KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

Current Power level is indicated by the number of LED's from 1-12 that light up while the wheel is powered on and idle. (I uploaded a picture and a video earlier in the thread).

If you weren't seeing any, you batter must have been really low... made  a couple of dots or you have the lights off.
 

If the settings in the app are not sticking, try logging-out (under settings in your profile page), the powering the EUC off, then logging into the app with your phone # (it requires phone), then powering the EUC on and connecting. 

 

This is has never been my experience in any of the apps - and in particular on the King Song Apps.

 Me neither. So if we are right that means it doesn’t work.  Honestly I was trying to be optimistic. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Patton250

[Mike Paolini]

So not sure how many of you have seen eWheels.com note on the KS16X getting up and running, and yes I knew about this yesterday but didn't feel this was my information to share at the time - but since it has been released, but I feel it is important to distribute in light of the conversation on wobbles during breaking I'm experiencing at mid and higher speeds.  Yes it may just be me being out of shape and getting my sea legs on this thing, but on the other hand I have zero wobbles below say 15 mph, just a sort vibrations I can feel which I am guessing is caused by the stronger magnets having their field crossed.  That is, I'm not sure it's limited to HARD acceleration and deceleration, and am a little worried it's actually more tied to speed and breaking force requested including moderate levels.

Here's the section of the email & the link:  

Current Firmware Bugs: 

There are two issues in first v1.01 release; the first is that the battery level seems to always display 100%, irrespective of the actual state of the charge.  

The other is that Kuji has found in his extreme limit testing, that under very hard acceleration, follow by deceleration, the 16X can become unstable. KS are working on a firmware fix for these issues shortly. 

Kuji Hard Acceleration & Braking Test

 

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

So not sure how many of you have seen eWheels.com note on the KS16X getting up and running, and yes I knew about this yesterday but didn't feel this was my information to share at the time - but since it has been released, but I feel it is important to distribute in light of the conversation on wobbles during breaking I'm experiencing at mid and higher speeds.  Yes it may just be me being out of shape and getting my sea legs on this thing, but on the other hand I have zero wobbles below say 15 mph, just a sort vibrations I can feel which I am guessing is caused by the stronger magnets having their field crossed.  That is, I'm not sure it's limited to HARD acceleration and deceleration, and am a little worried it's actually more tied to speed and breaking force requested including moderate levels.

Here's the section of the email & the link:  

Current Firmware Bugs: 

There are two issues in first v1.01 release; the first is that the battery level seems to always display 100%, irrespective of the actual state of the charge.  

The other is that Kuji has found in his extreme limit testing, that under very hard acceleration, follow by deceleration, the 16X can become unstable. KS are working on a firmware fix for these issues shortly. 

Kuji Hard Acceleration & Braking Test

 

I'm just happy that only Gotway releases wheels with misc problems.

Sorry, I really can't resist, only because the KingSong fanboys like to always be throwing spears at Gotway as they put in their orders for KingSong.

I have much clearer expectations regardless of which wheel I buy.

[Mike Sacristan]

13 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

the 16X can become unstable.

I watched the clip expecting the 16X to become unstable. Then it oscillated all over the place and he bailed.
My purchase finger has now retracted back into my hand. What a nightmare.
Who will be the next to do a similar test? @Patton250?

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I watched the clip expecting the 16X to become unstable. Then it oscillated all over the place and he bailed.
My purchase finger has now retracted back into my hand. What a nightmare.
Who will be the next to do a similar test? @Patton250?

There's no way in hell that I would ride the 16X given this scenario. It's a bit different, but brings back memories from my MSuper V3s+ oscillation firmware bug.

Once that happens to you, trust me, you'll never want to ride the wheel again until you absolutely know that it's fixed.

KingSong for the win 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

• I want to officially thank @Kuji Rolls for risking life and limb to test these things
• Looks like the same "oscillation on high stress" problem that the V8 sometimes has. Some kind of overcorrecting going wrong near the limits.
• Other than that:  This and the obvious app problems this thread consists of ever since people got their wheels just shows KS and Gotway are equally bad in their own ways.

Edited July 28, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Mike Sacristan]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

There's no way in hell that I would ride the 16X given this scenario. It's a bit different, but brings back memories from my MSuper V3s+ oscillation firmware bug.

Once that happens to you, trust me, you'll never want to ride the wheel again until you absolutely know that it's fixed.

KingSong for the win 

Now we need to find a name.
KingWrong? Too lame.
DingSong? Sounds racist...
SpinWrong? Too complicated and far off.

Also don't worry Marty I have reaction videos for every occasion.

 

[HarpMudd]

5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

• I want to officially thank @Kuji Rolls for risking life and limb to test these things
• Looks like the same "oscillation on high stress" problem that the V8 sometimes has.
• Other than that:  This and the obvious app problems this thread consists of ever since people got their wheels just shows KS and Gotway are equally bad in their own ways.

True true. I vaguely remember slightly over a month ago when an 84V Nikola blew up trying to climb up a very steep hill. Many were saying no way in hell that they would ride the Nikola given this scenario. Now everything is fine and dandy. The 16X issues will be fixed.  The crazy and wild life of early adopters! 

[Jon Stern]

These are exactly the kind of unexpected issues that arise from late changes in a prosuct"'s development process.

When people applauded the change from a 2kW motor to a new 2.2kW one, I warned that this was risky. Maybe this new instability that Kuji has found is not related to the new motor, but certainly the earlier oscillation in the prototypes was.

[neurokinetik]

I have to wonder how many unintended issues may have been caused by the efforts to make the wheel "quiet".

[Mike Paolini]

You know as a Gotway Fanboy myself, I get the crowd here poking at King Song and the Holier-than-thou attitude....  But I do want to point out, that at least King Song is trying to get their quality straight and trying to put safety first, while Gotway keeps making the same mistakes over and over (and I'll admit producing really fun wheels made with some kind of pixie dust in the process).   

Some of these problems, possibly this shake on the KS16X for example, may not be found until the wheels are in the hands of really advanced riders and not the engineers.   Others of these, like underpowered MOSFETS or covering them with heat trapping glue or using too thin gage wire could be predicted. 

I guess what I'm saying is, yesGotway fan's can point to this and the KS18L trolly handle sensor, but make no mistake that the issues aren't in the same league as the Gotway issues, one comes from growing pains and new technologies while the other set comes from cost cutting and is totally predictable by the engineering team, and [sadly] often repeated.

Lumping them together as equivalent is incorrect.    Though I do think we can all agree that like all vehicles, EUC's could use more safety testing and higher margins of engineering tolerance - but just like cars which still have safety recalls, they aren't going to catch everything all the time.

King Song will get this figured out, and in the mean time, the KS16X is still a hell of a fun ride - just not one I'll be pushing too hard.

Just my 2 cents. 

[meepmeepmayer]

10 minutes ago, neurokinetik said:

I have to wonder how many unintended issues may have been caused by the efforts to make the wheel "quiet".

That's just a change in the PWM frequency (mosfet control frequency). I don't believe that has much potential to cause problems. But I'm always ready to be pleasantly surprised by our beloved manufacturers

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

You know as a Gotway Fanboy myself, I get the crowd here poking at King Song and the Holier-than-thou attitude....  But I do want to point out, that at least King Song is trying to get their quality straight and trying to put safety first, while Gotway keeps making the same mistakes over and over (and I'll admit producing really fun wheels made with some kind of pixie dust in the process).   

Some of these problems, possibly this shake on the KS16X for example, may not be found until the wheels are in the hands of really advanced riders and not the engineers.   Others of these, like underpowered MOSFETS or covering them with heat trapping glue or using too thin gage wire could be predicted. 

I guess what I'm saying is, yesGotway fan's can point to this and the KS18L trolly handle sensor, but make no mistake that the issues aren't in the same league as the Gotway issues, one comes from growing pains and new technologies while the other set comes from cost cutting and is totally predictable by the engineering team, and [sadly] often repeated.

Lumping them together as equivalent is incorrect.    Though I do think we can all agree that like all vehicles, EUC's could use more safety testing and higher margins of engineering tolerance - but just like cars which still have safety recalls, they aren't going to catch everything all the time.

King Song will get this figured out, and in the mean time, the KS16X is still a hell of a fun ride - just not one I'll be pushing too hard.

Just my 2 cents. 

Can someone please take away Mike's "Gotway Fanboy" card 

[Mike Paolini]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Can someone please take away Mike's "Gotway Fanboy" card 

I can love their ride and creativity, mTen3, but hate their life endangering cost cutting practices.    Also who the hell using a paper speaker at the bottom of the wheel exposed to the elements (and in particular water)?  But as I said, there is pixie dust in their controller software that just makes them more fun to ride than everybody else.  Hell, I still prefer to ride the mSuper V3 over the KS18L and KS18XL.

 (Also I'd argue Gotway's mTen3 plotted the course for all EUC's to follow - 3" tire, check.  Crazy motor (800w) to weight ratio (22 pounds) and torque, check (KS16x is now roughly 3x that motor at 2200W and double that weight), and inline, rather than extruding, pads check, and a directional body with a front and a back, check). 

[Jerome]

Gotway has found a way to take away the only advantage KS had on them - Reliability. They left Inmotion  reeling on the canvas, and Giant Ninebot wants nothing more to do with the little Honey Badger called Gotway. How has Gotway achieved this? They keep the performance standard high and bring a constant stream of new models or upgrades that their competitors "believe" they have to address in a timely manner. The Inmotion V10/F, Ks18L (first run), and now the KS16X have been sent to market sooner than the normally conservative companies would have like with bad results. When something goes wrong with KS or Inmotion it might required an extensive analysis and perhaps redesign. Something goes wrong with Gotway they stop the presses replace said problem with something bigger/better and re-start.  Gotwqy will likely solve Nikola problems faster than KS will solve KS16X problems. To rub salt on the wound, the Nikola 100v version has already leap-frog over the KS16X before the KS16X even has wings.

King Song needs to fagettabout it with attempts to hang with Gotway on performance and return to it's strength and put out a bug free product that has satisfactory performance for most and is viewed as a high quality, reliable, premium product. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Jerome

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

I can love their ride and creativity, mTen3, but hate their life endangering cost cutting practices.    Also who the hell using a paper speaker at the bottom of the wheel exposed to the elements (and in particular water)?  But as I said, there is pixie dust in their controller software that just makes them more fun to ride than everybody else.  Hell, I still prefer to ride the mSuper V3 over the KS18L and KS18XL.

 (Also I'd argue Gotway's mTen3 plotted the course for all EUC's to follow - 3" tire, check.  Crazy motor (800w) to weight ratio (22 pounds) and torque, check (KS16x is now roughly 3x that motor at 2200W and double that weight), and inline, rather than extruding, pads check, and a directional body with a front and a back, check). 

I hope you're seeing my smiley faces.

I enjoy all my wheels, warts and all 

[Unventor]

Well this KS16X looks a lot like pc online game release. 

*Gone gold (ready for shipment) 

*fast air priority shipping (prerelease download start for pre-orders) 

*Shipping (downloading) 

*Fast shipment end user first few hours (first users login to servers as they are be finializied, then overloaded) 

*Emergency hotfix/patching (First firmware update and app version) 

*Production/shipment halted (longer unscheduled server downtime) 

*2-3 months later smooth fun (great time riding) 

.... Question here is how fast KS are able to smoothen out the speed bumps. 

I don’t think the call out for 50kmh speed and KS buckle for this demand was the best choose. For KS to keep within their safety margins I suspect the late motor change. Not helping either.

So trying to please Gotway users, Kingsong made risky choices... That I do expect them to sort out. After all it is Kingsong. 😎

Firmware fixes are cheaper that having to buy new main board, because you got stuck with fastlane production dude 🙄

So @Marty Backe do I get a KS fan-card 😁? 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Unventor

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Well this KS16X looks a lot like pc online game release. 

*Gone gold (ready for shipment) 

*fast air priority shipping (prerelease download start for pre-orders) 

*Shipping (downloading) 

*Fast shipment end user first few hours (first users login to servers as they are be finializied, then overloaded) 

*Emergency hotfix/patching (First firmware update and app version) 

*Production/shipment halted (longer unscheduled server downtime) 

*2-3 months later smooth fun (great time riding) 

.... Question here is how fast KS are able to smoothen out the speed bumps. 

I don’t think the call out for 50kmh speed and KS buckle for this demand was the best choose. For KS to keep within their safety margins I suspect the late motor change. Not helping either.

So trying to please Gotway users, Kingsong made risky choices... That I do expect them to sort out. After all it is Kingsong. 😎

Firmware fixes are cheaper that having to buy new main board, because you got stuck with fastlane production dude 🙄

So @Marty Backe do I get a KS fan-card 😁? 

Oh, believe me, everyone knows you have KingSong embroidered on your pillow cases 

[Rywokast]

21 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Well this KS16X looks a lot like pc online game release. 

*Gone gold (ready for shipment) 

*fast air priority shipping (prerelease download start for pre-orders) 

*Shipping (downloading) 

*Fast shipment end user first few hours (first users login to servers as they are be finializied, then overloaded) 

*Emergency hotfix/patching (First firmware update and app version) 

*Production/shipment halted (longer unscheduled server downtime) 

*2-3 months later smooth fun (great time riding) 

.... Question here is how fast KS are able to smoothen out the speed bumps. 

I don’t think the call out for 50kmh speed and KS buckle for this demand was the best choose. For KS to keep within their safety margins I suspect the late motor change. Not helping either.

So trying to please Gotway users, Kingsong made risky choices... That I do expect them to sort out. After all it is Kingsong. 😎

Firmware fixes are cheaper that having to buy new main board, because you got stuck with fastlane production dude 🙄

So @Marty Backe do I get a KS fan-card 😁? 

 

 

 

i just dont see how 50 could be a problem with a 2000W motor at all... its no problem on the KS18L/XL.... there are a dozen or more gotway EUCs that can do 50 easily.. i cant see why they thought they needed to change the motor to make 50 safe?? i think all will be solved with firmware updates though, how many issues on the V10 were solved with firmware updates lol, gotway needs to get their ass in gear if they just slow down a little bit, put more of their money into QC and have better boards with the ability to update they will pull away way more customers from KS and IM than they do currently they could have been the number 1 manufacturer if they didnt have such bad QC and werent so overzealous 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

Oh, believe me, everyone knows you have KingSong embroidered on your pillow cases 

Great we agreed 👍

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

41 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i just dont see how 50 could be a problem with a 2000W motor at all... its no problem on the KS18L/XL.... there are a dozen or more gotway EUCs that can do 50 easily.. i cant see why they thought they needed to change the motor to make 50 safe?? 

I think they may have done so because it is a smaller diameter, 16in instead of 18in, and needs more power to do more RPM to get to the same speed? 

The Rockwheel GT16 also has a 2000w and 50km/h isn't safe on it (there's a famous video of a faceplant at 52km/h)

[Patton250]

 I’m going to have to read all these later. However I rode my 16 X today with no issues. Brought it up to 31 mph and slammed on the brakes several times before I came home. The only time it wobbled  was mid range and it was only a little bit and I could tell that was my fault and not the wheel. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

2 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

The other is that Kuji has found in his extreme limit testing, that under very hard acceleration, follow by deceleration, the 16X can become unstable. KS are working on a firmware fix for these issues shortly. 

Kuji Hard Acceleration & Braking Test

 

Holy shit, now I'm happy that I get my 16X very late. In the meantime KS have enough time to fix it...I hope. 

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

So not sure how many of you have seen eWheels.com note on the KS16X getting up and running, and yes I knew about this yesterday but didn't feel this was my information to share at the time - but since it has been released, but I feel it is important to distribute in light of the conversation on wobbles during breaking I'm experiencing at mid and higher speeds.  Yes it may just be me being out of shape and getting my sea legs on this thing, but on the other hand I have zero wobbles below say 15 mph, just a sort vibrations I can feel which I am guessing is caused by the stronger magnets having their field crossed.  That is, I'm not sure it's limited to HARD acceleration and deceleration, and am a little worried it's actually more tied to speed and breaking force requested including moderate levels.

Here's the section of the email & the link:  

Current Firmware Bugs: 

There are two issues in first v1.01 release; the first is that the battery level seems to always display 100%, irrespective of the actual state of the charge.  

The other is that Kuji has found in his extreme limit testing, that under very hard acceleration, follow by deceleration, the 16X can become unstable. KS are working on a firmware fix for these issues shortly. 

Kuji Hard Acceleration & Braking Test

 

that was terrifying.. i wouldnt ride one until that was confirmed to be fixed you can never know when youll need to suddenly slam on the brakes thats a significant safety hazard

[Rywokast]

14 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

I think they may have done so because it is a smaller diameter, 16in instead of 18in, and needs more power to do more RPM to get to the same speed? 

The Rockwheel GT16 also has a 2000w and 50km/h isn't safe on it (there's a famous video of a faceplant at 52km/h)

not sure.. but the tesla can do 60, the nikola can do more than that.. even the acm could do 50.. i think theyre just being overly cautious because it wouldnt be safe for someone 300 lbs to do 50.. maybe the original rockwheel the most current one can do 50 easily enough imo theyre just wanting even more of a safety buffer