KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I guess we caught Kingsong lying? They claimed to have evaluated the CST and determined it wasn't a best fit.

Not sure what happened there, but I think I would have been OK with the CX321 tire if this was the only wheel I had.  

[chrisjunlee]

20 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

It takes about a little over an hour and proper tools to take off these bigger thicker tires.  Ecodrift teardown pictures helped.

https://ecodrift.ru/2019/06/24/kingsong-ks-16x-disassembling/?fbclid=IwAR3HABqnm4HhJNQDKxrvC0Ljc8HHZ5wqe0aRd7OdpfaQxSuQ3BfiHAHTOyY

I was impatient and ripped the side pads while trying to reveal the screws.  I also stripped on of the deep screws by over tightening.  

You need long 15.5" tire irons.  Don't think you can change the tire using the crappy 4" plastic tire irons.  

The build isn't as good as I hoped.  The wiring isn't as neat as I hoped.  But a world better than Gotway.  Gotway just seems like some kid put it together.  

Side covers are held together with 10 screws each side.  

There are only two wires you need to disconnect.  Motor wire and hall sensor.  It is covered with some water proof goo.  The motor wire is held together with zip tie.  You have to remove the LED strip from both sides to slide the unit down.

I would’ve loved to watch the process.

Is the hour just for taking the tire off the rim? Or is it the whole process, including disassembly, inner tube and reassembly? Because that’s much less time than I would’ve expected.

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I would’ve loved to watch the process.

Is the hour just for taking the tire off the rim? Or is it the whole process, including disassembly, inner tube and reassembly? Because that’s much less time than I would’ve expected.

whole thing, with the right tools the removal of the tire from the wheel is easy.  if i had to do it again, would take much less time, probably less than 30 minutes.

[eddiemoy]

Just so everyone is aware, the tire (CX321) that comes with the production wheel isn't bad.  It is just different.  Once you get used to it, it is pretty good.  I almost didn't swap it out.  I still have the tire, if I don't like the CST tire, will probably swap it back or look for the preproduction CYT tire.  

[chrisjunlee]

38 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Just so everyone is aware, the tire (CX321) that comes with the production wheel isn't bad.  It is just different.  Once you get used to it, it is pretty good.  I almost didn't swap it out.  I still have the tire, if I don't like the CST tire, will probably swap it back or look for the preproduction CYT tire.  

It's fascinating the CST doesn't have a 'gyro effect'. Any clue what differences would result in that?

[Rywokast]

17 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

It's fascinating the CST doesn't have a 'gyro effect'. Any clue what differences would result in that?

the shape/width I would think.. pattern/material shouldn't noticeably affect that, if I had to wager a guess I would say the included tire is flatter.. but eddie would know for sure

Edited August 8, 2019 by Rywokast

[chrisjunlee]

2 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

the shape/width I would think.. pattern/material shouldn't noticeable affect that, if I had to wager a guess I would say the included tire is flatter

Interesting. I was thinking of what factors would increase rotational inertia, which would be mass and mass distribution. But I can't imagine that being drastically different enough to create a different tire feel.

Your idea of tire profile being different: that makes more sense! Although, I would imagine a flatter profile would be stabler at speed.

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

It's fascinating the CST doesn't have a 'gyro effect'. Any clue what differences would result in that?

The only difference I can see is the shape of the tire.  CX321 is more uniform, the rubber is mostly distributed at the top like a flat top, but rounded.  The CST is more like a triangle.  It came flattened.  There is a 1/2 no tread portion right in the middle.  Also seems like it is thinner, less mass.  I should have looked at them and compared them more carefully.  But it was like a pancake.  When I took off the CX321x it still very round and held its shape. I have a feeling the CST will have a flat more easier. I probably want to get a CYT tire also.  I really liked the pre production.  

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Interesting. I was thinking of what factors would increase rotational inertia, which would be mass and mass distribution. But I can't imagine that being drastically different enough to create a different tire feel.

Your idea of tire profile being different: that makes more sense! Although, I would imagine a flatter profile would be stabler at speed.

for sure.. but you only want so much stability haha.. too much and then you cant turn at speed xD need that good balance

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

The only difference I can see is the shape of the tire.  CX321 is more uniform, the rubber is mostly distributed at the top like a flat top, but rounded.  The CST is more like a triangle.  It came flattened.  There is a 1/2 no tread portion right in the middle.  Also seems like it is thinner, less mass.  I should have looked at them and compared them more carefully.  But it was like a pancake.  When I took off the CX321x it still very round and held its shape. I have a feeling the CST will have a flat more easier. I probably want to get a CYT tire also.  I really liked the pre production.  

This is the first comparison description I've seen. Any pics would be great

CX321: rounded flat top, so like a mushroom? 

As for keeping the round shape: I wonder if it's a radial vs bias tire construction thing. I remember one type has a structural sidewall, so it holds its shape without air, and can also run much lower pressures (tubeless tire type).

Any differences in the tire pressure?

With something unstructured as the CST, I would figure it needs a higher tire pressure.

[null]

13 hours ago, erk1024 said:

In KujiRolls video comparing the 18XL and the MSX, he said the 18XL got greater range because the thinner tire had less rolling resistance. If that's true then that's another reason why the 16X would have less range.

Also, the smaller outer diameter of the tyre will take more bumps (racing bike tyres are large and slim), as well as require more rotations / km (good for torque but I suppose once at cruising speed lower rpm is better)

[Tom D]

I take it the updated FW for the 16X has not been pushed out yet?  I thought KS said by this past Tuesday?

[Unventor]

6 minutes ago, Tom D said:

I take it the updated FW for the 16X has not been pushed out yet?  I thought KS said by this past Tuesday?

I thought it was due for the weekend but it seems it is this upcoming weekend I guess. 

[BleepBloopBlop]

Back to this oscillation issue... If I accelerate as hard as possible I can get the wheel to pulse a bit where the wheel tilts forward and back a bit as I'm getting up to top speed. Once I'm cruising at a set speed this all goes away (typically 48kph). I notice this mostly when riding at night as the headlight bobbles up and down as I'm taking off. Is this what people are referring to as oscillation? 

[Gustesta]

Sorry about this question, if it's out of context, but can you unlock the 16x speed with some app?

[Unventor]

3 minutes ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Is this what people are referring to as oscillation? 

That sounds right yes. 

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Sorry about this question, if it's out of context, but can you unlock the 16x speed with some app?

Yes the kingsong App version 3.1.3 for android (or similar for iOS) set speeds in this order

[Gustesta]

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Yes the kingsong App version 3.1.3 for android (or similar for iOS) set speeds in this order

Thank you!  But is the speed factory locked to 40 kmh?  Can I unlock it to 50 kmh just using the app?  I'm asking because I haven't received my wheel yet. 

[mrelwood]

 

18 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Go ride 20mph for a couple of minutes and feel your tire. It will be warm. What do you think happens with tire pressures on a warm wheel?

Exactly. My MSX goes from 2.5 bars at room temperature, up to 2.75 bars. At ”racing” temperature. There is a notable difference between 2.5 and 2.6 bars (both at room temp, 1.5 psi difference), so I don’t doubt the 1 psi difference to be noticeable.

You don’t have to use a calibrated meter to be able to compare 1 psi differences, as long as the meter is true to itself and doesn’t stick at some positions.

 

14 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

It's fascinating the CST doesn't have a 'gyro effect'. Any clue what differences would result in that?

The CST C-1488 has a solid center ridge, and a lot less rubber at the sides, perhaps about a 60% coverage. Therefore it indeed behaves more like a triangle. For me the 16x2.5” version behaved like a slightly narrower tire, which is probably a great feature on a 3” tire.

Once the tire has been inflated for a week or a month, it will then hold it’s shape even when removed from the wheel. They just squeeze them thin for transport.

 

13 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I would imagine a flatter profile would be stabler at speed.

It is, and I think the gyroscopic effect is a result of the increased stability.

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Gustesta said:

Thank you!  But is the speed factory locked to 40 kmh?  Can I unlock it to 50 kmh just using the app?  I'm asking because I haven't received my wheel yet. 

If it is KS16X it should not have this lock anymore. It has a factory top speed set, but you can change that freely now it seems. 

[Gustesta]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

If it is KS16X it should not have this lock anymore. It has a factory top speed set, but you can change that freely now it seems. 

Thank you for your time and answer.  Yes, it's the 16x.  I'm glad they changed that.  I had to use an app to unlock my KS18s in the past.

[Nils]

18 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

as we do on our racing cars

We do? Damn, I need to up my game. Note to self: First order of business tomorrow, get a race car!

Edited August 8, 2019 by Nils

[Nils]

16 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

The point being: if you don't like how the wheel feels, try different tire pressures, and dial it in. Start with 5 PSI increments, give it 10 miles, then dial it in. At least for me, that made all the difference in disliking to loving this wheel.

I said it before regarding my Nikola, but it's more sensitive than my previous wheels with regards to the tire pressure so it's definitely a good idea to tune in the tire pressure properly (assuming the 16X wheel behaves similarly).

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, Nils said:

We are? Damn, I need to up my game. Note to self: First order order of business tomorrow, get a race car!

DIY buy 4x KS16X and you are in the race car business feeling, tuning, adjusting calibrating... Moaning... Then at some point you will get the KS super tuned fw and you will be happy again for a while. Until you for your seat 😉

[Nils]

12 minutes ago, Unventor said:

DIY buy 4x KS16X and you are in the race car business feeling, tuning, adjusting calibrating... Moaning... Then at some point you will get the KS super tuned fw and you will be happy again for a while. Until you for your seat 😉

Right, the four wheel drive people talk about!