INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Asphalt]

27kg = 60lbs

2000W motor

84V

Edited April 3, 2020 by Asphalt
imperial conversion

[meepmeepmayer]

I've just seen this 5 minutes ago and had a short look at this thread, but the suspension, the working mudguard (from the looks of it) and that genius kickstand alone are brilliant! Very ambitious project by IM.

[mike_bike_kite]

The big thing I learnt from the presentation was to never do a presentation while wearing a mask

[Dave Wood]

correct me if im wrong but in the presentation it said 3000w motor output so why does the spec chart show 2000?

Edited April 3, 2020 by Dave Wood

[Cumulus Libre]

20 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The big thing I learnt from the presentation was to never do a presentation while wearing a mask

it surely doesn't help to bring over emotions like excitement etc.. 

[Meserias]

I'm admire InMotion to have the courage to push things further ....
all other brands should evaluate their EUC product line

GW rush to launch an MSP with one thing in mind (actually two) .... SPEED and light.
that sound box left unprotected !??!....troley/pedals and so on.
other innovative things has been postponed yet again.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Meserias

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

why not cheer for any brand that is pushing forward our beloved EUC community

I admit, I myself fell into the trap of the early hints and promises. Not much of a surprise that being optimistic about the hints eventually disappoints.

We were hinted with at least 50km/h top speed, probably 56km/h. We were promised a wheel for (off road or) long distance riders. While I practically never pass 50km/h myself, past Inmotions allow the maximum speed for only a short while. And since the real life range would be around 50-55km for me, being throttled below 45km/h after the first 10km is not something I’d tolerate. Or even call long distance.

18x3” tire was news in 2018, MSP already has criminally bright lights that blind everybody else, and 2000W motor is even older news than 2018. There were far fewer breakthroughs or firsts than what I was expecting.

The suspension really is a huge achievement from IM, even if it would be far from perfect. Also I do raise my hat to the brave and unique design. It does look cool in a little funky way. This is an important and long awaited addition to the IM line, and a big step for EUCs, since as we know, KS and GW are designing their own suspensions as we speak.

Quote

battery (wh) looks comparable to anything on the market atm!

1600Wh has been the standard on 18” or 16x3” EUCs for a good while now. KS has 1554Wh, and by throttling only at 25% and running batteries to 3.0V per cell they get great range. A 1420Wh battery that throttles at 75% and is capped at 3.3V would be nowhere near comparable. We just don’t know the specifics yet.

 

30 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

correct me if im wrong but in the presentation it said 3000w motor output so why does the spec chart show 2000?

3000W was the max Mosfet output power.

Edited April 3, 2020 by mrelwood

[Jason McNeil]

There's some great innovation here. Some thoughts on seeing the presentation: 

• 'Inspiration' from the Z10: there's quite a bit of superficial resemblance with the Z10, especially the top cover & faux carbon fiber sides.
• Battery Pack: it's great they were able to fit a 1420Wh pack within the motor housing; Ninebot, in a wider 4" motor just managed to pack in 960Wh. This is going to keep the center of gravity lowered, improving the stability over other Inmotion Wheels. 
• 18W/7800 Lux Headlight: this is an insane amount of light. To be effective, I feel they really ought to add a headlight pitch control knob, allowing the Rider to set their preferred angle of attack. Maybe add a light sensor on the front panel, dipping the beam when encountering an oncoming light source.
• Suspension: it's a pity the presentation didn't include any video clips showing this key feature in action, this is after all the main selling point of the V11.  
• Price: in this current economic climate, a $2,300 price with these base specs is ambitious, it would be a lot more compelling with a <$2k introductory price. 
• Handle: from the standpoint of efficiency, it's great! No internal precious space occupied by telescopic rails, unlike the V5F/V10, seems like a properly engineered solution, hopefully with minimal play in the upright position. 
• Charging: it's disappointing that IM have never heard of a charger capable of more than 1.5A output before. Manufacturers out to recognize the charging capabilities of the actual cells, paring appropriate chargers, 8A @ 84v would be ideal here.    
• Release date: target of late June, which means if everything goes to plan...., first units in Customers hands by early August. The modest upgrade to the V8, the V8F, is currently running six months behind schedule. I'm sure IM will make extra efforts to ensure this new flagship release will run better, but in the minds of most Customers/Distributors, like myself, having this previous project run so far behind, is something that cannot be dismissed from mind.  

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Jason McNeil

[Asphalt]

I really appreciated InMotion's work in putting together this launch presentation, especially during these difficult times. It was no Apple launch, but hey even Apple cancelled their event, so kudos to InMotion for making it happen. Charles, the CEO, made a great effort with his first presentation in English, and it was good to see Liam the marketing manager.

It's great to see an EUC company put in the effort to plan a marketing campaign, rather than quietly launch variations on a wheel. It shows that InMotion is willing to put in the resources to grow interest in EUCs. Quiet launches are fine for enthusiasts who scour every post on every social media platform (you know who you are), but these marketing efforts are more likely to attract new riders.

[RockyTop]

Disclaimer: I am not an InMotion fan. 
I hope this wheel turns out to be the best wheel made to date. I give credit to InMotion for giving us what many have asked for. Suspension, bigger lights. Bigger tires. ..... 

waiting for reviews 

[Nic]

I hope InMotion can get some review samples out well before June.

For me, range is a priority, so unless this EUC has a super efficient motor its probably not going to be my next upgrade. I expect the 75 miles range to translate to 35 miles in real life use and I would really be looking for at least 50-60 miles real world range. If I had a collection of EUCs, then I would definitely buy one of these as its unique and looks awesome.

[shinysideup]

7 hours ago, Asphalt said:

The Air-Spring Suspension is an interesting choice.

Advantages:

• Tuneable for rider weight and riding conditions
• Possibly real-time tuneable with electronic control valves

Disadvantages:

• Air leaks and flats
• Complex maintenance

It'd be amazing if the suspension was adjustable through the app, but since this wasn't mentioned in the presentation, I'm not holding my breathe. I just hope they provide some way to tune the suspension, even if it's just with a bike pump.

Now you want an electric air compressor on an EUC with remote control from the app? You can’t be serious. Does no one like elegance and simplicity? IMO, the suspension is probably overcomplicating one of the best things about the EUC. Basic elegance. So few moving parts.
 

Edit: spelling.

Edited April 3, 2020 by shinysideup
Spelling

[Asphalt]

Just now, shinysideup said:

Now you want an electric air compressor on an EUC with remote control from the app? You can’t be serious. Does no one like elegance and simplicity? IMO, the suspension is probably overcomplicating one of the best thugs about the EUC. Basic elegance. So few moving parts.

InMotion CEO has talked about using AI to adapt the EUC to different riding conditions in real-time. It's not unthinkable to consider real-time adaptive suspension like found in the Tesla Model S and X. InMotion are thinking big, the V11 is the first step in this process.

Personally, I prefer a reliable EUC that works predictably, so I'm not a big fan of AI, but InMotion is targeting the development of much more advanced (and complicated) EUCs.

[Nic]

15 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

InMotion CEO has talked about using AI to adapt the EUC to different riding conditions in real-time. It's not unthinkable to consider real-time adaptive suspension like found in the Tesla Model S and X. InMotion are thinking big, the V11 is the first step in this process.

Personally, I prefer a reliable EUC that works predictably, so I'm not a big fan of AI, but InMotion is targeting the development of much more advanced (and complicated) EUCs.

Do you wish to pay $5000 for your next EUC? All technology comes at a cost and for most of us we have our limits and for me that's closer to $2000 preferably less.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Nic

[mike_bike_kite]

16 minutes ago, shinysideup said:

IMO, the suspension is probably overcomplicating one of the best thugs about the EUC. Basic elegance. So few moving parts.

Maybe they'll produce a cheaper version of this wheel without the suspension, maybe just having a flat mudguard that can be used instead of the stand and perhaps a lower power light that could auto dim for oncoming traffic or aeroplanes (Jason's suggestion). That would then weigh less and hopefully be more in my price range. I do love the look of the wheel though.

[Asphalt]

9 minutes ago, Nic said:

Do you wish to pay $5000 for your next EUC? All technology comes at a cost and for most of us we have our limits and for me that's closer to $2000 preferably less.

For me, it depends on the value I'm getting for $5000. If it can get me from LA to NY in an hour, then yes $5000 is worth it ;P

I'm happy InMotion is pushing the technology. There will always be a budget category for a larger marketshare.

[Gasmantle]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I think it's an ugly looking thing.

 

 

[AtlasP]

• Kudos to InMotion for all of: the technical innovation, the wheel's aesthetics, and the launch event. I think it looks stunning and am super curious and absolutely stoked to see it in action and eventually be able to try it.
• Not seeing any mention here of arguably the single-most-significant advancement introduced--a BMS system which lets you diagnose individual pack health from the app, and which allows a whole pack to fail while still operating using the remaining pack(s)! These are safety features the likes of which have never been seen (and which should likely trickle down to other, cheaper wheels).
• With all the discussion over the past couple years about motor power/torque/software-algorithm-tuning/pedal-responsiveness/etc, it is obvious that simple motor wattage numbers are not sufficient to capture the 'power' of a wheel. With them claiming "50% more [motor] power" with more/bigger magnets and double the mosfets (even though the motor is still rated at 2000W) I am extremely curious to hear impressions from riders about the overall power/torque/feel.
• Given that InMotion has achieved IP55+ ratings on all their wheels, presumably this will be the world's first 31 mph wheel with an IP55+ rating/the current fastest IP55+ rated wheel on the market.
• Happy to see improved lights and particularly love the tail-light which coupled with the wheel's shape (higher and squarer at the top) is almost-certainly the best tail-light we've seen so far.
• Carrying handle, trolley handle, stand, and dual charging-ports all look great.
• Based on the diagram this looks like it could potentially have the best active-cooling of any wheel so far (which everyone knows has been pretty rubbish on pretty much all EUCs up to this point.)
• Curious what the 18"x3" tire actually measures in diameter. (Is it closer to a Nikola/16X/Z10 or 18XL?--I would guess the former.)
• People here criticizing the launch event--seriously? When was the last time Gotway or King Song did a publicly accessible launch event in English with any detail? (We normally have to learn about their launches via obscure forum posts and what shows up on vendor websites with conflicting spec listings.) We should be applauding the effort and holding the other manufacturers to at least the same standard first.

Edited April 7, 2020 by AtlasP

[UniVehje]

About that motor. Rated power can be anything and doesn’t tell all. Looks like one 2000W motor can be 50% more powerful than another 2000W motor. V10F already had nominal 2000W and peak 3000W motor and this one is supposed to be more powerful. 
 

Better not concentrate on the number too much. Real world tests will be more important. At least the motor is bigger so there are more magnets plus it has a stronger board. I hope we will hear more soon. 
 

Edited April 3, 2020 by UniVehje

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Curious what the 18"x3" tire actually measures in diameter. (Is it closer to a Nikola/16X or 18XL?--I would guess the former.)

I don’t see how an 18x3 tire could measure closer to a 16x3 than to a 18x2.5. MSX has a 18x3 tire as well, I’m pretty sure this will be very close in size. So a bit larger than a 18x2.5.

[Asphalt]

2 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

• Not seeing any mention here of arguably the single-most-significant advancement introduced--a BMS system which allows one whole pack to fail while still operating using the remaining pack! That is a safety feature the likes of which has never been seen.

I agree, the BMS is impressive. I just hope that they've solved the issues that Ninebot had with their Smart-BMS system: voltage leaks resulting in shipping dead wheels and regenerative braking only affecting one battery pack.

It was hard to understand in the presentation whether InMotion's V11 BMS will give cell-level information or pack-level information. It would be amazing if individual cell information could be reported, making repairs on bad cells much less expensive.

[AtlasP]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t see how an 18x3 tire could measure closer to a 16x3 than to a 18x2.5. MSX has a 18x3 tire as well, I’m pretty sure this will be very close in size. So a bit larger than a 18x2.5.

All the current 16x3" wheels are really 17.25" in diameter. Meanwhile the Z10 was stated as 18x4.1" and is really 17.5" in diameter. With this being advertised as 18x3" it could very well be in the same 17.25-17.5" ballpark as those others--in fact it likely is.

By contrast the KS18XL is 18.5x2.5" and the MSX is not-quite-19.5"x3".

(These measurements were all by Marty Backe--which aside of the methodology used, should at least be internally consistent in order to provide gross relative comparisons.)

Edited April 3, 2020 by AtlasP

[Stillhart]

Lots of good comments in here and I'll try not to rehash anything that's been said a few times already:

• InMotion bringing an 18x3 is great.  Each of the three major mfrs seems to have their own flavor so bringing this flavor into the high end is a good thing.
• The price seems a little steep given the specs.  Hopefully the innovations make up for the lack of raw specs (like battery size/range).
• High end active cooling appeals to me as someone who lives in a very hot climate.  The hill climbing ability is good for where I live as well.
• The kickstand looks cheap AF and if it comes loose during riding (like when hitting a big bump or something) it'll swing right into the tire and cause problems.  This seems like the kind of thing I'd take off on day 1, just as a safety issue.
• I can't help but think that, between the shape and the extra bits like suspension and cooling, this thing might not take crashes very well.  Lots more parts to break and pay to repair.

Overall, I'm optimistic to see how this thing performs in the real world.  Specs don't always tell the whole story!

[UniVehje]

15 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Not seeing any mention here of arguably the single-most-significant advancement introduced--a BMS system which allows a whole pack to fail while still operating using the remaining pack(s)! That is a safety feature the likes of which has never been seen.

Great point! Easy to miss these important details while focusing on the spec numbers. 

[Jon Stern]

Just now, Stillhart said:

• The kickstand looks cheap AF and if it comes loose during riding (like when hitting a big bump or something) it'll swing right into the tire and cause problems.  This seems like the kind of thing I'd take off on day 1, just as a safety issue.

This depends on the specifics of the design and how well tested it was. I can see ways of designing the latch that would make it practically impossible to accidentally deploy. It does need to be light weight. Features like this should not add excessive weight.