INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Charles McLean]

2 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

Inmotion are keen to differentiate themselves from their competitor.

Going from 1420 Wh to 1500 Wh is the equivalent adding what, 4 x extra 21700 batteries?  So, now they have 84 cells instead of 80?  I'm confused.

[AtlasP]

8 minutes ago, Charles McLean said:

Going from 1420 Wh to 1500 Wh is the equivalent adding what, 4 x extra 21700 batteries?  So, now they have 84 cells instead of 80?  I'm confused.

They're not adding any extra cells, they just changed to better, more expensive cells with a bit more energy density. This is the same as how many of the manufacturers sell multiple SKUs of the same wheel with different battery sizes, sometimes with the same number of cells just different quality cells and therefore differing total capacities.

Edited April 21, 2020 by AtlasP

[Charles McLean]

2 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

They're not adding any extra cells, they just changed to better, more expensive cells with a bit more energy density. This is the same as how many of the manufacturers sell multiple SKUs of the same wheel with different battery sizes, sometimes with the same number of cells just different quality cells and therefore differing total capacities.

Ah hah ... got it.  Makes sense.  Thanks!

[DjPanJan]

If V11 can drain to 3V is nice KS16x challenger because batery is +- same now 

[AtlasP]

It's fascinating to witness a community scrambling to rationalize their outdated brand associations/loyalties. When the V11 was first announced, the two biggest talking points were skepticism over suspension on an EUC and the "small" battery. Then the S18 was announced also with suspension and *30% less* battery (now 35%), but with an 'edgy' feaux/poser sports bike aesthetic (complete with panels that pop off when it crashes, see Kuji's video). And now watch the mental gymnastics of those contradicting their previous complaints to advocate for the wheel which also has suspension and *35% less* battery, just because of their opinion of how it looks.

FWIW, I think the V11 is still in the top 3 best-looking EUCs of all time, along with the Z10 and the S18--and it's also the thinnest of the three which I find a very positive aesthetic and handling trait.

Edited April 22, 2020 by AtlasP

[AtlasP]

I think it's important to think about how things fit into the broader picture.

Where the V11 really shines is the 84v-speeds, ~1600Wh-range category. Basically the V11 is a direct and very strong competitor to the 84v 1600Wh Nikola, KS16X, and KS18XL--some of the most popular enthusiast wheels of the past several years. You trade only 100Wh (maybe ~4 mi range) and a few more pounds weight (really the V11 weighs about the same as the 100v Nikola) for a potentially-superior, suspended ride. I think that's a sweet spot a lot of serious riders are going to be interested in.

Conversely the S18 with its feature-set but tiny battery is arguably a completely different/completely new category.

Edited April 21, 2020 by AtlasP

[Dave Wood]

15 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

It's fascinating to witness a community scrambling to rationalize their irrational/outdated brand associations/loyalties. When the V11 was first announced, the two biggest talking points were skepticism over suspension on an EUC and the "small" battery. Then the (terribly-named) S18 was announced also with suspension and 30% *less* battery (now 35%), but with an 'edgy' feaux/poser sports bike aesthetic (complete with panels that pop off when it crashes, see Kuji's video). And now watch the mental gymnastics of those contradicting their previous complaints to advocate for the model which also has suspension and 35% less battery just because of their perception of how it looks.

 

Exactly.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Dave Wood

[.....]

26 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

It's fascinating to witness a community scrambling to rationalize their irrational/outdated brand associations/loyalties. When the V11 was first announced, the two biggest talking points were skepticism over suspension on an EUC and the "small" battery. Then the (terribly-named) S18 was announced also with suspension and 30% *less* battery (now 35%), but with an 'edgy' feaux/poser sports bike aesthetic (complete with panels that pop off when it crashes, see Kuji's video). And now watch the mental gymnastics of those contradicting their previous complaints to advocate for the model which also has suspension and 35% less battery just because of their perception of how it looks.

FWIW, I think the V11 is still in the top 3 best-looking EUCs of all time, along with the Z10 and the S18--and it's also the thinnest of the three which I find a very positive aesthetic and handling trait.

To be fair, at least we have seen the sks18 crash, and Kuji stated repeatedly that it was a test model. Panels that come of, vs panels that break in place. I dont know the plan, but its not fair to be so critical, as it seemed to pop right back on and he rode off anyhow.  'feaux/poser huh?   To be fair, how it looks is also an indication of how it works. By looks, i can assume a bulldozer won't win the grand prix. Can't we all simply agree that we don't know shit, and by claiming superiority, we are merely reinforcing that we are definitely being biased? Less batteries = less weight. Let's not pretend that weight is not also a compromise.  I'm waiting for BOTH inno and KS to cross the line of sensibility and start making bullshit claims so the specs on paper seem superior. Until we ride these things, its safe to assume its ALL bullshit.   I find it odd that the inno crowd is MUCH more adamant about claiming the KS wheel is shit, whereas the ks bias crowd seems to be a little less adamant. We all know that Black is the fastest color too.

Edited April 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Unventor]

Well looks isn't everything but it doesn't hurt to look like it means business with a hit of boozing of build quality. 

The shape might look odd at first but still I think it will grow on you once we see it live. 

Moving to better spec battery is yet another sign inputs are taken onboard by Inmotion.

I might stand alone on the view to keep the top speed at the announced 50kmh. It would also leave room for Inmotion to release a V11f once the suspension has proven itself with customers. 

I am looking forward to the next stage of release, the reviews everyone is waiting for. Good job so far @Liamfind.

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

We all know that Black is the fastest color too.

Well the presale of S18 from the dealer I bought my KS16X is set up as rubber black. 

As you said right now looks matters less until we know how it rides. 

But technically black isn't a colour, it is a contrast. But that is a minor detail in the bigger picture. 😉

I would like to have a metallic red wheel. I am not fond of black styling. So red pearl metalis with titanium metallic frames. 😁

Edited April 21, 2020 by Unventor

[UniVehje]

25 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

I think it's important to think about how things fit into the broader picture.

Where the V11 really shines is the 84v-speeds, ~1600Wh-range category. Basically the V11 is a direct and very strong competitor to the 84v 1600Wh Nikola, KS16X, and KS18XL--some of the most popular enthusiast wheels of the past several years. You trade only 100Wh (maybe ~4 mi range) and a few more pounds weight (really the V11 weighs about the same as the 100v Nikola) for a superior, suspended ride. I think that's a sweet spot a lot of serious riders are going to be interested in.

Conversely the S18 with its feature-set but tiny battery is arguably a completely different/completely new category.

None of those contenders are really even 1600Wh, they’re all 1554Wh. (V11 might also be really 1480Wh??) So the difference is no that big anymore. All they need to do is to let the cells drain until 3V and that disappointingly tiny battery beats all “1600Wh” Gotways in range and probably equals 16X (which does 3.15V) and leaves only the 18XL as longer range. (Although I’m still a bit disappointed as I was hoping for a 1800Wh version)

 I think the debate of V11 vs S18 is naturally understandable but also somewhat wrong. They are different wheels for different purposes. One should first decide what the need is and then the decision is easy. S18 is more of a sport bike and V11 is a touring bike for commuting. Of course both can be great for anything but the point is that they are not direct competitors despite of the suspension. And BTW, both will have much better suspension than anything we had before. Let’s not lose the focus while trying to force one of them as superior. 
 

S18 and V11

Edited April 21, 2020 by UniVehje

[.....]

13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Well the presale of S18 from the dealer I bought my KS16X is set up as rubber black. 

As you said right now looks matters less until we know how it rides. 

But technically black isn't a colour, it is a contrast. But that is a minor detail in the bigger picture. 

Awesome, I cant wait to see your rides and hear your opinion on both wheels.

Technically, KS and Inno don't have paint or coatings that are purely 'black'. How about the color of 'dark grey'? Too funny, I never thought about it until you said something... black isnt a color. I better watch myself as I'll be torn apart for not remembering that tidbit!  Im on the fence about color for my sks18. White is not a coating, black is that rubber coating. White wouldnt show dust, black wouldnt show blood. If i still cant decide, I think I'll just let Jason send wtfe he wants. I assume that you won't want to put stickers on the rubber black, but you could on the white. Such decisions, man its great to be a spoiled ass human in today's world..

@UniVehje Great comparison. Only one problem... both of those bikes take water into their chassis and don't melt like sugar. Seems the popular opinion around here is that the sks18 cant possibly work as it could get water in it. Maybe a picture of a sugar cube would be better? Of the three, can you guess which one cant handle water?

                                                                

Edited April 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[redfoxdude]

16 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 Less batteries = less weight. Let's not pretend that weight is not also a compromise... Until we ride these things, its safe to assume its ALL bullshit.

Yeah, for real! I know we are all really excited and antsy, but without real hands-on experience, we can't go much beyond pure speculation. As for the lower weight, this is actually something that is very interesting to me. Of course I would like more range, who wouldn't!? But the lighter weight of the S18 is very intriguing to me. Easier up and down stairs, which I unfortunately have to do every day, and maybe easier jumps...? The ability to leverage the suspension for jumping on these new wheels looks like it could be a ton of fun!

6 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I might stand alone on the view to keep the top speed at the announced 50kmh.

I am with you on this. I don't want them to rush for a new spec. Much more important to me is the throttling. How far can I go before I get throttled below 45km/h, that is what I really care about. I don't often go faster than that, and if the range is reasonable at 45km/h, I think I could certainly settle for the compromise of a smaller battery.

[jonm42]

The hell with stickers. I want to put on some of these: https://www.lightmodehelmets.com/neutron-s-kit/evo

[FreeRide]

1 hour ago, Charles McLean said:

Going from 1420 Wh to 1500 Wh is the equivalent ....

It's called Creative Accounting in other cases, neither will be achieved, but then one generally just compares the number to other inaccurate numbers, so the question is just weather the creativity is above or below average.

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, redfoxdude said:

I am with you on this. I don't want them to rush for a new spec. Much more important to me is the throttling. How far can I go before I get throttled below 45km/h, that is what I really care about. I don't often go faster than that, and if the range is reasonable at 45km/h, I think I could certainly settle for the compromise of a smaller battery.

Thank you. It seems the GW fanboys jumped the Inmotion channel again today to push for 35mph. But your post is exactly what I tried to state yet they seem only to troll. It would be way too easy to end up in a new KS16X top-speed situation by changing key spec to late in development.

[Phong Vu]

  

36 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Then the S18 was announced also with suspension and *30% less* battery (now 35%), but with an 'edgy' feaux/poser sports bike aesthetic (complete with panels that pop off when it crashes, see Kuji's video). And now watch the mental gymnastics of those contradicting their previous complaints to advocate for the wheel which also has suspension and *35% less* battery, just because of their opinion of how it looks.

To be fair, S18 got bashed quite bad on other topic with potentially battery design failure.
Recently, people go crazy about the KingSong wheel because they saw a lot more real footage.

Inmotion keep delaying the demo, just pump out specs will not gonna help much.

I think there is a poll on reddit where people vote on which they gonna pre-order.

It's like 50% S18 - 20% V11.

[someguy152]

39 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Can't we all simply agree that we don't know shit, and by claiming superiority, we are merely reinforcing that we are definitely being biased? Less batteries = less weight. Let's not pretend that weight is not also a compromise.  I'm waiting for BOTH inno and KS to cross the line of sensibility and start making bullshit claims so the specs on paper seem superior. Until we ride these things, its safe to assume its ALL bullshit

amen, it is interesting how these speculation threads are super popular. i guess that's part of human nature and explains gambling, stock markets, etc.

then after the wheel comes out, on to the next unknown

[Rehab1]

4 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

Inmotion are keen to differentiate themselves from their competitor.

Beat this Inmotion! 

 

[.....]

@Rehab1 You forgot to add the seat with integrated batteries and the ball hitch to pull a wagon full of them as well. You young Jedi are quickly becoming the euc photo edit king. When are they going to start selling us fire extinguishers with each purchase? Its quite amazing how quickly the entire world is forgetting that these batteries are in fact VERY dangerous. Just as anything else: We overlook the dangers as it would put a damper on our wants.. I for one aint going to mention to my insurance agent that I have a bomb just waiting to go off, in the shape of a smartie...

Edited April 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Unventor]

16 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Beat this Inmotion! 

 

You didn't see the 3' caravan upgrade for the V11. Filled with battery cells and a beer can refrigerator .

It also solves my concern about top speed as you can ride as fast with a caravan on tow. Inmotion is making it slimmer. 

 

[Rehab1]

6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

When are they going to start selling us fire extinguishers with each purchase? Its quite amazing how quickly the entire world is forgetting that these batteries are in fact VERY dangerous.

After I saw Kuji’s amazing modular stands with suspended fire extinguisher balls protecting his wheels I ordered 6 of them myself. 
 

 

[Dave Wood]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

To be fair, at least we have seen the sks18 crash, and Kuji stated repeatedly that it was a test model. Panels that come of, vs panels that break in place. I dont know the plan, but its not fair to be so critical, as it seemed to pop right back on and he rode off anyhow.  'feaux/poser huh?   To be fair, how it looks is also an indication of how it works. By looks, i can assume a bulldozer won't win the grand prix. Can't we all simply agree that we don't know shit, and by claiming superiority, we are merely reinforcing that we are definitely being biased? Less batteries = less weight. Let's not pretend that weight is not also a compromise.  I'm waiting for BOTH inno and KS to cross the line of sensibility and start making bullshit claims so the specs on paper seem superior. Until we ride these things, its safe to assume its ALL bullshit.   I find it odd that the inno crowd is MUCH more adamant about claiming the KS wheel is shit, whereas the ks bias crowd seems to be a little less adamant. We all know that Black is the fastest color too.

not really true though is it... look back on this very thread for your evidence of KS fanboys dismissing this wheel off as shit, which probably why the op brought it up!

[.....]

22 minutes ago, Dave Wood said:

not really true though is it... look back on this very thread for your evidence of KS fanboys dismissing this wheel off as shit, which probably why the op brought it up!

oh i see it happening on both sides, but surely YOU can see the imbalance? Ive read quite a few of your posts on the sk18 side, showcasing your bias. Im sure ive done it too. Not nearly as much negativity on the v11 thread as we see on the sks18 side.  Ironic would be to find out that BOTH wheels are total shit and we are all wrong... To be honest, I watched the v11 release and was not excited. I was leaning towards buying a heavy wheel with range instead. THEN the sks18 came out and piqued my interest. Im trying to not bash on the v11, tho it just didnt ring my bell. I'll slink my ass away from the v11 and the sks18 threads soon, as the bullshit is getting so deep and i keep adding to it.

@Rehab1 I'd have to see those balls in action, before I bought any. I HAVE seen an electric bicycle go up in flames. I honestly think that even the fire dept would have a hard time stopping the burn.

Edited April 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Rehab1]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

@Rehab1 I'd have to see those balls in action, before I bought any. I HAVE seen an electric bicycle go up in flames. I honestly think that even the fire dept would have a hard time stopping the burn.

If you ship me a wheel I’ll gladly donate one of my balls for a  extinguishing experiment.