KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[chrisjunlee]

2 hours ago, buell47 said:

Can some other confirm that?

If this is true, what can the reason for that? 

I ordered the 16X to drive it offroad and of course also extreme slopes where my V8 fails. 

To play Devil's advocate: BIG DISCLAIMER: I'm a newbie going on 6 weeks, so it's probably my technique. I'm also just 200 miles into this wheel, and unfairly comparing it to the MCM5 and mten3. 

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, buell47 said:

I ordered the 16X to drive it offroad and of course also extreme slopes where my V8 fails. 

Stop stressing out.

It rides just fine off road.

[chrisjunlee]

2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Talk about nonsense...  Come back when you have faceplanted at 40+ miles per hour and tell us how much you love the wheel that allow you to defeat the safety so you can put yourself and everyone else around you at risk.  I still think it is insane that GW allows you to remove the safety and rely solely on hearing some arbitrary beep that they know can't be heard at 35mph+.

If you are serious about the $800 then you would have put your wheel up for $1900.  I will gladly buy the wheel from you for $800.

I don't even mind the gyro fell anymore.  

The strawman fallacy is strong in this one.

I don't feel like unpacking the first part, since that's a holy war that just won't die. But I'll address the second part.

You and others, have misunderstood what I meant by $800. Understandably so, since this is the internet.

To me personally, this wheel isn't worth more than $800. For my needs, the MCM5 ($900 brand new), is superior to it in every aspect minus range.

That has nothing to do with me selling it nearer to what I paid for to recover my costs. Make sense?

[Nils]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Talk about nonsense...  Come back when you have faceplanted at 40+ miles per hour and tell us how much you love the wheel that allow you to defeat the safety so you can put yourself and everyone else around you at risk.  I still think it is insane that GW allows you to remove the safety and rely solely on hearing some arbitrary beep that they know can't be heard at 35mph+.

In light of the latest forum tensions following the 16X release, could we just not all try to avoid the cheap shots? Yes, there's a good point here about allowing tilt-back to be disabled and the Gotway beeps not being audible at high speeds. Bad for Gotway. Is using a KS wheel the panacea? It didn't help me with the KS16 at ~18  mph when I ate the tarmac without any prior warnings. Bad for King Song. I feel so much safer now on my Nikola than I ever did on the KS16. Is it due to the manufacturer? No, it's due to the way higher margins of the more modern wheel with higher capacity. I remain wary of the factors influencing this, such as the battery voltage, environment (e.g. inclines) and riding (e.g. accelerating quickly). Would I feel safer with a more modern KS wheel than with the KS16? Yes, but also due to the higher margins, and to the same extent as with Gotway. Do I feel safer on a Gotway wheel than on a KS wheel? No.

To me, this is just the physical reality of riding a one wheeled vehicle. You think that riding a wheel from one manufacturer will absolve you of the laws of physics? No. If anyone is going 40+ mph on any wheel they need to take responsibility for their own actions, .No one can protect you properly from the possible consequences resulting from that. But anyone of that inclination will also be likely to have issues with any KS wheels.

[Rywokast]

7 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Why wouldn’t people unplug it when it turns green? I know “Mr. I hate my 16 X” up above said the same thing but I don’t understand.  I unplug all my PEV’s when the charger turns green.   Besides unless you’re standing right there when it does turn green how would you know when it did?  What exactly are the consequences of unplugging it after it turns green? Lol

well you dont know when it did but im assuming most people dont have big houses with garages where they keep their PEVs most people probably have them in their living room or hallway or something.. but also if youre using a fast charger the obnoxiously loud fan will turn off and that you notice right away.. but anyways there is no consequences of unplugging it after it turns green at all.. but every so often you should allow it to trickle charge a long time so the bms can balance the cells, if one gets too far out of balance from the rest it can be a serious problem for you like the guy who had to take his battery pack apart and charge up the one cell that was out of whack before it would let him ride, something could also potentially happen while riding,, i know the chances are very low of something happening and most of us dont keep these things long enough to worry but still probably every 20-30 charges i leave mine plugged in for like 12 hours after it turns green, it may sound crazy but as im not able to view the voltage of individual cells just overall i want to be sure.. there was just a thread a little while back about someone whos ks wheel wouldnt charge up past like 66.4 volts which is taken as overall so it could be that one cell was out of wack that could easily cause problems for him.. like a low voltage cutoff if that cell went below 3.15 or whatever is the cutoff on that particular wheel

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

The strawman fallacy is strong in this one.

I don't feel like unpacking the first part, since that's a holy war that just won't die. But I'll address the second part.

You and others, have misunderstood what I meant by $800. Understandably so, since this is the internet.

To me personally, this wheel isn't worth more than $800. For my needs, the MCM5 ($900 brand new), is superior to it in every aspect minus range.

That has nothing to do with me selling it nearer to what I paid for to recover my costs. Make sense?

why are you ordering the Nikola, it has the same limits vs the MCM5.  slow to accelerate.

[chrisjunlee]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one wanting a wheel with reasonably big diameter yet insane starting and low-speed torque. But that's just unrealistic to expect at this stage of EUC development. You'd need stronger hardware for that, and the battery usage would increase brutally - you're fighting physics after all.

Yet, the real limitation is not the 16X (or any other wheel) but the ergonomy of how easily you can tilt it. Grab the 16X with your legs and see what it can do. Just be careful so you don't blow a fuse and faceplant.

Yes! You understand me 😍.

I want something tuned for low-effort torque (mten3/MCM5) + wide tire (mten3) + a suspension-like cushy ride (MCM5). That would come at the cost of top speed, which I don't really care about.

I heard the Nikola 100V is a beefed up MCM5 - that sold me hard. 

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

I did the same.

I set it to 45kmh before my first ride.

I just confirmed, KS remove the 201km lock.  Woah!  Can set to any speed without first riding 201km.  I guess us old folks are bound by the previous experience and don't even try setting it above 40km.  LMFAO!

[chrisjunlee]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

why are you ordering the Nikola, it has the same limits vs the MCM5.  slow to accelerate.

Cause someone I respect very much mentioned it's the MCM5 on steroids - but you need to master it in soft mode. That is so tantalizing to me, I'm willing to give it a 200 mile chance.

Worst case, I sell it for $800, lose $1900 on an experiment, and some random 1 post newbie from Montreal snags up a killer deal .

[chrisjunlee]

3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I just confirmed, KS remove the 201km lock.  Woah!  Can set to any speed without first riding 201km.  I guess us old folks are bound by the previous experience and don't even try setting it above 40km.  LMFAO!

OMG 🤣. Well, you're about to love the wheel even more.

[eddiemoy]

6 minutes ago, Nils said:

In light of the latest forum tensions following the 16X release, could we just not all try to avoid the cheap shots? Yes, there's a good point here about allowing tilt-back to be disabled and the Gotway beeps not being audible at high speeds. Bad for Gotway. Is using a KS wheel the panacea? It didn't help me with the KS16 at ~18  mph when I ate the tarmac without any prior warnings. Bad for King Song. I feel so much safer now on my Nikola than I ever did on the KS16. Is it due to the manufacturer? No, it's due to the way higher margins of the more modern wheel with higher capacity. I remain wary of the factors influencing this, such as the battery voltage, environment (e.g. inclines) and riding (e.g. accelerating quickly). Would I feel safer with a more modern KS wheel than with the KS16? Yes, but also due to the higher margins, and to the same extent as with Gotway. Do I feel safer on a Gotway wheel than on a KS wheel? No.

To me, this is just the physical reality of riding a one wheeled vehicle. You think that riding a wheel from one manufacturer will absolve you of the laws of physics? No. If anyone is going 40+ mph on any wheel they need to take responsibility for their own actions, .No one can protect you properly from the possible consequences resulting from that. But anyone of that inclination will also be likely to have issues with any KS wheels.

Agreed.  Shouldn't have gone there.

There are good safety margins for the newer wheels.  They are built better, but still, GW makes these silly mistake about the film between the heat sink and the MOSFETS.  I hope you have verified and checked your Nikola so it doesn't spontaneously blow a mosfet on you.

 

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Cause someone I respect very much mentioned it's the MCM5 on steroids - but you need to master it in soft mode. That is so tantalizing to me, I'm willing to give it a 200 mile chance.

Worst case, I sell it for $800, lose $1900 on an experiment, and some random 1 post newbie from Montreal snags up a killer deal .

curious why the 100V though, if anything it should have the same torque/acceleration given its an identical motor and everything else only thing they changed was the board.. all of marty raves about it about how responsive and fantastic of a riding wheel it was were on his 84V and i dont recall him saying the 100 feels any different, anybody who gets it gets it for the higher top end speed... just seems like a lot of extra money if you dont plan to use that higher speed

Edited August 5, 2019 by Rywokast

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

13 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I just confirmed, KS remove the 201km lock.  Woah!  Can set to any speed without first riding 201km.  I guess us old folks are bound by the previous experience and don't even try setting it above 40km.  LMFAO

--------------

That's what I thought the whole time. All KS user with an account (which already rode 200km with any wheel) can pass the speed restriction without driving 200km again. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by buell47

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

OMG 🤣. Well, you're about to love the wheel even more.

still has the oscillation above 45km/h.  so not loving that part.  

 

8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Cause someone I respect very much mentioned it's the MCM5 on steroids - but you need to master it in soft mode. That is so tantalizing to me, I'm willing to give it a 200 mile chance.

Worst case, I sell it for $800, lose $1900 on an experiment, and some random 1 post newbie from Montreal snags up a killer deal .

I think you will be disappointed if you think it is different than the 16X and more like the MCM5.  If you are looking for more acceleration from the bigger wheels you need to provide more than just foot pressure.  That is kind of the reason EUC guy has these pads for extra leverage.  You grip the side pads and lean forward.  Whether you will blow something while doing so remains to be seen. 

Apologies for coming off a little cross. 

 

[Nils]

3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Agreed.  Shouldn't have gone there.

There are good safety margins for the newer wheels.  They are built better, but still, GW makes these silly mistake about the film between the heat sink and the MOSFETS.  I hope you have verified and checked your Nikola so it doesn't spontaneously blow a mosfet on you.

Thanks, and I agree that the issue of adhesive between MOSFETs and heat sink for the first gen Nikolas is down right embarrassing and inexcusable. I'd expect more from KS in this regard. My own board is verified and clean, but at the expense of some work on my part of course.

[chrisjunlee]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

I think you will be disappointed if you think it is different than the 16X and more like the MCM5.  If you are looking for more acceleration from the bigger wheels you need to provide more than just foot pressure.  That is kind of the reason EUC guy has these pads for extra leverage.  You grip the side pads and lean forward.  Whether you will blow something while doing so remains to be seen. 

Apologies for coming off a little cross. 

 

haha, it's all good. If you don't get passionate about something, it's not worth your time. I 100% prefer people to get riled up then calm down, then having a pleasant tea party 🍵

Also, I'm fully aware I'm a newb but completely owning my opinion in the moment, fully expecting to cringe at myself in the near future :).

@Marty Backegets it, he just steps back and laughs while I come around the hard way to his wisdom.

 

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, Nils said:

Thanks, and I agree that the issue of adhesive between MOSFETs and heat sink for the first gen Nikolas is down right embarrassing and inexcusable. I'd expect more from KS in this regard. My own board is verified and clean, but at the expense of some work on my part of course.

I think you mean GW.

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

I think you mean GW.

i dont think he does haha

[ir_fuel]

15 minutes ago, buell47 said:

That's what I thought the whole time. All KS user with an account (which already rode 200km with any wheel) can pass the speed restriction without driving 200km again. 

Nope.

This is my first KS wheel. It immediately unlocked.

[chrisjunlee]

6 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

still has the oscillation above 45km/h.  so not loving that part. 

What's your foot positioning, body weight and PSI?

I don't think it's the wheel, and would love to see something common we're doing.

Mine is slightly staggered, rear foot maybe 10 degrees pointing out (I'm slowly working on getting them parallel). Feet are both close to the wheel (vs wide and not touching).

Body weight: 140lbs, 20 PSI.

I did most of my miles on 30 PSI, and saw an improvement in wobbles lowering to 20PSI. 

Tempted to try even lower, but afraid of getting a pinch flat when I have no clue how to get this thing serviced. 

[chrisjunlee]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

Nope.

This is my first KS wheel. It immediately unlocked.

Same. It unlocked as soon as I set 1st and 2nd alarm to 0mph. First KS wheel

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

haha, it's all good. If you don't get passionate about something, it's not worth your time. I 100% prefer people to get riled up then calm down, then having a pleasant tea party 🍵

Also, I'm fully aware I'm a newb but completely owning my opinion in the moment, fully expecting to cringe at myself in the near future :).

@Marty Backegets it, he just steps back and laughs while I come around the hard way to his wisdom.

 

I recognize the reaction you had with the 16X.  I actually had the same reaction when I tried my first GW Msuper V3+.  I saw all the great reviews and thought it was the wheel for me.  When I got it I absolutely hated it.  That just shows you that we all have different needs an wants and it is all very subjective.  Though there are people who will have the same experience as you, there are those that don't.  Again I tried to give the GW V100 MSX a try, still I didn't like it.  

I also never really saw what all the rave was about with the MCM5.  I tried, it didn't think much of it.  Never really liked 14" wheels.  Doesn't suit my needs.  To each their own.

[Nils]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

I think you mean GW.

Ah, no,  I get the confusion, but I really do expect higher manufacturing and assembly quality from KS than from GW. I wish Gotway would up their standards here.

[Patton250]

31 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

well you dont know when it did but im assuming most people dont have big houses with garages where they keep their PEVs most people probably have them in their living room or hallway or something.. but also if youre using a fast charger the obnoxiously loud fan will turn off and that you notice right away.. but anyways there is no consequences of unplugging it after it turns green at all.. but every so often you should allow it to trickle charge a long time so the bms can balance the cells, if one gets too far out of balance from the rest it can be a serious problem for you like the guy who had to take his battery pack apart and charge up the one cell that was out of whack before it would let him ride, something could also potentially happen while riding,, i know the chances are very low of something happening and most of us dont keep these things long enough to worry but still probably every 20-30 charges i leave mine plugged in for like 12 hours after it turns green, it may sound crazy but as im not able to view the voltage of individual cells just overall i want to be sure.. there was just a thread a little while back about someone whos ks wheel wouldnt charge up past like 66.4 volts which is taken as overall so it could be that one cell was out of wack that could easily cause problems for him.. like a low voltage cutoff if that cell went below 3.15 or whatever is the cutoff on that particular wheel

Thanks man. You’re right about my wheels being in the garage so I never know when they stop charging. I usually charge them overnight so I guess they stay plugged in after being done for awhile anyway. 

Great explanation. Thanks again. 

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, Patton250 said:

Thanks man. You’re right about my wheels being in the garage so I never know when they stop charging. I usually charge them overnight so I guess they stay plugged in after being done for awhile anyway. 

Great explanation. Thanks again. 

aah then youre all good  in my house someone would see it and unplug it immediately.. they seem to think leaving things plugged in will lead to a noticeably higher electricity bill lol