KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Patton250]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

A maintenance interval for toys! It doesn't have to get any crazier than that  

 Brother you ain’t kidding. One thing is for sure his comment brightened my day. :-) 

[Nils]

On 7/28/2019 at 9:12 PM, Marty Backe said:

I'm just happy that only Gotway releases wheels with misc problems.

Sorry, I really can't resist, only because the KingSong fanboys like to always be throwing spears at Gotway as they put in their orders for KingSong.

I have much clearer expectations regardless of which wheel I buy.

Yeah, this ^. In general, in my (assuredly limited and short sighted) view none of the manufacturers, in general, have proven themselves able to put out any flagship wheel without any issues as of late. Sure, there are surely some instances where it mostly passed without any major defections  (e.g. the MSX last year), but mostly it hasn't been a smooth ride for any manufacturer.

Starting with last year:

- MSX: No serious widespread issues (least troublesome wheel of the year in my book)

- KS18(X)L: Great wheel(s), but had hard-to-resolve issues with locking up during trollying which could for a substantial period of time also fry the components, killing the wheel

- V10F: Under-performing, but most importantly potentially catching fire with any kind of dire consequences resulting (hooray, my pick of the year )

This year so far:

- Nikola: First one out. First 84V gen with some wheels having adhesive between MOSFETs and the thermal pads killing the MOSFETs, other Nikolas with crappy fans

- KS16X: Late release, but when it now comes still ships with early reported oscillation issues still not addressed fully

- Inmotion ?: MIA. No new is good news?

Now, you could argue  the relative quality merits of each manufacturer compared to another, and perhaps justifiable so, but my point is that it would be beneficial for everyone to just take a breath and realize that at this point in time we're not looking at a great track record for the industry as a whole; we're just not really at a point where any one manufacturer has a clean recent record.

[chrisjunlee]

12 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 I’m starting to think some of you guys take this hobby really seriously. 

More like some of us are engineers and/or strong consumer advocates.

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

More like some of us are engineers and/or strong consumer advocates.

 Well outstanding then. Since we all know that China is famous for making inferior products with cheap parts as an engineer why don’t you head up on American made EUC with extremely high-quality parts and dependability? Then you could probably charge for $5000 for it. Just like the original Segway.  Those things are very dependable.  But you guys seem a little unrealistic expecting more out of China that’s making a wheel that for the most part is used for entertainment and fun. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

On a different note, the efforts around EUC production is amateurish, focusing too much on aesthetics, and not enough on bread and butter research and testing. 

I'm in the minority, but if Toyota were to produce a wheel, I would happily burn $10k, because their engineering process is something else. They make Germans look like amateurs.

Before you balk at that notion, take a moment to consider how EUC manufacturers can't even give us a MTBF or even a maintenance interval. 

Yeah, you're in the minority for sure. Frankly, I'd have an extremely difficult time justifying spending $5k on a wheel let alone $10K. I don't care how good the wheel is.

The thing is, I've been riding for years now and these wheels are damn reliable. The problems that I've had can be considered edge cases.

A non-user inflicted accident (cutout, etc) is extremely rare. Blown MOSFETs occur in extreme conditions and rarely result in anything but scratches, because those extreme conditions by definition equate to low speeds.

I've had wheels careen down mountains, do back-flips, all kinds to brutality, yet they keep working. Our wheels are amazing.

So in away, because EUC life is so good all we can do is nitpick and complain as we do daily here. If we actually needed that $10k wheel, then nobody would be riding wheels because they would be so bad.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Marty Backe

[chrisjunlee]

14 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Brother you ain’t kidding. One thing is for sure his comment brightened my day. :-) 

You throw a tempter tantrum over being speedlocked for a couple of miles - completely giving up on the wheel.

Meanwhile I raise issues to improve best practices which would result in reliability and safety improvements, benefiting the EUC community as a whole, and go a long ways towards mainstream acceptance. Not sure why you're mocking me. 

I guess our values and focus are different. 

[chrisjunlee]

6 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Since we all know that China is famous for making inferior products with cheap parts as an engineer why don’t you head up on American made EUC with extremely high-quality parts and dependability?

*sighs* I don't know where to begin with this. I'll just let you be.

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Yeah, you're in the minority for sure. Frankly, I'd have an extremely difficult time justifying spending $5k on a wheel let alone $10K. I don't care how good the wheel is.

The thing is, I've been riding for years now and these wheels are damn reliable. The problems that I've had can be considered edge cases.

A non-user inflicted accident (cutout, etc) is extremely rare. Blown MOSFETs occur in extreme conditions and rarely result in anything but scratches, because those extreme conditions by definition equate to low speeds.

I've have wheels careen down mountains, do back-flips, all kinds to brutality, yet they keep working. Our wheels are amazing.

So in away, because EUC life is so good all we can do is nitpick and complain as we do daily here. If we actually needed that $10k wheel, then nobody would be riding wheels because they would be so bad.

 But that’s just it. I think what’s happening is a little more than nitpicking. People are flat out accusing KS and on the other thread Gotway  of out flat out irresponsibility or worse.  Some are even saying they should have not even released the 16X or Nikola.  Maybe I am just taking it all the wrong way but some are making these things sound catastrophic.  The whole time I’m saying to myself these things seem fine to me.  I don’t know man. I still say people are expecting too much from China. The first four wheeler I bought my son when he was little was from China. The quality of that thing was nothing compared to the Yamaha four wheeler I bought from Japan. Not even close. 

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

You throw a tempter tantrum over being speedlocked for a couple of miles - completely giving up on the wheel.

Meanwhile I raise issues to improve best practices which would result in reliability and safety improvements, benefiting the EUC community as a whole, and go a long ways towards mainstream acceptance. Not sure why you're mocking me. 

I guess our values and focus are different. 

 Wow! LOL. Throwing a temper tantrum and being aggravated are two completely different things. I haven’t been accused of throwing a temper tantrum since I was three years old. :-)

I didn’t give up on the wheel. I got help here and everything is great now. 

4 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

*sighs* I don't know where to begin with this. I'll just let you be.

Why???  What I said is remarkably accurate.  Everyone knows that. 

[Nils]

3 hours ago, US69 said:

I am not making any excuses, you should not only pick parts of the statement...i clearly sad above: Wheel behaviour is not acceptable!

Nonetheless such really extreme leaning is just not recommend and should be no example...no matter which brand. >Reason saying that is mainly is because i have seen -a lot -faceplants of users doing so...again: On all Brands available. Having enough power for every lean would mean you Need About 10000Watt of (Motor/battery) Power. No Wheel is capable of that.

I dont know what your Wheel experience is...but i can say, that having owned several Brands and a dozen EUC that Quality on KS is better than on several competitors. Which also doesnt mean it can't be improved! Sure it can...

I believe I get what you're saying from this and you previous posts, but if I were to simplify (and perhaps misconstrue) your posts it reads to me like:

1) The wheel is not performing acceptably and KS is working on addressing it  (i.e. the wheel is at fault, and will be improved)

2) It's not really a fault of this wheel as any wheel on earth would suffer the same under the same conditions due to to the general law of physics,  you're riding it wrong.

3) Whatever, KS still has better quality than all the rest

I'm no fan of hasty accelerations of breaking, so I agree with that it's not something to be recommended for anyone. Still, if 2) holds true then 1) seems weird, no?

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Nils

[chrisjunlee]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The thing is, I've been riding for years now and these wheels are damn reliable. The problems that I've had can be considered edge cases.

A non-user inflicted accident (cutout, etc) is extremely rare. Blown MOSFETs occur in extreme conditions and rarely result in anything but scratches, because those extreme conditions by definition equate to low speeds.

I've have wheels careen down mountains, do back-flips, all kinds to brutality, yet they keep working. Our wheels are amazing.

So in away, because EUC life is so good all we can do is nitpick and complain as we do daily here. If we actually needed that $10k wheel, then nobody would be riding wheels because they would be so bad.

Right now, we treat these wheels the same way we treat throwaway consumer electronics. We buy and toss them aside like disposable goods (or they're cheap enough to collect). And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Personally, I would like to know that something I'm spending $2k on is good to last 10 years with regular use and proper maintenance - let's say 100,000 miles. This is the perspective of fresh eyes, not someone who has accepted the status quo.

[Patton250]

How fast did Kuji get up to before hitting the brakes? Does anyone know?

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

Right now, we treat these wheels the same way we treat throwaway consumer electronics. We buy and toss them aside like disposable goods (or they're cheap enough to collect). And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Personally, I would like to know that something I'm spending $2k on is good to last 10 years with regular use and proper maintenance - let's say 100,000 miles. This is the perspective of fresh eyes, not someone who has accepted the status quo.

 I am a person that absolutely loves and buys high-quality things.   What are your thoughts on how we could get to where you are talking about with EUC’s? Do you feel KS and GW are capable of getting there with quality? Or willing?  If not what would be an alternative idea? 

[ir_fuel]

19 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

why don’t you head up on American made EUC with extremely high-quality parts and dependability? Then you could probably charge for $5000 for it. Just like the original Segway.

We're all waiting patiently for @Austin Marhold to release his Pulse Glider . All problems will be solved by that.

 

Unfortunately he seems to have shifted to 4 wheel vaporware .... https://www.onixboards.com/

[ir_fuel]

6 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Personally, I would like to know that something I'm spending $2k on is good to last 10 years with regular use and proper maintenance

There is so much out there on which we spend $2k that never last 10 years. Computers being the first thing that comes to mind.

[Patton250]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

We're all waiting patiently for @Austin Marhold to release his Pulse Glider . All problems will be solved by that.

 

Unfortunately he seems to have shifted to 4 wheel vaporware .... https://www.onixboards.com/

 That thing is pretty cool. 

[ir_fuel]

Just now, Patton250 said:

 That thing is pretty cool. 

Just don't do any downpayment or Kickstarter for it  

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Right now, we treat these wheels the same way we treat throwaway consumer electronics. We buy and toss them aside like disposable goods (or they're cheap enough to collect). And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Personally, I would like to know that something I'm spending $2k on is good to last 10 years with regular use and proper maintenance - let's say 100,000 miles. This is the perspective of fresh eyes, not someone who has accepted the status quo.

Everyone has their own perspective for sure.

I think if you baby your existing wheel it'll be running 10-years from now. But many of us beat the hell out of our wheels and 2-years represents a good run for the money.

Would you expect a 4x4 that you rode every weekend in the back country to last 15-years like most commuter cars can last now? I wouldn't.

I know you've wrapped many of your comments as coming from "someone with fresh eyes", but newness does not equate to wisdom 

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

We're all waiting patiently for @Austin Marhold to release his Pulse Glider . All problems will be solved by that.

Unfortunately he seems to have shifted to 4 wheel vaporware .... https://www.onixboards.com/

I was pinning all my hopes on the Pulse Glider 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

16X looking good! So far as long as you don't test the limits (never a good idea, on any wheel). 

Looking forward to test ride it as soon as the first one arrives to Ireland

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, gr8ps said:

This sounds like an excuse to me trying to downplay the issue with the 16X. If it can happen to Kuji, it can happen to anyone. A wheel with this sort of behavior should never have shipped in the first place. 

Well sounded like (to you) and facts are 2 different things.

To me it didn't sound like an excuse but they know of the problem that they can't reproduce, but that does not mean they can work out precaution so this is what is going on. 

Go back to what Kuji wrote himself then read US69 statements again. 

And yes I am defending the brand that communicate with the community on this forum. 

It so easy to raise the blame finger, compared to give a 🖕for someone trying to make a great product. 

[Genghis]

The 16x does sound like it may be a winner. Hopefully they get the bugs out soon, which I bet they are working hard at. My place in line is either late 1st batch or early 2nd batch. I won't know until eWheels start to mail out the first batch. This will be my first wheel, so I won't be pushing any limits, so I'm not overly concerned with the Kuji-Wobs (although it was scary to watch).  I'm mostly here to get information so I'm better informed when I finally get it. Keep up the good work on new info regarding the KS16X.

[eucinsea]

52 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Personally, I would like to know that something I'm spending $2k on is good to last 10 years with regular use and proper maintenance - let's say 100,000 miles. This is the perspective of fresh eyes, not someone who has accepted the status quo.

You can barely get a $25,000 car to last 100,000 miles these days and that's with maintenance, why do you think a $2k machine will last that long?

[Mike Paolini]

Hot Damn this thread goes down some rabbit holes...   I love you folks so much.

 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

How fast did Kuji get up to before hitting the brakes? Does anyone know?

Does anyone know?? @Kuji Rolls