INMOTION V11 (2020)

[jonm42]

11 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

If you ship me a wheel I’ll gladly donate one of my balls for a  extinguishing experiment.  

Ow. Now there's an experiment you can only try twice.

[fryman]

56 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

If you ship me a wheel I’ll gladly donate one of my balls for a  extinguishing experiment.  

That would leave you with one ☝️ 

[davinche]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Thank you. It seems the GW fanboys jumped the Inmotion channel again today to push for 35mph. But your post is exactly what I tried to state yet they seem only to troll. It would be way too easy to end up in a new KS16X top-speed situation by changing key spec to late in development.

Not sure why you think everyone who disagrees with you is trolling... But like I said in the Inmotion channel, why are you so insistent on regulating the speed of the device? You mentioned laws regulating speed limit, but that is not a fair comparison since regulations are in place to regulate behavior not the actual device. Your car can go 100km/h, but that doesn't mean you go 100km/h all the time. If the city limits you to 50km/h, you go 50 not because your vehicle is limited to 50, but because you're a well behaved law abiding citizen. So why can't that carry over to EUC riders?

I also fail to understand why you think Inmotion is destined to compromise safety if they push the wheel to 35mph. They're still working on the wheel, and upgrades (like the change in battery) may make it possible to raise the speed to 35mph without compromising their initial safety measures.

You also seem very defensive about your situation. Threatening in the chat to "cancel your preorder" if inmotion indeed raises the upper speed limit? Why would you cancel when a manufacturer over delivers on what they initially promise? Are you going to cancel because they lowered the price from $2200 to $2000? It's just a very bizarre position to take.

Edited April 22, 2020 by davinche

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, fryman said:

That would leave you with one ☝️ 

Good one!  Will I need to change my avatar if the voice climbs an octave or two? 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Rehab1

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, jonm42 said:

Ow. Now there's an experiment you can only try twice.

Sounds like you and @fryman  have some plan up your sleeve. 

[onizukagto]

Quote

I think there is a poll on reddit where people vote on which they gonna pre-order.

It's like 50% S18 - 20% V11.

I like these percentages.

 

It means there is a chance for me to grab one! 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, davinche said:

Not sure why you think everyone who disagrees with you is trolling... But like I said in the Inmotion channel, why are you so insistent on regulating the speed of the device? You mentioned laws regulating speed limit, but that is not a fair comparison since regulations are in place to regulate behavior not the actual device. Your car can go 100km/h, but that doesn't mean you go 100km/h all the time. If the city limits you to 50km/h, you go 50 not because your vehicle is limited to 50, but because you're a well behaved law abiding citizen. So why can't that carry over to EUC riders?

I also fail to understand why you think Inmotion is destined to compromise safety if they push the wheel to 35mph. They're still working on the wheel, and upgrades (like the change in battery) may make it possible to raise the speed to 35mph without compromising their initial safety measures.

You also seem very defensive about your situation. Threatening in the chat to "cancel your preorder" if inmotion indeed raises the upper speed limit? Why would you cancel when a manufacturer over delivers on what they initially promise? Are you going to cancel because they lowered the price from $2200 to $2000? It's just a very bizarre position to take.

No what you don't see to grasp still that everything they have worked on has been towards 50kmh limit. Change this means very little in time getting from A to B. But with all you "pro" people jumping the channel yesterday trying to push for something Inmotion have resisted from day 1 when they talked with sellers about the wheel. 

The reason I mention laws is I am not above this. And despite what some think about it EUC are not treated as cars or mc. There are a max construction possibility allowed. It isn't enough to just limit the wheel. So I could end buying a wheel for 2000+ € that I risk getting confiscated any time it is in public road traffic. The 50kmh is so close to option for register it as a moped class vehicle. But 56kmh is more than tolerance to the max 45kmh. 

This means that I am not riding this fast any time at all. Most don't ride this fast all time not even frequent. But it will have a huge impact when I am stopped by police. And the more riding around fast the bigger the risk for getting the polices level eye on us. Rental escooters are bad enough.

So since the "pro" flag kept being referred to yesterday, a real pro know there is a time and place for everything. Also a pro isn't about thinking you have "skill" beyond physics possible. It is about being paid for what you do. 

I will at any time right now argue that more than 50kmh is not necessary on an EUC. Crossing that barrier and I will not buy it. It is constructed for something I don't need and not allowed to by law. 

[mrelwood]

50 minutes ago, Unventor said:

No what you don't see to grasp still that everything they have worked on has been towards 50kmh limit.

They announced already last year that they are targeting for a top speed of 56 km/h.

Quote

Change this means very little in time getting from A to B.

Did someone really use this as an argument? If so, that was lame.

Quote

The 50kmh is so close to option for register it as a moped class vehicle. But 56kmh is more than tolerance to the max 45kmh.

I can see that you have your personal limits and tolerances, but that‘s not how it goes in the eyes of the law.

 If a vehicle is allowed max 45km/h to be registered in a certain class, it doesn’t matter if the actual top speed is 46 or 80 km/h, it doesn’t pass, period.

 But the bigger issue is that (at least in my country) an EUC can’t be registered as a moped without changing the actual vehicle class requirements. Good luck with that happening, like, ever.

 Another point that has been made a few times now is that the point of the speed increase would not to be to be able to cruise at 56km/h. But to be able to cruise at 50km/h without surfing on a tilted back wheel, and even if there are miniature downhills on the road. And to be able to do that even when the battery is slightly below 70%. Or 50%, or whichever they choose for the throttling to start.

 Nobody would buy a car with a top speed of what they plan on cruising at.

Quote

But it will have a huge impact when I am stopped by police.

If you are riding an unregistered vehicle in traffic, it really doesn’t matter at all wether the top speed of the vehicle is 50 or 56 km/h.

Quote

It is constructed for something I don't need and not allowed to by law. 

The law in Finland says that 25 km/h is the maximum hard wired top speed that’s allowed for EUCs. So at least for anyone living here the law is a pretty much an irrelevant point regarding anything EUC.

 Unless you talk about the Ninebot S2, but come on...

[davinche]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

No what you don't see to grasp still that everything they have worked on has been towards 50kmh limit. Change this means very little in time getting from A to B. But with all you "pro" people jumping the channel yesterday trying to push for something Inmotion have resisted from day 1 when they talked with sellers about the wheel. 

The reason I mention laws is I am not above this. And despite what some think about it EUC are not treated as cars or mc. There are a max construction possibility allowed. It isn't enough to just limit the wheel. So I could end buying a wheel for 2000+ € that I risk getting confiscated any time it is in public road traffic. The 50kmh is so close to option for register it as a moped class vehicle. But 56kmh is more than tolerance to the max 45kmh. 

This means that I am not riding this fast any time at all. Most don't ride this fast all time not even frequent. But it will have a huge impact when I am stopped by police. And the more riding around fast the bigger the risk for getting the polices level eye on us. Rental escooters are bad enough.

So since the "pro" flag kept being referred to yesterday, a real pro know there is a time and place for everything. Also a pro isn't about thinking you have "skill" beyond physics possible. It is about being paid for what you do. 

I will at any time right now argue that more than 50kmh is not necessary on an EUC. Crossing that barrier and I will not buy it. It is constructed for something I don't need and not allowed to by law. 

The problem I have with your arguments is that you're always talking about your own personal needs. "I never ride above _km/h", "I risk getting it confiscated", "it will have a huge impact when I am stopped by the police". You talk about Inmotion serving a global economy, but you also always only refer to your own preferences / needs. And when they don't match what other people want/need, you think we're trolling you when we disagree.

Look, if regulation is your top concern then the appropriate action is to talk to Inmotion about limiting the speed or whatever for your country only. A bunch of escooters already do this (artificially limit the speed). No need to constantly talk down to people who have wishes that are different than yours. At the end of the day, market demand will drive the development and sales.

Edit/Note: I also never claimed to be a "pro" in the chat. But inmotion did initially advertise this wheel as a wheel that will accommodate pro riders. What do you think Inmotion meant when they said "pro"?

Edited April 22, 2020 by davinche

[UniVehje]

I agree with @mrelwood and @davinche above. Personally I don't need more speed as I ride mostly on trails where it's impossible to ride so fast and the roads where 55 km/h would be possible are boring anyway. But there's no need to talk down other people who have different needs for speed. Regulation is a real thing but we are past the limits already, as stated above. 

I think what limits InMotion is the fact that they need to have the top speed supported officially. At the moment there are no EUC manufacturer supporting that speed in that way. Gotway are stating max safe speed at 20 km/h and then just allow the tilt back to be removed. They are not promising, that any 120 kg person can cruise 55 km/h and encounter a speed bump or slight incline safely. InMotion doesn't work that way. If they set official max speed at higher, they might have to lower the weight limit. Or maybe their new wheel could do higher speeds safely but they just think it's not a good idea on one wheel. I don't really know the real reason but I'm sure it's more complicated than we think. It could also be about keeping their products below certain regulation trigger points. All they'd need to do is to allow tilt back to be removed and it would be a fast wheel but what would be the official supported number then? Their wheels are sold everywhere and somebody needs to be responsible when bad things happen. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

The 50kmh is so close to option for register it as a moped class vehicle. But 56kmh is more than tolerance to the max 45kmh. 

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I can see that you have your personal limits and tolerances, but that‘s not how it goes in the eyes of the law.

 If a vehicle is allowed max 45km/h to be registered in a certain class, it doesn’t matter if the actual top speed is 46 or 80 km/h, it doesn’t pass, period

Was about to write the same thing when I read that BS.   Thanks!

Sorry @Unventorbut that's really big nonsense. 

[Espen R]

My love for EUC’s created a fear of it being taken away by some government regulation, and I saw GW speed riders as the reason why this would happen, so I do understand your point @Unventor. After 47 years on this planet, I can’t brag about any form of wisdom, but I have learned one important lesson; It’s all about perspective. I’ve been, and sadly still is, dead sure of many things in life, viewed from my own subjective perspective, but as soon as I manage to see something from a different perspective, my certainty vanishes. Little by little I’ve learned to doubt and question myself, especially on the things I’m most certain about, and to this date I still haven’t been able to find something that is true from all perspectives.

There are many perspectives to view the speed of EUC’s, and you, @UniVehje and @mrelwood have all valid arguments, and so does the GW speed daemons. Apart from the 1-2% who enjoys hurting and ridiculing others, nobody does anything deliberately to hurt anyone, it’s all about perspective, and trying to convince others to adapt your perspective doesn’t make it truer. We don’t have much when it comes to individual intelligence, but we do have a hive intelligence, and that is quite substantial. Every perspective must be addressed and tried out before we can collectively conclude anything, and this will be true when it comes to EUC’s as well. Hive intelligence is not based on arguments or convictions, it’s all about facts. Through the history of mankind this is how we’ve always done things, trying every option and move forward with those that worked. You can watch other EUC riders do stupid things from your own perspective, and they can watch you being overly cautious and boring from their perspective, and you can argue all you want, but the only thing that matters is gathering facts for the hive, and for that everyone is doing a great job doing what seems right from their perspective:) 

[DjPanJan]

We all know. 

V10F not 40KMH real 35 

KS 16X NOT 50KMH REAL 45

V11 propably not 50 real 45 

S18 PROPABLY 50 REAL 45 

THINK ABOUT KING SONG FAKE SPEED CALCULATION WHEEL SPD VS REAL GPS SPEED. 

Speed is not king for me all 45+ is ok for me i no ride with cars. Temperature is king for me how euc handle heat. What overheat mainboard motor both bms battery? That is weak point what i watch. V11 I HOPE ADRESS THIS. No more please get off. And posibility to offline calibration is key feature for me too. 

 

 

[John John]

Besides, speeds and battery talks, I would like to see a video from Inmotion with all steps required to change a tire ( in case we'll have a flat tire  ) and suspension maintenance.

PS: Also, for a long-journey I want form Inmotion a battery-pack and to be able to charge while using the wheel.

[Nic]

12 hours ago, Unventor said:

But technically black isn't a colour, it is a contrast.

 

Quote

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black

Black is the darkest color, the result of the absence or complete absorption of visible light. It is an achromatic color, a color without hue, like white and gray.

 

 

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, DjPanJan said:

THINK ABOUT KING SONG FAKE SPEED CALCULATION WHEEL SPD VS REAL GPS SPEED. 

Do you know any Gotway real numbers? I've never seen anybody report those. GPS speed and distance will always be less than measured from rotations. Rotations are exact but the wheel never travels on straight line. Phone GPS measures position once a second and calculates the difference. It's also not very precise. KingSong might have wrong circumference on their firmware, but the rotations are probably calculated correctly. I don't think they intentionally inflate them. On V10F I don't remember to be 5 km/h discrepancy. 

But anyway, I think this is a side issue. And I don't think Gotways are exactly correct either. The overheating issue has been addressed on V11. 

[DjPanJan]

My fault i mean V10F real speed is 35kmh because after 200 meters of my house i can ride 35km/h maximum. 40km/h is science fiction for ppl 100kg+. V10F very agressive reduce speed because batery discharge. REAL i mean posibility what speed EUC can ride in real world some kilometers with  Heavy/Fat/Big 🐷🐷🐷 riders like me.  i no write anything about Gotway because i have 0 experience with gotway EUC.  

I now my english is garbage and make only chaos i try stop posting here on forum. 😢😿😭

Edited April 22, 2020 by DjPanJan
edit about gotway

[mrelwood]

 

45 minutes ago, John John said:

suspension maintenance.

Inmotion has mentioned that pumping air to the suspension units once a month is all the maintenance that is required. They have a video on how to do it, it’s dead simple.

 But I’m not sure how many years of maintenance that covers. Maybe something else should also be done once every year or two years.

[fryman]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Another point that has been made a few times now is that the point of the speed increase would not to be to be able to cruise at 56km/h. But to be able to cruise at 50km/h without surfing on a tilted back wheel, and even if there are miniature downhills on the road. And to be able to do that even when the battery is slightly below 70%. Or 50%, or whichever they choose for the throttling to start.

 Nobody would buy a car with a top speed of what they plan on cruising at.

Very good points!  We need to balance this with not continuing pushing for more speed.  The more the speed folks keep pushing the limits, the greater chance accidents will happen and  the perception that there could be an accident from a bystander (you do not have to go fast to have an accident) and then the governments will get involved. There goes our freedoms!

We all need to govern ourselves and look at our own riding style and ask ourselves is this good for the longevity of EUC's.  If we don't someone else will.

[Phong Vu]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Inmotion has mentioned that pumping air to the suspension units once a month is all the maintenance that is required. They have a video on how to do it, it’s dead simple.

Should I be worried about this?  

From all my air suspensions in my mountain bike and scooters, I never need to pump more air to it, just need to keep it clean, make sure there is no oil leak, and send to service if it broke...

Either the Inmotion suspension is constantly losing air, or I'm maintaining the air suspensions all wrong

[Unventor]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

But the bigger issue is that (at least in my country) an EUC can’t be registered as a moped without changing the actual vehicle class requirements. Good luck with that happening, like, ever.

That is correct for cars and MC. But for moped class 1 or class 2(eu 45) it is different matter and the reason why @Henrik Olsen reported something rotten in Denmark last early summer as they changed law to constructed not limited to a speed. Technical that makes most modern EUC illegal but in Sweden there is a loophole once they enforce this. The loophole is to apply fappl-moped class 2 (45kmh top co instructed limit). 

But raising this to 56kmh makes it outside tolerance of measure speeds. Also as it is right now I can ride safely at 30kmh on cycle lanes (I would only break a few laws) but going 45-55 kmh is deffenatly a no go. So it forces one out between cars where they dislike slow vehicles. 

It is all about trade offs and how people behave in traffic. EUC riding aggressive in car traffic will very fast bring the wraith of the police upon us EUC riders. 

[Unventor]

17 minutes ago, Phong Vu said:

Should I be worried about this?  

From all my air suspensions in my mountain bike and scooters, I never need to pump more air to it, just need to keep it clean, make sure there is no oil leak, and send to service if it broke...

Either the Inmotion suspension is constantly losing air, or I'm maintaining the air suspensions all wrong

You should check oil in the car once in a while too.

My Mazda cx-5 (all 3 model years I had) never needed any oil at all.

My Honda civic (2 models years) needed about 1l oil a year. 

To check and top up is more like a precaution similar to check tire pressure too.

[Unventor]

5 hours ago, Nic said:

18 hours ago, Unventor said:

But technically black isn't a colour, it is a contrast.

 

Quote

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black

Black is the darkest color, the result of the absence or complete absorption of visible light. It is an achromatic color, a color without hue, like white and gray.

 

 

I am not engaged into a derail bait. 

Let's keep this thread on topic.

[Unventor]

16 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I HAVE seen an electric bicycle go up in flames. I honestly think that even the fire dept would have a hard time stopping the burn.

Once lithium battery has reached a certain temperature it is close to impossible to put out the fire. It can be contained but it will be close to an explosive burn that is selffueling for a short while. Meaning it need close to nothing oxygen in the air. That is why passengers airlines don't like these onboard their planes. 

Luckily it is rare we hear reports of battery fires on the community. As long cells are if good quality the risk of heat build up is less. But build by cheap recycled unclean raw material increases heat build up in the chemistry.

I am not a 21700 cell expert, but I understand the LG cell "upgrade" should be a benefit in general. I would love to hear what triggered this choice of cells by Inmotion. I mean what real world value does it hold for end users.

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, buell47 said:

 

Was about to write the same thing when I read that BS.   Thanks!

Sorry @Unventorbut that's really big nonsense. 

When they measure a speed they have a few % tolerance added to accommodate any measured speeds. The longer you are away from this the higher risk you have at not getting away with it. 

If you ever see programs on tv with traffic cops how they work you see how they let people go when it is a borderline offence.  Where the more offences and bigger they get they are less likely to let this slip.

You call it what you like. I will still argue the more wheels that are above 50kmh the more risk it is we get the police focus upon us. 

I rather be able to ride in outskirts at 30-35 kmh than getting a ban because people push their limits partly for trolls partly to show off how pro they are. 

And this is something I still have to see any good point to swing my opinion.

There is one thing. The requirement of a EUC above 25kmh riders licence. If that were in place then I am all in for it. Because that means that someone riding bad in traffic can loose their rights.