Popular Post US69 Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Kuji Rolls said: So to help clarify from my side, it is limited to HARD acceleration followed by immediate braking. Ive cruised at top speed followed by hard braking without any problems. So, braking isnt the issue, its the hard acceleration (much more preventable). Kingsong has been pushing out new firmware updates and made vast improvements to the motor control in the last month, so i believe that this will be a simple firmware update soon. A hard hill climb demanding the same power didnt result in this problem. Other than this motor control problem, the 16X has been a blast to ride. This hit's the Point! Just some clarification: KS is working on a Firmware fix to get this osciallation issue away as this Wheel behaviour is not acceptable! Nonetheless i would like to Point out another Thing: No other Driver uptodate was able to reproduce this extrem behavior...or better lets say: Nobody has run into such a Wheel Feedback! So my -personal- thoughts.....Without blaming Kuji ….but i really have to say that: Such overhefty lean in and acceleration, followed by crazy overlean braking, just for the Purpose of doing it...is and will be NEVER RECOMMEND! On NO brand Wheel! I can only appeal to a healthy common sense! This may have Worked out -until now- for Kuji….as he is perhaps about 65kg!? Please! Be Aware that for a more heavy european/american guy About 50-70% more power is drawn….and all EUC rely on the same type of battery, which is not able to provide infinite Energy! So i can only warn to take such a "overlean" driving style as an example for typical EUC driving…... Yes, you can drive your EUC agressive...but there are borders for that! my 2 Cents.... and as i allready see the outrage: please dont Forget sentence number 3!!! 9 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno356 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 @US69 I am far from an expert and only have the 18XL, but for whom, and why are you making excuses for Kingsong, do you have some personal interest? In my opinion their quality control as far as my wheel is concerned leaves a lot to be desired. Regardless of Kuji's weight or his aggressive riding, this should not happen. Regards - Bruno 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post US69 Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, bruno356 said: @US69 I am far from an expert and only have the 18XL, but for whom, and why are you making excuses for Kingsong, do you have some personal interest? In my opinion their quality control as far as my wheel is concerned leaves a lot to be desired. Regardless of Kuji's weight or his aggressive riding, this should not happen. Regards - Bruno I am not making any excuses, you should not only pick parts of the statement...i clearly sad above: Wheel behaviour is not acceptable! Nonetheless such really extreme leaning is just not recommend and should be no example...no matter which brand. >Reason saying that is mainly is because i have seen -a lot -faceplants of users doing so...again: On all Brands available. Having enough power for every lean would mean you Need About 10000Watt of (Motor/battery) Power. No Wheel is capable of that. I dont know what your Wheel experience is...but i can say, that having owned several Brands and a dozen EUC that Quality on KS is better than on several competitors. Which also doesnt mean it can't be improved! Sure it can... 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unventor Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, bruno356 said: @US69 I am far from an expert and only have the 18XL, but for whom, and why are you making excuses for Kingsong, do you have some personal interest? In my opinion their quality control as far as my wheel is concerned leaves a lot to be desired. Regardless of Kuji's weight or his aggressive riding, this should not happen. Regards - Bruno He actually did 2 things, neighter of those were making excuses... He is a Social Representative on the forum relaying info from KS to the forum and collecting info to KS from users. KS assigned him to help both KS and us the users. While any band makes stronger wheels, there is still a safe zone for how far you can push a wheel. The videio of Kuji pushing to the limits already had reactions. So KS need to get a message out that they are working on it. But this was also followed by data, KS is not able to push their wheels yet to set the behaviour one another wheel/rider. If you look at Kujis own comment you should see what he thinks about it all. So if you don't want an issue with a new wheel you should not buy a model that have not been out for sale for 6 months or so. It really is that simple. Goes even for KS. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucasD Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 14 hours ago, Kuji Rolls said: So to help clarify from my side, it is limited to HARD acceleration followed by immediate braking. Ive cruised at top speed followed by hard braking without any problems. So, braking isnt the issue, its the hard acceleration (much more preventable). Kingsong has been pushing out new firmware updates and made vast improvements to the motor control in the last month, so i believe that this will be a simple firmware update soon. A hard hill climb demanding the same power didnt result in this problem. Other than this motor control problem, the 16X has been a blast to ride. The behaviour shows more on Hard as controller is faster to respond. Not sure what they use, but at least PID or some quadratic regulator. It goes into oscillation mode and boom. So they need to tune parameters... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Paolini Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 12 hours ago, Marty Backe said: If you're a WheelLog user, does it connect to the wheel and does it show the proper battery level? Yes it connects to WheelLog and Gyrometrics. Neither show correct voltage or battery levels - and I trust neither to adjust settings. Darknessbot would not connect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Paolini Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 @The Fat Unicyclist On 7/26/2019 at 4:14 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said: Hey @Gaz Bon - I have some 16X units leaving Shenzhen on Wednesday.. And one unit will become a demo unit (which is code for "my wheel"). I hope to post feedback from a range of users as well as my take on it. And before everyone else asks... Yes, it if it possible, we will be manufacturing an EUC Bodyguard for it too! Can I get an order in for the EUC Bodyguard for the KS16x? Happy to work with prototypes if you like. (Also maybe send one to @Kuji Rolls it looks like his test wheel could really use it!! Kuji The Force is with you man, no idea who you do what you do, I'd be a lump of road rash. And thank you, not just for the testing, communications, but also for your videos too!). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said: Yes it connects to WheelLog and Gyrometrics. Neither show correct voltage or battery levels - and I trust neither to adjust settings. Darknessbot would not connect. Interesting. So it's not an issue with the app. The firmware has to be updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Looking at kuji video it looks like he new the problem was there that's why he filmed it that way and that's why he set off like a nutter and brakes hard , was he testing it for KS maybe , i think he'd of come off worse if it was a suprise 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelr Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, stephen said: Looking at kuji video it looks like he new the problem was there that's why he filmed it that way and that's why he set off like a nutter and brakes hard , was he testing it for KS maybe , i think he'd of come off worse if it was a suprise This has been a known issue. @eddiemoy first reported on what was then a subtle wheel rocking behavior during regular riding. Seems like Kingsong has been fine tuning it to the point where it now only occurs during abrupt decay in acceleration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, wheelr said: This has been a known issue. @eddiemoy first reported on what was then a subtle wheel rocking behavior during regular riding. Seems like Kingsong has been fine tuning it to the point where it now only occurs during abrupt decay in acceleration. Yes i know that's what i was trying to say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Patton250 said: I have a hard breaked mine from 31 mph down to zero also with no problems. You ain't hard braking unless you get the Kuji-wobs™ 😎. 4 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, US69 said: No other Driver uptodate was able to reproduce this extrem behavior...or better lets say: Nobody has run into such a Wheel Feedback! This sounds like an excuse to me trying to downplay the issue with the 16X. If it can happen to Kuji, it can happen to anyone. A wheel with this sort of behavior should never have shipped in the first place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anagnorisis Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: You ain't hard braking unless you get the Kuji-wobs™ 😎. OMG he trade marked it. Are you going to print stickers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, US69 said: Such overhefty lean in and acceleration, followed by crazy overlean braking, just for the Purpose of doing it...is and will be NEVER RECOMMEND! On NO brand Wheel! I can only appeal to a healthy common sense! Couple important points I need you to reflect on and deeply understand: There are multiple paths (repro steps) to an error state. Who's to say this won't repro under the right combination of ordinary parameters? "healthy common sense" - that's what's known as a thought terminating cliché. It's dismissive. 4 hours ago, US69 said: This may have Worked out -until now- for Kuji….as he is perhaps about 65kg!? Didn't realize Kuji was such a fat ass 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On a different note, the efforts around EUC production is amateurish, focusing too much on aesthetics, and not enough on bread and butter research and testing. I'm in the minority, but if Toyota were to produce a wheel, I would happily burn $10k, because their engineering process is something else. They make Germans look like amateurs. Before you balk at that notion, take a moment to consider how EUC manufacturers can't even give us a MTBF or even a maintenance interval. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Before you balk at that notion, take a moment to consider how EUC manufacturers can't even give us a MTBF or even a maintenance interval. That's because a lot of buyers never get to a maintenance point. If you only ride your wheel on smooth pavement, in dry weather, what maintenance would it need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miehlvin Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Some even ship without charger Edited July 29, 2019 by hwoccurrence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Anagnorisis Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 So I only recently purchased my first wheel and that being the GW Nikola. The first issue that occurred was Glue-Gate on the MOSFETs. Once I repaired this I realized that EUC's are a work in progress and we pay to be beta testers, I also have a stinking suspicion that these companies don't really care about MTBF, reliability or even your safety unless it impacts sales. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Or you just buy a wheel that has been on the market for a while. If even the multi-billion dollar car industry has these issues with new models, what do you expect from EUC's. Pretty sure that if you buy a Gotway MSX today you get a bullet proof wheel. But we always want the new thing that just hit the market Edited July 29, 2019 by ir_fuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 BTW how does the KS16X compare to the Gotway MSX, dimension-wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Anagnorisis said: I also have a stinking suspicion that these companies don't really care about MTBF, reliability or even your safety unless it impacts sales. You think that only applies to EUC companies? As fictionalized in Fight Club: Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator: You wouldn't believe. Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for? Narrator: A major one. Edited July 29, 2019 by Jon Stern 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patton250 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, gr8ps said: This sounds like an excuse to me trying to downplay the issue with the 16X. If it can happen to Kuji, it can happen to anyone. A wheel with this sort of behavior should never have shipped in the first place. That’s a little dramatic isn’t it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patton250 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: On a different note, the efforts around EUC production is amateurish, focusing too much on aesthetics, and not enough on bread and butter research and testing. I'm in the minority, but if Toyota were to produce a wheel, I would happily burn $10k, because their engineering process is something else. They make Germans look like amateurs. Before you balk at that notion, take a moment to consider how EUC manufacturers can't even give us a MTBF or even a maintenance interval. I’m starting to think some of you guys take this hobby really seriously. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ir_fuel Posted July 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, Patton250 said: I’m starting to think some of you guys take this hobby really seriously. A maintenance interval for toys! It doesn't have to get any crazier than that 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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