KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[eddiemoy]

Update.

Such a strange feeling after not riding the 18L or 16 for few days.  My brain has been reprogrammed to ride gyro wheels.  When jumping on the 18L, it felt like I was about to fall side ways and each movement was exaggerated.  Kind of the feeling of riding on knife blade as the wheel.  So weird.  Need some adjustment moving from gyro wheel to non gyro wheel and vice versa.  This is the exact reason I don't want a wheel that rides differently.  

At this point, I'm trying to reprogram myself to ride the old wheels.  Then I'll jump back on the 16X with the CST tire.  Initial impression is that it still has gryo, but less since I had an issue adjusting to the 18L.  Sucks!  At this point I have to look at getting the original CYT tire on the preproduction.  I didn't have any adjustment issue with that wheel.

 

 

[Patton250]

25 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Update.

Such a strange feeling after not riding the 18L or 16 for few days.  My brain has been reprogrammed to ride gyro wheels.  When jumping on the 18L, it felt like I was about to fall side ways and each movement was exaggerated.  Kind of the feeling of riding on knife blade as the wheel.  So weird.  Need some adjustment moving from gyro wheel to non gyro wheel and vice versa.  This is the exact reason I don't want a wheel that rides differently.  

At this point, I'm trying to reprogram myself to ride the old wheels.  Then I'll jump back on the 16X with the CST tire.  Initial impression is that it still has gryo, but less since I had an issue adjusting to the 18L.  Sucks!  At this point I have to look at getting the original CYT tire on the preproduction.  I didn't have any adjustment issue with that wheel.

 

 

I know what you mean. It’s definitely different from the 18XL and 16X but it’s really an intense change when switching from the 18XL to the Z10. However it literally only takes me 100’ or so to adjust. 

[Gustesta]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Update.

Such a strange feeling after not riding the 18L or 16 for few days.  My brain has been reprogrammed to ride gyro wheels.  When jumping on the 18L, it felt like I was about to fall side ways and each movement was exaggerated.  Kind of the feeling of riding on knife blade as the wheel.  So weird.  Need some adjustment moving from gyro wheel to non gyro wheel and vice versa.  This is the exact reason I don't want a wheel that rides differently.  

At this point, I'm trying to reprogram myself to ride the old wheels.  Then I'll jump back on the 16X with the CST tire.  Initial impression is that it still has gryo, but less since I had an issue adjusting to the 18L.  Sucks!  At this point I have to look at getting the original CYT tire on the preproduction.  I didn't have any adjustment issue with that wheel.

 

 

Please Eddie, is 16x's factory tire really bad?  Does it ride like the Z10 (I didn't like the Z10)?  If it does, I'll regret my purchase that I haven't received yet

Also, does it ride like the V10F?  Is it easy to carve etc.?

Thank you!

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Gustesta said:

Please Eddie, is 16x's factory tire really bad?  Does it ride like the Z10 (I didn't like the Z10)?  If it does, I'll regret my purchase that I haven't received yet

For me it rides like a more nimble and certainly more comfortable Z10.

If that's good or bad, that's up to you

I also had what @eddiemoy said when jumping from my Z10 on my MCM5. I don't have this when swapping between the Z10 and the KS16X, so I could state that they have similar handling.

[ir_fuel]

20 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Not sure why you're set on invalidating anything and everything I say.

You really think I read nicknames before choosing how to react? I didn't even know it was you that wrote this until you pointed it out.

I still stand by my point that there are so many factors influencing the current tire pressure on these wheels that it seems extremely implausible to feel a 1PSI difference, as you could have that difference (and more) just during a ride, or from one day to another. 

It's nothing personal, but I've seen my share of people that claim to feel different things, until they don't. The standard one being (yes here we go again) a driver complaining about a car's behaviour. The mechanic turning the suspension damping 3 clicks harder, and then 3 clicks softer, telling the driver something was changed, and all of the sudden the car "feels a lot better" while strictly nothing has changed. 

[ir_fuel]

@Mishkin I have a KS16X since last week. Have 120km on it, most of them off road. I am VERY HAPPY with the wheel. I don't have a 15 wheel stable nor do I have 10.000km experience riding them (1500km would be more correct I think) but it does all what it's supposed to do.

If I really want to nitpick: disabling the wheel via the trolley handle lift can sometimes be annoying, especially off road. You stop on a steep decline because you can't (or don't dare) ride down. You grab the wheel and it moves a bit forward, and you pull it towards you because of gravity on that hill. At that point the wheel disengages as it detects the handle pull (as if you were to lift it), making getting it closer to you a whole lot harder since it will tilt towards you and no longer roll using its motor.

But that's really all I can think of. It takes some getting used to but so do all wheels. I'm running firmware 1.0.2. 

[BleepBloopBlop]

Greetings from 460 miles. Had an interesting failure today of the trolley handle after doing a fast ride off-road through Forest Park here in Portland. The fastener seems to have jiggled loose. No big deal as it was captured by the handle being down so I just need to reassemble it with some locktite. I've been playing around with tire pressure. The wheel came at 30psi and that's what I've ridden for most of the miles. I put it at 35psi and it was definitely a lot more squirrely. I bled some air out this afternoon before going for a long ride and now the tire is at a fairly low pressure. I really love the lower pressure as I can carve really hard but the wheel is super stable. I was worried I'd taken too much air out but I didn't get a pinch flat hauling ass over 8 miles of gravel. Hit a new peak of 2138 watts on the output. I hadn't been watching it up until now so I'll see if I can push the wheel harder.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by BleepBloopBlop

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Gustesta said:

Please Eddie, is 16x's factory tire really bad?  Does it ride like the Z10 (I didn't like the Z10)?  If it does, I'll regret my purchase that I haven't received yet

Also, does it ride like the V10F?  Is it easy to carve etc.?

Thank you!

It does ride like the z10, took me about 50 miles for my brain to be rewired to ride it well.  Only problem is if you have other wheels, it takes time to switch between wheel.  You can buy the CYT tire that came with the preproduction.  I know that had zero gyro effect.  It takes bout an hour to swap the tire.  I cannot at this point recommend the CST tire as it doesn’t completely remove the gyro effect.  

The stock tire is easy to carve when you get the hang of it.  You can make it easy to carve by increasing they tire pressure.  I ride with very low tire pressure, 18psi, so it has some resistance.  

Hope this helps.  

[ir_fuel]

A point of warning for all users here  

I had this happen today:

 

 

The wobbles 

It's very apparent in the second part of the video. The road is super smooth there btw. It started happening from about 15km/h but it became very apparent and even dangerous at 30+km/h.  In the second part look at the headlight and the tire (53 seconds onwards), you'll see them move constantly wrt each other, back and forward.

Now before everyone here starts panicking and spamming 20 pages in this thread, let me explain what happened:

I got an old Android phone out of the closet and installed the latest Wheellog APK. Since I am not familiar with the app I connected it to the wheel and started looking around in the menus. It seems that by opening one of the menus some commands where sent to the wheel, because as you can see my 2 led strips are off.

After the above behaviour I took the official KingSong app to check the state of the lights, and what do I see? The ride mode was changed from "experient" to the middle setting (don't remember the name)! 

I changed the ride mode back to the hardest setting (and enabled the lights and leds again), and, no more wobbling! Hit 40+km/h on multiple occasions afterwards and the wheel felt rock solid.

Wheellog user beware  

Edited August 8, 2019 by ir_fuel

[eddiemoy]

14 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

A point of warning for all users here  

I had this happen today:

 

 

The wobbles 

It's very apparent in the second part of the video. The road is super smooth there btw. It started happening from about 15km/h but it became very apparent and even dangerous at 30+km/h.

Now before everyone here starts panicking and spamming 20 pages in this thread, let me explain what happened:

I got an old Android phone out of the closet and installed the latest Wheellog APK. Since I am not familiar with the app I connected it to the wheel and started looking around in the menus. It seems that by opening one of the menus some commands where sent to the wheel, because as you can see my 2 led strips are off.

After the above behaviour I took the official KingSong app to check the state of the lights, and what do I see? The ride mode was changed from "experient" to the middle setting (don't remember the name)! 

I changed the ride mode back to the hardest setting (and enabled the lights and leds again), and, no more wobbling! Hit 40+km/h on multiple occasions afterwards and the wheel felt rock solid.

Wheellog user beware  

By wobbles, do you mean left and right movement?  This is user caused. Or do you mean forward and backwards?  Firmware caused. 

[ir_fuel]

Just now, eddiemoy said:

By wobbles, do you mean left and right movement?  This is user caused. Or do you mean forward and backwards?  Firmware caused. 

forward and backward. You can see it very clearly in the video. In the first part you see my legs and knees constantly shaking back and front (23 seconds in the video, that is NOT the road)  because the wheel just goes forward backward all the time. In the second part look at the headlight and the tire (53 seconds onwards), you'll see them move constantly wrt each other.

I'm not talking about the braking.

It was weird because I never had it before. But I never rode another ride mode before either. That explained why all of the sudden it happened.

[Gustesta]

27 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

It does ride like the z10, took me about 50 miles for my brain to be rewired to ride it well.  Only problem is if you have other wheels, it takes time to switch between wheel.  You can buy the CYT tire that came with the preproduction.  I know that had zero gyro effect.  It takes bout an hour to swap the tire.  I cannot at this point recommend the CST tire as it doesn’t completely remove the gyro effect.  

The stock tire is easy to carve when you get the hang of it.  You can make it easy to carve by increasing they tire pressure.  I ride with very low tire pressure, 18psi, so it has some resistance.  

Hope this helps.  

Thanks!

[fryman]

16 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

forward and backward. You can see it very clearly in the video. In the first part you see my legs and knees constantly shaking back and front (23 seconds in the video, that is NOT the road)  because the wheel just goes forward backward all the time. In the second part look at the headlight and the tire (53 seconds onwards), you'll see them move constantly wrt each other.

I'm not talking about the braking.

It was weird because I never had it before. But I never rode another ride mode before either. That explained why all of the sudden it happened.

Try switching it back and see if it happens again.

[ir_fuel]

Just now, fryman said:

Try switching it back and see if it happens again.

That'll be for tomorrow. It's midnight here  

[eddiemoy]

25 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

forward and backward. You can see it very clearly in the video. In the first part you see my legs and knees constantly shaking back and front (23 seconds in the video, that is NOT the road)  because the wheel just goes forward backward all the time. In the second part look at the headlight and the tire (53 seconds onwards), you'll see them move constantly wrt each other.

I'm not talking about the braking.

It was weird because I never had it before. But I never rode another ride mode before either. That explained why all of the sudden it happened.

 

Yes, saw you shaking.  Wasn’t sure since it isn’t a side view.  Not sure if you’ve seen my videos of the pre-production.  It is very obvious from the side.

That is kind of the same oscillation that I got in the preproduction model going 45km/h.  

wobbles are side to side.  

[Kens]

Eddie-Osci©®™ 

"Been shaking front and back since 2019" 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Gustesta said:

Please Eddie, is 16x's factory tire really bad?  Does it ride like the Z10 (I didn't like the Z10)?  If it does, I'll regret my purchase that I haven't received yet

Also, does it ride like the V10F?  Is it easy to carve etc.?

Thank you!

Are you truly serious? I mean truly? Have you been reading this thread? All respect but don’t you think you are over reacting? Perhaps just a tad bit? 

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

A point of warning for all users here  

I had this happen today:

 

 

The wobbles 

It's very apparent in the second part of the video. The road is super smooth there btw. It started happening from about 15km/h but it became very apparent and even dangerous at 30+km/h.  In the second part look at the headlight and the tire (53 seconds onwards), you'll see them move constantly wrt each other, back and forward.

Now before everyone here starts panicking and spamming 20 pages in this thread, let me explain what happened:

I got an old Android phone out of the closet and installed the latest Wheellog APK. Since I am not familiar with the app I connected it to the wheel and started looking around in the menus. It seems that by opening one of the menus some commands where sent to the wheel, because as you can see my 2 led strips are off.

After the above behaviour I took the official KingSong app to check the state of the lights, and what do I see? The ride mode was changed from "experient" to the middle setting (don't remember the name)! 

I changed the ride mode back to the hardest setting (and enabled the lights and leds again), and, no more wobbling! Hit 40+km/h on multiple occasions afterwards and the wheel felt rock solid.

Wheellog user beware  

I hit this and much worse on this wheel. The worst being a super low speed oscillation that threw me off.

At this point, I've just accepted. The high speed wobble doesn't magnify, just ignore it.

Same thing with the motor vibration, sometimes it gets really strong and tickles my feet. But for the most part, I've learned to ignore it.

Soft mode does seem to make it worse. But I'm riding soft mode strictly to get used to it (I'm usually a firm or medium mode rider).

I'm still on v1.01 btw.

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

The wheel came at 30psi and that's what I've ridden for most of the miles. I put it at 35psi and it was definitely a lot more squirrely. I bled some air out this afternoon before going for a long ride and now the tire is at a fairly low pressure. I really love the lower pressure as I can carve really hard but the wheel is super stable. I was worried I'd taken too much air out but I didn't get a pinch flat hauling ass over 8 miles of gravel. Hit a new peak of 2138 watts on the output. 

Agree carving feels amazing on low pressure. I'm not seeing self steering either, this stock tire's recommended pressures are too high IMHO.

How are you checking peak power?

[BleepBloopBlop]

 

 

Part of my lunchtime jaunt on hauling ass on gravel. I love this wheel!

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

I hit this and much worse on this wheel. The worst being a super low speed oscillation that threw me off.

At this point, I've just accepted. The high speed wobble doesn't magnify, just ignore it.

Same thing with the motor vibration, sometimes it gets really strong and tickles my feet. But for the most part, I've learned to ignore it.

Soft mode does seem to make it worse. But I'm riding soft mode strictly to get used to it (I'm usually a firm or medium mode rider).

I'm still on v1.01 btw.

The riding mode probably explains it for you too. Set it to the hardest and it goes away. What did worry me was that the wobble does get harder the faster I go. Once you know it's there you already notice it at 10mph, and the faster you go the harder it goes front-to-back. I didn't want to push it to see what would happen at 25mph   

But as I said, riding mode hardest, problem solved. I don't use any other mode. For me it works best on off-road because you have to lean in less to get going.

The micro-vibrations from the motor, I also had them, but I only have them when riding slowly for a long time (10mph, is cruising speed when riding with my daughter on her V5F). Nothing that bothers me and when I am riding faster they go away. Never noticed them when I am riding by myself.

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

 

 

Part of my lunchtime jaunt on hauling ass on gravel. I love this wheel!

I was so stressed out the first time I rode on that kind of surface with it. All for nothing, I noticed after a while  Just give it some stick  

[BleepBloopBlop]

@chrisjunlee  Peak power is in the app right above voltage! 

 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Gustesta said:

Please Eddie, is 16x's factory tire really bad?  Does it ride like the Z10 (I didn't like the Z10)?  If it does, I'll regret my purchase that I haven't received yet

Also, does it ride like the V10F?  Is it easy to carve etc.?

Thank you!

Let me put it this way. Sometimes we do things not because they are easy but because they are hard... I don’t go to the moon, but learned to ride an EUC. 

You learn, adapt or overcome. It is part of the journey of a new wheel and part of the essence of the joy, when you final succeed. And all of a sudden you have a very new favourite wheel. 

If you follow the (old) reviews this is a red line in most of them of any new generation of wheel. 

[ir_fuel]

If we weren't open to a challenge, we would all have bought an electric scooter.