KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[meepmeepmayer]

Soft mode doesn't mean you need to lean more to accelerate. If the wheel is leaning forward, it has to accelerate or it would fall over. So different leans for the same acceleration doesn't work. Your body position necessarily controls the acceleration, regardless if riding mode.

Soft mode delays the wheel's reaction, which allows you to throw yourself more into the lean and get easier acceleration, for the cost of less fine control for quick movements.

Edited August 9, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[ir_fuel]

Need to try it then, but for off roading I don't really want that delay I think.

I always set my wheels to the hardest setting.

[Unventor]

12 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Need to try it then, but for off roading I don't really want that delay I think.

I always set my wheels to the hardest setting.

So did I on my KS18L until fw update 1.12 then I rride at middel setting. Makes the wheel a little more American 50ish car floating for easy ride comfort. 

However as I understand it KS recommend to use hard/expert mode only until new fw is rolled out.

Or did I miss a news flash? 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

On 8/7/2019 at 4:57 PM, Marty Backe said:

 

@Jean Dublin stated:

implying that that 16X could get more range that the 100-volt 1845wh Nikola.

Hi Marty, 

Thanks for the Nikola 100v 1845wh range test video

So I see you got 64.15mi/103km. 

I see that people are getting 50-60mi on the KS16X 84v 1554wh (riding faster, different weights and tire pressures, details on their posts, linked on the first message of this topic).

So I would have expected more from the 100v 1845wh battery. 

I think there may be a difference in efficiency (probably also related to Gotway deliverying extra power, not sure). 

I'm sure this math is wrong, but I'll try anyways. 

84*1554=130536

100*1845=184500

So if 130536 gets 60 miles, in same conditions 184500 should get 184500*60/130536= 84 miles? 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Jean Dublin

[chrisjunlee]

35 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

And what exactly is the advantage of that? It means you hang a lot more forward for the same amount of acceleration input. I think for off roading it would be very unsuitable, considering how much I already need to lean on very steep hills. I would need to lean even further forward to overcome the "slack".

It's not a distance offset - it introduces a lag which allows harder acceleration. 

I agree it's best for paved surfaces. Off-roading kind of requires instant response

[meepmeepmayer]

@Jean Dublin That math doesn't work The voltage is already part of the Wh number. Also: Wh numbers can be misleading. Cell count and type are hard facts. In doubt, compare these.

16X with 1600Wh: 120 cells with 3500mAh each (with the usual math that's 120 * 3.7V * 3.5Ah = 1554Wh) [120 is 6*20 and 20*3.7V=84V, here's the voltage, with a Ah capacity of 6*3.5=21Ah]

Nikola 100V 1845Wh: 144 cells with 3450mAh each (1838.2Wh) [144 is 6*24, 24*3.7V=100.8V with 6*3.45=20.7Ah]

That still doesn't take into account that the 16X depletes the batteries further than the Nikola, which gives it a higher range compared to 1600Wh Gotways. And possible efficiency differences, whether they exist or not.

I still don't believe the 16X will be able to beat the 100V 1845Wh Nikola range. The Nikola has an 18% battery size advantage (144*3.45/120*3.5 = 1.1829), neither the battery depletion thing nor possible efficiency advantages will amount to 18%. Your stated range results seem to confirm that. But it comes close.

Edited August 9, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Unventor]

I really don't think it matters that much once you are past 50mil+. At least not to me longest ride in one day was 40ish km for me. My knees were acting up big time. Maybe with the seat option I can do more. But either way I will need to rest legs/mind and get food/ as the output stuff too.

I guess on a mountain trail the charger might not be an option, but most cases you go up... regain power on the way down. 

@Marty Backe is happy with the Nikola, but that is not to say othets can't be happy with their KS16X once the wheel has been ironed out with the inc fw and app update. Also a BT update over USB stick is rolling out now so...

I am however still waiting on the train from China to arrive at my dealer.

Hopefully we don't get too much rain in the autumn...

Edited August 9, 2019 by Unventor

[ir_fuel]

17 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I really don't think it matters that much once you are past 50mil+. At least not to me longest ride in one day was 40ish km for me.

There are some hardcore riders here  

But I tend to agree for my usage. My longest ride was 52km, and that was more to test how far I could go on my Rockwheel GT16. Second one was a bit over 40km with the Z10. But to be on the safe side this means that I want a wheel that should be able to go 80km, as I want enough battery left not to get into power problems. The Z10 started giving overspeed warnings at and throttling to 40 km/h at 50% battery.

The KS16X is the biggest wheel I have had so far wrt battery capacity. Both the Rockwheel and the Z10 are around 1000Wh and I never ran out of battery on them. I suppose the 1554Wh on the KS16X will be largely sufficient for me  

And I agree with the pain. I did 1.5h of mountain bike trail riding a couple of days ago and my left knee was getting super sore. No way I could do that for 8 consecutive hours. I only covered 16km during that 1.5h btw.

Where I live there is not too much fun to be had on paved roads, so I don't think I'll often do 40+km rides.

Sometimes I think I would want to get a Monster, just for the experience. But I would probably nearly never use it as I can not trolley it in the shop and it's such a behemoth.

[HarpMudd]

I never experienced the random tiltback issue, but I just applied the bluetooth module update. Good thing about it is that I don't hear the horrible speaker noise when turning on/off my wheel anymore. Also it seems like better coordination/syncing of lights with the music now.

[Jon Stern]

4 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

I never experienced the random tiltback issue, but I just applied the bluetooth module update. Good thing about it is that I don't hear the horrible speaker noise when turning on/off my wheel anymore. Also it seems like better coordination/syncing of lights with the music now.

I've had a lot of random tilt (like my ride back from work where the tilt forward while going down hill nearly threw me off). I'm formating a drive as FAT32 now (which is taking a looong time). I'll check the wheel out once I get it installed, and once my wife arrives back home to look after the babies.

[magicrobots]

I just grabbed an old USB drive I had lying around, no idea what the Formatting of it was. It seemed to work as the process went as described in the email so .. . yay?

[chrisjunlee]

50 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

I never experienced the random tiltback issue, but I just applied the bluetooth module update. Good thing about it is that I don't hear the horrible speaker noise when turning on/off my wheel anymore. Also it seems like better coordination/syncing of lights with the music now.

What was the speaker noise issue?

[Jon Stern]

9 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

What was the speaker noise issue?

@HarpMudd's bad taste in music?

[Patton250]

50 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

What was the speaker noise issue?

 Every time you turn the 16 X off the speaker pops. Mine does. 

[Jon Stern]

 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

10 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Every time you turn the 16 X off the speaker pops. Mine does. 

All kingsong wheels with speakers do it seems, so that's not an issue. 

[eddiemoy]

Update:

I've had some miles on the new CST tire.  So far I'm not liking the CST tire.  I think the stock tire is better even though it had the gyro feeling.  After I got used to the gyro feel, it felt more stable at higher speeds.  Also with the 16X, I'm so comfortable that I'm hitting the speed limit much more often than on the 18's I have.  Now I'm considering getting the Nikola Plus so that I can ride at higher speeds.  It is constantly in the back of my head that it is more risky.  But these wheels feel so stable and absorb the bumps so much better as well.  I was mainly a 25mph guy, but now I'm pushing against the 31mph limit and the only wheel that allows for higher speed is Gotway.  

This would be my 3rd GW wheel if I get it.

Our needs are constantly evolving.

edit:

The CST has less to no gyro, so the adjustment jumping off the 16X to my other wheels is not bad.  The bad thing about the stock tire is that with the gyro, there is a longish adjustment when jumping from wheel to no gyro wheel.  Again, if this is the only wheel I have, I wouldn't mind keeping the stock tire because I actually like it more than the CST tire.

Now here is the crux since the Nikola comes with the CST tire.  Will have to see....

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by eddiemoy

[Gustesta]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Update:

I've had some miles on the new CST tire.  So far I'm not liking the CST tire.  I think the stock tire is better even though it had the gyro feeling.  After I got used to the gyro feel, it felt more stable at higher speeds.  Also with the 16X, I'm so comfortable that I'm hitting the speed limit much more often than on the 18's I have.  Now I'm considering getting the Nikola Plus so that I can ride at higher speeds.  It is constantly in the back of my head that it is more risky.  But these wheels feel so stable and absorb the bumps so much better as well.  I was mainly a 25mph guy, but now I'm pushing against the 31mph limit and the only wheel that allows for higher speed is Gotway.  

This would be my 3rd GW wheel if I get it.

Our needs are constantly evolving.

Great!  Have you ridden the Nikola?  How does it compare to the 16x?  Thanks Eddie.

[eddiemoy]

12 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Great!  Have you ridden the Nikola?  How does it compare to the 16x?  Thanks Eddie.

The few times I rode the Nikola, I don't remember anything bad about it.  I do remember it had a little bit of gyro which I didn't like at the time.  I'm guessing it should feel very similar to the 16X now with the CST tire. 

One thing I miss is the kick to deploy pedals I have on the other KS wheels.  I don't mind the all black Nikola look.  I really didn't like the white stripes.  Don't really like the handle either.  Oh well, if you want faster speed than 31mph, there isn't any choice.  I know I didn't like the MSX.  

Edited August 10, 2019 by eddiemoy

[Daniel-Son]

I was going to wait for next week to do another range test but, my feet felt fine this morning. My plan was to ride under 20 mph for as long as I can possible go. The first hour, was great! I was having fun carving, at speed of around 15 mph, this wheel is really fun to ride. The second hour, still feeling good but my feet began to hurt. The third hour, my feet really starts to hurt and the temperature outside starts to heat up quickly. The fourth hour, my feet is in so much pain they start to go numb. I finally ended my trip at 4 and a half hours and I still had 20% battery! 

I will never do this again! (Not without a seat)

1) screenshot - 65 mile/48 gps miles 3hr 24min with 23% until throttling.

2) screenshot - 80.5 miles/59 gps miles 4hr 17min with 1% until throttling.

3) 4) 5) My final numbers - 82.8 miles/60.6 gps miles with 20% battery still left! Very impressive!

 

[chrisjunlee]

My 16X action scene 🔥

[Jon Stern]

@Daniel-Son have you considered stopping and taking a break (foot rest)?

While the battery cooling down will affect its charge, isn't the point to determine what the real-world range of the wheel is?

If for all practical purposes, real-world means a ride with breaks, then isn't that the test to perform?

[Daniel-Son]

7 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

@Daniel-Son have you considered stopping and taking a break (foot rest)?

While the battery cooling down will affect its charge, isn't the point to determine what the real-world range of the wheel is?

If for all practical purposes, real-world means a ride with breaks, then isn't that the test to perform?

I wanted to know how long I can go nonstop and how far can this wheel take me. In the battle of Man vs Wheel, the wheel kick my ass! I thought I would try to burn off the last 20% batt. No way in hell! I can barely walk now. I did it in the name of science! 

[Daniel-Son]

19 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

My 16X action scene 🔥

 I enjoyed that laugh that you made when you saw the gas scooter make me laugh myself. Nice riding!

[chrisjunlee]

21 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

@Daniel-Son have you considered stopping and taking a break (foot rest)?

While the battery cooling down will affect its charge, isn't the point to determine what the real-world range of the wheel is?

If for all practical purposes, real-world means a ride with breaks, then isn't that the test to perform?

We really don't need to be doing the full 70 mile range test.

As I've stated long ago, we just need to integrate Power over time ( ∫W(t)*dt ) which gives us total energy over that distance - thereby giving us motor efficiency. This would also allow for more control over variables due to the shorter distances it allows (rider weight, tire pressure, speed, start/stop, etc).

That is exactly the data I would be gathering if I was writing an industry whitepaper.

Unfortunately, I don't think people understand what I'm saying, so eyes glaze over and all this just goes over their head XD

Edited August 10, 2019 by chrisjunlee