicker tires.  Ecodrift teardown pictures helped.

https://ecodrift.ru/2019/06/24/kingsong-ks-16x-disassembling/?fbclid=IwAR3HABqnm4HhJNQDKxrvC0Ljc8HHZ5wqe0aRd7OdpfaQxSuQ3BfiHAHTOyY

I was impatient and ripped the side pads while trying to reveal the screws.  I also stripped on of the deep screws by over tightening.  

You need long 15.5" tire irons.  Don't think you can change the tire using the crappy 4" plastic tire irons.  

The build isn't as good as I hoped.  The wiring isn't as neat as I hoped.  But a world better than Gotway.  Gotway just seems like some kid put it together.  

Side covers are held together with 10 screws each side.  

There are only two wires you need to disconnect.  Motor wire and hall sensor.  It is covered with some water proof goo.  The motor wire is held together with zip tie.  You have to remove the LED strip from both sides to slide the unit down.