INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Mike Sacristan]

4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

sorry, not angry, just a little disappointed. Its my own fault as I always have expectations that are not so reasonable. I was REALLY hoping THIS was going to force me to buy another wheel.  Being told that I shouldn't want something to be 'better' and should buy something else entirely (things i already own), rubs me a little tho. Being told that something is too dangerous is also not something I enjoy. But you are right, I come off angry and because of this, I keep few friends and imagine people groan as I approach. Your view is noted and I will try to restrain myself from being the devil's advocate, more often. I DO make everyone else seem more tolerable, so there's always that!

I much enjoyed reading all your posts and I didn't see you come across as angry. I just saw you come across as someone who said what he was hoping for. Then other people started saying that what you are hoping for is "wrong" or unrealistic or unsuitable. You defended your views and I admire you for that.

50kmh is slow. If people don't understand it's because they don't want to understand. It's not that they can't relate it's that they refuse to which I see as a very reoccurring behaviour. Reading things like "I don't understand why anyone would ever want to ride faster than X kmh" rubs me the wrong way to the point of utter disgust and almost hating the person (as well as calling them a pig in my mind and thinking about never talking to /write to them again and maybe find a way to ruin their life without them knowing but then I realise I don't have to because they are already doing it to themselves). Phew can I breathe now?

Just about every rider in our Stockholm Cruisers group was disappointed at the speed. The fun starts at 50 kmh. I rarely feel unsafe on my EUCs unless I have too much air in my tyre. If I feel unsafe then I do less of what I am doing until I feel safe again. And practice. Until it feels safe. I ride a 16X with a CX tyre... that's almost as bad as it gets haha. Almost 7000km on it and it still freaks me out sometimes.

Something about a boiling frog... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Something about a heap of sand... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

-------------------------------------

Back to the V11... the suspension is going to be a laugh. As the body moves down (or the wheel moves up) two things will change: 

1. The distance from the pedals to the ground will lessen. This will cause some nice accidents when off-roading over obstacles. I don't think there was ever a time when off-roading where I thought to myself; "Wow it sure would be great if my pedals suddenly got a few cm closer to the ground right now".

2. The leverage applied to the wheel will change causing some nice changes in acceleration/slowing down. As the pedals move further away from the center of the hub we will be applying X% more leverage.

My Mountain Bike has air in it's front forks, I can adjust the amount of air as well as adjust the rebound speed. I can remotely engage or disengage the suspension. There are times I want it and there are times I am trying to do a certain manoeuvre where the suspension will absorb my energy and stop me (like bouncing up a curb). Going down a hill with the front suspension on would be suicide.

Maybe this will give us the excitement we are looking for after all.  Variable acceleration and disorientation while riding.

----------------------

Monster, MSX (any flavour), Tesla, Nikola (any flavour), MSP can all go over 50kmh. An MCM5 could do it in a pinch as well. An unlocked Z10 can do it as well.

Then we have the other top of the line wheels. 18XL and 16X.
So of the top wheels there are less that do 50 and more that do more.

 

[Phong Vu]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

50kmh is slow. If people don't understand it's because they don't want to understand.

Let agree to disagree, 50kmh is not slow for most of us.  
And trust me... when I was young (high school and student time), I used to ride 110kmh, 120kmh on those underbone bike in Vietnam's streets with those open face helmet (not even the 3/4 type, just 1/2 helmet, like skateboard helmet).
Remember about those time still scare me, lol, I will never have the courage to do that again...

I respect people who want more speed tho, just like bike, car, etc... people need is always different, some want top speed, some want something else.  

[Mike Sacristan]

3 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

Let agree to disagree, 50kmh is not slow for most of us.  
And trust me... when I was young (high school and student time), I used to ride 110kmh, 120kmh on those underbone bike in Vietnam's streets with those open face helmet (not even the 3/4 type, just 1/2 helmet, like skateboard helmet).

Remember about those time still scare me, lol, I will never have the courage to do that again...

I respect people who want more speed tho, just like bike, car, etc... people need is always different, some want top speed, some want something else.  

Well said.

I did so many stupid things when I was young. Sometimes when I go to bed I think of some of those stupid things and I my pulse starts racing, my body suddenly twitches or spasms and I feel my face get warm.

Somewhere along the way we stopped being kids and turned into adults. Then we became old.

Riding an EUC we can break free of that.  At least now and then.

Remember about those time still scare me, lol, I will never have the courage to do that again...

Best sentence ever lol and describes exactly what I have felt many times.

[.....]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Remember about those time still scare me, lol, I will never have the courage to do that again...

 

Best sentence ever lol and describes exactly what I have felt many times.

Having to ever admit that to myself is what I fear the most.   "I don't wanna grow up, I'm a toys r us kid"  (not accepting new members anymore)

[Phong Vu]

We were all once young and stupid... beautiful time... but scary   

[Mike Sacristan]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Having to ever admit that to myself is what I fear the most.   "I don't wanna grow up, I'm a toys r us kid"  (not accepting new members anymore)

I spent way too much time at Toys R Us just looking at the toys I could never have.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't have any expectations of getting access to one of these wheels 

Wow you get around!?Wasn’t that you at the presentation?

I missed out on the live presentation this morning but after watching the replay I must say “ how can anyone not be intrigued about this fantastic machine! “

The R&D funds that Inmotion invested in this state of the art design must have been massive. If the V11 suspension turns out to be a solid, flawless design in terms of functionality and longevity it could be a huge game changer in the industry. 

I’m sold on this wheel even without seeing a demo ride. I placed my order through Ewheels a few minutes ago. 

 

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Wow you get around!?Wasn’t that you at the presentation?

I missed out on the live presentation this morning but after watching the replay I must say “ how can anyone not be intrigued about this fantastic machine! “

The R&D funds that Inmotion invested in this state of the art design must have been massive. If the V11 suspension turns out to be a solid, flawless design in terms of functionality and longevity it could be a huge game changer in the industry. 

I’m sold on this wheel even without seeing a demo ride. I placed my order through Ewheels a few minutes ago. 

 

Well done. You had me going for a second - whoa, EWheels is already taking pre-orders???

You only messed up by putting April 30th - way too soon 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I much enjoyed reading all your posts and I didn't see you come across as angry. I just saw you come across as someone who said what he was hoping for. Then other people started saying that what you are hoping for is "wrong" or unrealistic or unsuitable. You defended your views and I admire you for that.

50kmh is slow. If people don't understand it's because they don't want to understand. It's not that they can't relate it's that they refuse to which I see as a very reoccurring behaviour. Reading things like "I don't understand why anyone would ever want to ride faster than X kmh" rubs me the wrong way to the point of utter disgust and almost hating the person (as well as calling them a pig in my mind and thinking about never talking to /write to them again and maybe find a way to ruin their life without them knowing but then I realise I don't have to because they are already doing it to themselves). Phew can I breathe now?

Just about every rider in our Stockholm Cruisers group was disappointed at the speed. The fun starts at 50 kmh. I rarely feel unsafe on my EUCs unless I have too much air in my tyre. If I feel unsafe then I do less of what I am doing until I feel safe again. And practice. Until it feels safe. I ride a 16X with a CX tyre... that's almost as bad as it gets haha. Almost 7000km on it and it still freaks me out sometimes.

Something about a boiling frog... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Something about a heap of sand... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

-------------------------------------

Back to the V11... the suspension is going to be a laugh. As the body moves down (or the wheel moves up) two things will change: 

1. The distance from the pedals to the ground will lessen. This will cause some nice accidents when off-roading over obstacles. I don't think there was ever a time when off-roading where I thought to myself; "Wow it sure would be great if my pedals suddenly got a few cm closer to the ground right now".

2. The leverage applied to the wheel will change causing some nice changes in acceleration/slowing down. As the pedals move further away from the center of the hub we will be applying X% more leverage.

My Mountain Bike has air in it's front forks, I can adjust the amount of air as well as adjust the rebound speed. I can remotely engage or disengage the suspension. There are times I want it and there are times I am trying to do a certain manoeuvre where the suspension will absorb my energy and stop me (like bouncing up a curb). Going down a hill with the front suspension on would be suicide.

Maybe this will give us the excitement we are looking for after all.  Variable acceleration and disorientation while riding.

----------------------

Monster, MSX (any flavour), Tesla, Nikola (any flavour), MSP can all go over 50kmh. An MCM5 could do it in a pinch as well. An unlocked Z10 can do it as well.

Then we have the other top of the line wheels. 18XL and 16X.
So of the top wheels there are less that do 50 and more that do more.

 

 You had me going there for a second. I was thinking, "somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed today"

I love your commentary about off-roading and the suspension. Really, when have I ever wished to instantly lose 2 to 3 inches of clearance  

[mrelwood]

52 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

when have I ever wished to instantly lose 2 to 3 inches of clearance  

I have! Every single time my teeth hit eachother while riding on the sharp dips made by horseshoes on soft dirt. Or when riding on the overly coarse new gravel laid on my favourite outdoorsy cycleways. And so on.

The maximum pedal height on the V11 is something like 6.5”, so there is a bit of something to give away from.

Besides, the dangerously low reaching side panels will be scratching on rocks, roots and curbs loud enough to make you forget all about the pedal clearance!

@Mike Sacristan, they have been working on the suspension for a full year. I’m sure there has been time to try out a prototype or a few before deciding to manufacture it in large scale and sell it as a flagship product. I’m sure they have already scratched a few worst functioning ideas, toward which your doubts might well have been more relevant.

[Unventor]

Just a thing in pedal clearance  that change on suspension. 

I am pretty sure they have tested how much is needed in total height and distance to have enough effect to work.

If you hit a curb or a rock the wheel would go up into the case and the over the obstacle. Comming down this it where you as a rider need to adjust your riding behaviour. I don't view this as a off-road in the place where none have been before option. But more like light off-road on trails. So I wouldn't ride between boulders, but on trails that have a rock or gravel or sand/dirt this could be pretty sweet.

This suits me just fine. So in an urban environment I really don't see any downside to have suspension other than once you get used to it, it will be a hard thing not to have on your other wheels.

Now I know this isn't a car but you do not really think much on road clearance on a daily basis when driving. Nor that the suspension makes the car  come closer to the ground as the suspension compress. Yes if you go on gravel roads or dirt roads, it might be something you are more aware of. But going in a no-road situation this is where you pick you path. Even in a car you have to consider this. You can't just forget that things have limitations to what it can do.

@Mike Sacristan you know very wel what I think of speed. Trust me, if you ride 60kmh it is only a matter of time before you want to go 70 or 80 or more. A speed craving never stops.

So in general the time when things goes wrong for what ever unforeseen reason, that is when you realise that the body isn't build for those impacts that come at those speeds. 

If 50kmh isn't enough for you. Then I seriously think you need to look at other type of rides. This is my opinion to anyone riding an EUC. It doesn't have a backup plan if something fails or it cutout. No matter how safe or comfortable it is to ride. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Unventor

[xorbe]

Well I'm not really sure what to think,

Seems like this unicycle is pretty unique.

I'm just going to wait for @Marty Backe,

To try and kill it at his local testing track.

[Gaz Bon]

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The R&D funds that Inmotion invested in this state of the art design must have been massive. If the V11 suspension turns out to be a solid, flawless design in terms of functionality and longevity it could be a huge game changer in the industry. 

If it was a solid and flawless design they would have rode it to the stage or jumped off the stage to show  the suspension in action but i fear its still a work Inmotion 

EDIT by @Marty Backe: That quote above should be attributed to @Rehab1 since I didn't write it

Edited April 4, 2020 by Marty Backe
incorrect quote

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I have! Every single time my teeth hit eachother while riding on the sharp dips made by horseshoes on soft dirt. Or when riding on the overly coarse new gravel laid on my favourite outdoorsy cycleways. And so on.

The maximum pedal height on the V11 is something like 6.5”, so there is a bit of something to give away from.

Besides, the dangerously low reaching side panels will be scratching on rocks, roots and curbs loud enough to make you forget all about the pedal clearance!

@Mike Sacristan, they have been working on the suspension for a full year. I’m sure there has been time to try out a prototype or a few before deciding to manufacture it in large scale and sell it as a flagship product. I’m sure they have already scratched a few worst functioning ideas, toward which your doubts might well have been more relevant.

The Nikola pedals are just shy of 6-1/2 inches and they hit rocks all the time on the kind of trails I often ride. Pedals that dip lower could be disastrous for some kinds of trail riding.

Don't get me wrong. I'm very intrigued and maybe the suspension only moves substantially when hitting horseshoe dips. Then it would be great for trails. So hopefully it's a tight suspension.

We will need to get some first hand reports on how this wheel actually behaves. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, xorbe said:

Well I'm not really sure what to think,

Seems like this unicycle is pretty unique.

I'm just going to wait for @Marty Backe,

To try and kill it at his local testing track.

Most likely I will not get access to this wheel. Inmotion plays things really close and doesn't provide early releases to their distributors like EWheels. Given the spec's I'm not willing to depart with $2300 for this wheel.

I'm sure plenty of others will be able to test this wheel.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Marty Backe

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

You only messed up by putting April 30th - way too soon 

Yah I purposely messed up. If I had posted June 30th as the release date Jason would have been inundated with calls. I need to remain on his good side for when he actually does begin taking orders. 

[mike_bike_kite]

6 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

50kmh is slow.

I guess it depends on rider skill, local road conditions and whether they have children. 50kph is way faster than most of us want to go on our wheels. t would be interesting to get a report from @Sebaas to what percentage of riders regularly ride faster than 50kph. My guess would be very few.

10 hours ago, WaveCut said:

It's lensed, will work the same as autoomobile light, not blinding ppl in front but laying the beam gently

Do remember that car lights stay level with the road. They can also be dipped both manually and automatically so not to blind oncoming traffic. With an EUC that's not the case, If you're riding down an incline then your light will be pointing straight into oncoming driver's eyes. With powerful headlamps this becomes a safety issue and it's unclear whether this has been addressed. Many folk when they reach their 50's find they're easily blinded by oncoming lights - I find these modern high brightness lights a nightmare.

[GyroRideRz]

The design is clearly inspired by the Z10 for the top of the wheel and i love that 

 3 things worry me: 

1- Is it really possible to do 50km/h with a tilt back that starts at 55 or do we have tilback at 50km/h which would be really annoying
2- Will it really be possible to cover a distance of 50km ( the 120km announced is a joke as usual and have to be divided by 2 in my opinion) with an average speed of 45-50km/h? Because if you have to drive at 25-30km/h to reach this autonomy, there's no point because you fall back into the big problem of the Z10.
3 - I applaud the innovation of the suspensions, but I have big doubts about the longevity of the thing for daily use + intensive offroad at the weekend. 

Can't wait to the first tests of this new beast 

Edited April 4, 2020 by GyroRideRz

[Rehab1]

21 hours ago, Tazarinho said:

Maybe heavy riders won't have any

 

Hopefully the suspension system is not a static design with zero adjustability and not based on the average 66kg Chinese rider.   If so the compression of the shocks could begin to max out with a heavier rider off roading. I’m confident that IM’s adroit engineers  have addressed that issue.

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Most likely I will not get access to this wheel. Inmotion plays things really close and doesn't provide early releases to their distributors like EWheels. Given the spec's I'm not willing to depart with $2300 for this wheel.

I'm sure plenty of others will be able to test this wheel.

When I asked Liam about user early test/review/demos. You can see his reaction to this as I posted this yesterday.

[Unventor]

Now when looking at how the wheel looks, I think it is clear to anyone it means business. it isn't like a kids hoverboard toy. Regardless of what people had hoped for at specs. 

This alone I find interesting. As it moves towards products that aren't as easy to push away and say are unsafe to be ridden at reasonable speeds. I know some countries are wild west with no laws (almost) but for us in countries still fighting for acceptance and using them in public traffic, this could be a great product to list. 

In the country I live the speed limit is 20kmh and you are treated as a cyclist in the general traffic laws. So I rather be able to go up to 45kmh legal, than having wheels that can go much fast than I ride for 2 reason:

• ·       I don't want to get into trouble (in case of a crash/with law or police/)
• ·       I don't want to stress myself (as speeds over 40kmh makes it hard for me to anticipate a large enough radius around me in daily traffic).

So despite the specs I do see this as a game changer, maybe not in the way most others here do, but to me it look almost perfect balance beside 2 things, weatherproofing listed as IP55 and the pricing due to the lower battery. 

The order below is random,

• ·       As for trolley, look fine to me, I have seen worse solutions.
• ·       The lights look great on paper, first impression still okay, when you ride, I don't know yet.
• ·       As for rim size combined with tire, look great too.
• ·       The suspension part, I am looking forward to that. It might not be good for all type of use, but for me it would be great 99% of the time. I do have other wheels anyway...
• ·       Battery, a little disappointing, but I believe it is a trade of between power demand, space, weight, price.
• ·       The weight of the wheel, yes one of the heaviest wheels so far (I don’t recall if the GW monster is heavier), I doubt it matters much in the end, as I don't lift my wheel much.
• ·       No speakers, not an issue as I took @Mike Sacristan advice and bought myself a Bose BT speaker. (Soundlink micro). I rather use weight/space and money on other thingsin the wheel.
• ·       Side light, might be good, but in traffic laws here you must be yellow only. So in a way I am glad the disco light are gone. Again, I rather use weight/space and money on other things. Maybe a yellow reflector on the sides would be nice.

I don’t think wheel is for everyone. But to me it ticks most boxes I have of wishes. But I had my fair share of 1st batch issue ( though that was KS) and not in direct need so I can sit on my hands this time. Maybe if we get some awesome reviews/reports how it rides and such I might change my mind. On the other hand we don't know much about the next wheel in october from inmotion and I think KS were making something too, but it has been pretty quit from them so far.

  (As for @Marty Backe it is at least 3” wide tire so it can’t be all dead.)

I just have one big worry, how it is to service and how to maintain/clean this.

 

[Simone Malicius]

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Using the V10 as the Inmotion model, I expect this to be a 50km/h wheel for the first 20% of the battery. And I bet even at 100% battery it will be tilting back gently before 50km/h

It's just part of Inmotions MO. Knowing wrong with that. But if they are going to compete with the big boys (KingSong and Gotway) then they have to deliver the goods.

Can't wait to see how this actually performs during a 80-km ride

and this bring me back to my personal " idea of EUC " 

why do i like inmotion? cause they set SAFETY FIRST ... as we have all seen by many videos reckless drivers wants/desire to keep TOP speed for the entire last of the battery and that will carry several problems , read cutoff or similars ! 

While Inmotion idea is more on safety direction... 50km/h is a lot over one single wheel  so if it can keep it for the first 20% of battery and than gently slow down i would not mind at all and whoever is concerned about safety this should be applauded ! 

if we could ( i do.. ) for one moment STOP the idea of TOP SPEED we would see how much inmotion engineers have done on this wheel and this might be a trigger also for competition to start something new over euc world ! 

the thing of top speed to me sounds like when we were kids " who has it bigger .. " lol  we are grown up and tell me , after so many years does it still count who has it bigger?  

About V11 i still have some doubts weight above all and i'm so curious to know how those suspensions will perform !!!  i'd say that in this world wide moment innovation might be the key for the hope of a brighter future ! 

[Simone Malicius]

12 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Ive hit the ground more than once in excess of 40mph, you can survive and recover(dirt bikes, bicycles, street bikes). The debate is safety vs speed i guess. When i hear 'pro', I assume that 'safety' falls further down the list. Riding along a canyon edge or near 60mph traffic... safe?  Maybe it would be the end an euc company IF they catered to the individual that accepts risk and chooses to push it or not. Fwiw, i was never normal, so hitting the pavement hard, wont fix that.  I'd imagine the guys involved in X-games, are aware of the deadly risks they take, yet they still take them. I would suspect that IF an euc maker made a model that would realistically keep up with traffic, helmet laws would begin being written into the books. Hell, i could foresee them being mandated to be insured as well. At a certain threshold, politics surely do interfere. Streetable Scooters vs mopeds illustrate that fairly well.

another point.. so a part of you wants EUC to be a sport , nothing wrong with that ! but i believe majority of people see EUC as an alternative to daily commute and that is the main difference!

needs will be different cause of this.. u want a very high top speed, i want 35/40km/h no more , you want a huge battery that will allow you to do 100KM and cause of it a very heavy wheel ,me i want a battery that will allow me to do 50KM and thus a lighter wheel !

 

[Dave Wood]

IMO 50kmh is plenty fast enough for a 1 wheel device, as already stated theres no backup plan if something fails or it cutout so if you need to go faster safety get a motorcycle.. i don't even know why people are surprised about the top speed because EVERY company seemingly are cutting back the top speed on their machines and quite rightly if we really want worldwide legalization, even gotway are following this trend and stopped manufacturing the MSX to solely concentrate their the msuper pro, don't be surprised if they do exactly the same with their next version of the nikola

[gon2fast]

Seems like the ideal wheel for seated riding... if the suspension is legit.