INMOTION V11 (2020)

[davinche]

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

And every single video shows very harsh suspension action with maybe two inches of total travel.

What do you mean by harsh suspension? Isn't it supposed to work like a MTB suspension? If so, I think it looks... fine? (not a mtb expert). The sag, compression, rebound should all be adjustable right?

But anyways, I had high hopes, but was also kind of let down...I was going to trade (sell) my Nikola for an MSP,  but then suspension wheels came into play. Now my hopes is for a Monster Mini with suspension

[mrelwood]

33 minutes ago, davinche said:

What do you mean by harsh suspension? Isn't it supposed to work like a MTB suspension? If so, I think it looks... fine? (not a mtb expert). The sag, compression, rebound should all be adjustable right?

Not directly. There are two adjustments, sensitivity knob and an “on-off” lever, and the exact function of the latter is not clear to me. In addition the shock’s air pressure can be adjusted with a pump to suit riders of different weight. Anything further than that requires a different shock. The V11 has said to have the exact same adjustments.

 By “harsh” I mean that the rider’s feet and legs are shaking almost in a way I’d imagine them shaking if riding with a wheel with no suspension at all. The video of the V11 going down the tall curb convinced me, since the rider’s feet transition very smoothly from the higher plane to the lower one. They don’t shake, there are no rapid changes of trajectory. Even the small speed bump makes the 18S airborne, and the rider’s feet shake quite a bit from both the liftoff and the landing. The wheel even seems to continue riding at a different height than before the bump. It just looks like a much more jarring ride than what we’ve seen from the V11 so far.

 But, they are both still prototypes, and without direct comparisons there are too many assumptions. In a month it could seem to be the other way around.

33 minutes ago, davinche said:

Now my hopes is for a Monster Mini with suspension

I admit, if GW was even rumored coming out with an 18x3.0” wheel with suspension this year, I would probably put my V11 plans on hold. But 20”... man, that’s just too lazy for me.

[davinche]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Not directly. There are two adjustments, sensitivity knob and an “on-off” lever, and the exact function of the latter is not clear to me. In addition the shock’s air pressure can be adjusted with a pump to suit riders of different weight.

I think that's just how these suspensions work. The pump to adjust the sag, the blue lever to adjust how much damping on compression, the red knob for how much damping on rebound. Basically the sensitivity / "hardness" of compressing and rebounding.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

4 hours ago, Rywokast said:

i thought the 16x was the ugliest euc ive ever seen lol

The first places in the category "ugliest EUCs" are already occupied by Gotway.

[FullTilt]

Visual differences being apparent, opinion depending on the eyes of the beholder, I'm more surprised by the lack of chatter about the chatter. Not a creak!

Granted the S18 is sporting a prototype shell (with a piece that easily flew off in Kuji's latest video), the ...what would you call it... creaks and chattering could take away from the experience if not remedied. Very curious to see how the V11 sounds ridden hard. I wonder if this will be a common issue with suspension wheels. 

[Rywokast]

32 minutes ago, buell47 said:

The first places in the category "ugliest EUCs" are already occupied by Gotway.

overall yes by a good deal.. but the ACM2, tesla, nikola and monster i really like the look of.. everything else theyve ever made i think is ugly lol.. still the 16x is my least favourite looking euc to come out in the last three years 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Rywokast

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, FullTilt said:

Visual differences being apparent, opinion depending on the eyes of the beholder, I'm more surprised by the lack of chatter about the chatter. Not a creak!

Granted the S18 is sporting a prototype shell (with a piece that easily flew off in Kuji's latest video), the ...what would you call it... creaks and chattering could take away from the experience if not remedied. Very curious to see how the V11 sounds ridden hard. I wonder if this will be a common issue with suspension wheels. 

I think anything with moving parts is going to have some noise. In offroad conditions i think noise is just a thing on any wheel.. probably a little more so with suspension wheels.. 

The noise wasn't all too bad in the video.. I do expect the v11 to be a little quieter due to the suspension being enclosed.. But i doubt either of these wheels will be as quiet as non-suspension wheels.. 

The other thing, since both of these are adjustable.. i assume you can probably adjust these to near off for a bit quieter experience when not offroad.

All that being said.. i think from the limited footage of both the v11 and s18, its safe to say both models suspensions work.. I dont know where either sides "fans" have the ability to say either one looks better or worse than the other by the limited footage.. They both look to work just fine to me for a $2000 one wheeled vehicle with some shock absorption.

If you want a perfect suspension you will prob need to buy a different vehicle all together.. lets keep in mind these are both the first of their kind.. Dont buy if you are looking for perfect implementation..  

[Charles McLean]

One thing that caught my ear in Kuji's video is the fact that he said the main difference between the V11 suspension and the S18 is that in the S18, the battery, shell and rider are all suspended which leaves the wheel/motor free to bounce up and down underneath all that weight, whereas with the V11 it is the rider that is suspended, but the motor, battery and frame all bounce up and down underneath the rider.  I'm not sure which is better and I'm weighing the pros and cons in my head.

[Chriull]

9 minutes ago, Charles McLean said:

One thing that caught my ear in Kuji's video is the fact that he said the main difference between the V11 suspension and the S18 is that in the S18, the battery, shell and rider are all suspended which leaves the wheel/motor free to bounce up and down underneath all that weight, whereas with the V11 it is the rider that is suspended, but the motor, battery and frame all bounce up and down underneath the rider.  I'm not sure which is better and I'm weighing the pros and cons in my head.

"Unsprung mass" is the term you are looking for. There are many discussions/articles about the implications for bikes/motorcycles and cars. I don't feel able to predict/assume any implications in regard to EUCs...

Seems to be a point where we'll have to wait and see if and how this affects riding in real life.

[RagingGrandpa]

11 minutes ago, Charles McLean said:

in the S18, the battery, shell and rider are all suspended
V11 it is <only the rider>
I'm not sure which is better and I'm weighing the pros and cons in my head.

Not a huge difference in my opinion- the battery and shell are about 20lb. Every pound matters... but the big effect comes from getting the rider's mass sprung (~200lb), which both models achieve.

S18 advantages from "springing the last 20lb":

• Potentially even better ride smoothness over bumps.
• Sprung chassis can accept larger battery compartments without interfering with the suspension mechanism.

Disadvantages:

• 8 safety-critical wires now need to be flexible.

[George Iliev]

13 minutes ago, Charles McLean said:

One thing that caught my ear in Kuji's video is the fact that he said the main difference between the V11 suspension and the S18 is that in the S18, the battery, shell and rider are all suspended which leaves the wheel/motor free to bounce up and down underneath all that weight, whereas with the V11 it is the rider that is suspended, but the motor, battery and frame all bounce up and down underneath the rider.  I'm not sure which is better and I'm weighing the pros and cons in my head.

There's a term in car manufacturing called "unsprung weight", and reducing it, greatly increases the car's performance both acceleration and stability-wise... I can explain the math I'm thinking about, that shows why KingSong's iteration of the wheel should, in theory, perform better at tracing the terrain, and carrying/acquiring speed more easily, meaning, using less battery, and putting less stress on the motor itself.

[RagingGrandpa]

1 minute ago, George Iliev said:

 carrying/acquiring speed more easily, meaning, using less battery, and putting less stress on the motor itself.

No, that missed the point- the effects you mention come from making the rotating masses lighter.

Like all EUC's, both the S18 and V11 are burdened with a heavy hub motor- their suspensions won't provide any benefits in rotational inertia.

[George Iliev]

1 minute ago, RagingGrandpa said:

No, that missed the point- the effects you mention come from making the rotating masses lighter.

Like all EUC's, both the S18 and V11 are burdened with a heavy hub motor- their suspensions won't provide any benefits in rotational inertia.

I'm a bit rusty on my mechanical physics, but, as you stated, rotating mass has the hugest impact on those matters, but unsprung mass has an affect also, IIRC. Theory behind it being, that the "sprunged" mass is travelling on a "cushion" and thus not always pressuring the lower moving part of the mechanism. This reduces the stress of the said unsprung mechanism, making it easier for it to react moving up/down (because it's lighter) and thus tracing the terrain better, which, in turn, improves both traction and transference of both speed and breaking... 

I don't actually recall the formulas or the exact way percentages were calculated, but in my defense, it's been 12 years since the last time I was involved in such calculations or lessons 

[RetroThruster]

I think it's sort of like suspension seatposts on bicycles, they won't perform as well as bikes with suspension but do make for a smoother ride on the posterior, I think the S18 with less unsprung mass with behave better in rougher and less grip situations than the V11 will.

[Heyzeus]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Yet people get their giggles about the latter. What’s going on here?!

"Ooh it looks like a ducati/sport bike"

Thats what.

Put the engine / drive train of a Suzuki samurai in the body of a Porsche Cayenne and sell it for the same price as a Toyota fj cruiser and watch more people by the Porsche

[Nic]

Maybe the V11 will be better at keeping the rider in contact with the pedals and it may also be less likely to bottom out the suspension on larger hits. We will see soon enough.

[Phong Vu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass

Good read, follow the topic, seems like S18 has better suspension implementation (in theory) than V11?

-----------

Finally smartwheels.ca has pre-order for V11, $50 CAD more than S18.
So price is not a problem for V11 now, just which wheel is better  

Edited April 15, 2020 by Phong Vu

[RockyTop]

Unsprung mass is not all bad. It brakes down to percentages. If the rider is 180 pounds and the wheel is 60 pounds with 40- 45 ponds unsprung, bringing us to about  25% unsprung weight.  That is not too bad.  In my case closer to 20% 

[Unventor]

This V11 vs S18 is just really odd to me. The amount of emotion and opinions that is more concept than showroom models is so far out of my understanding. 

It seems to focus much more on negatives/downside/cons than possibilities/positives/new options. And this goes to both models.

I really didn't plan to buy a new wheel this year. At least not first batch.But but but when I got my V10f I also said at work I only by a new wheel if it had suspension and if reasonable weatherproofed. 

The last part I am not really sure about. Goes for both models. I really this after suspension the next big thing to develop is water proof so you could rinse off a wheel with a water hose after after dirt or muddy off road ride or salty/dirty winter conditions ride. 

So either way despite interesting they are not perfect. I am sure most here will have more than one wheel.

I have had or have 2 KS wheels. I have had 2 IM wheels still have 1 of them. I do think that my V10f have grown so much on me that it flavoured my choice to actually buy a wheel anyway this year. So I booked a V11. It looks great imo. I also see more think I like to have in it than KS have done on their solution. 

But also like @mrelwood said a few times not. It seems Inmotion have listen much more to customers and tried to meet as many wishes they can. It is a tuff crowd to please here. 

So did I pick the right model? Who knows..really at this point? I don't know for sure. But when I thought about it, it can to me does it really matter? Nope not at all.

Why? Because the pick I did does something no other wheel I had before. It has suspension and the lights are better (expect to be from what we know now) and they focused on it can be ridden normally in traffic. It is properly not a dragster nor steamroller. But it if likely to take me to the job and back home in a more comfortable manner than my other wheels can do.

So the days where I need a light wheel for a short trip, I have my V10F for that. Going out on adventures in the forestaybe the V11 but also have the KS16X as plan B.

Each wheel serve a purpose to me. Because none of them is perfect spot on to my needs.

I will just mention this at the end. What about GW then? I really don't care about them at all. The main reason I don't ride for speed trills, especially not in public traffic. They might be safe, at least in the operation window I would ride them. 

But I just can't see them performing to the needs I have. For others GW might just be the right thing. But not for me.

So I am not waiting to maybe get my V11 late this summer, could be later too. But I am really looking forward to getting the V11. 

I am just glad I don't have a wife moaning about why I buy new wheels. Right @Rehab1? .

I do have some other news to release next week. I will hint as much that it is things we have not seen before.

I will toss 2 hints, one for each: @The Fat Unicyclistand @Seba

This past 2-3 months have been very expensive. But what can I do? EUC it is a lifestyle. And I love it.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

I am just glad I don't have a wife moaning about why I buy new wheels. Right @Rehab1? .

My wife doesn’t moan.... she throws stuff!

I did change my order from the V11 to the S18. Jason was extremely professional as always. 

[jimjam.nyc]

30 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My wife doesn’t moan.... she throws stuff!

I did change my order from the V11 to the S18. Jason was extremely professional as always. 

It's funny. The first question I asked when I pre ordered.. was if I change my mind will it be a problem... And as you just said... Customer service was extremely accommodating. 

[Unventor]

50 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My wife doesn’t moan.... she throws stuff!

I did change my order from the V11 to the S18. Jason was extremely professional as always. 

I think you will regret this big time. Really I do.

Now @Seba is doing some amazing things. 

But a few things emerged when I ask about plans for accessories.

They replied with: sure we have though about this. We have light bt speakers and EUC Ridewear. (I have a strong gut feeling more is coming, I can't explain why...)

I thought ehh okey??!? And pop there is a watch comming that communicates directly to Inmotion wheels. 

Sure you can do that with other watches too and soon Tizen based once also.

But to me it just shows that Inmotion have a game plan. They have listen to feedback and taken action. 

But they are holding their cards tight to the body. I am pretty sure once we get closer to delivery date we will see what Inmotion are all about. 

No matter what, I do hope you enjoy your wheel.

At least you can move that kiss fender from your KS16X to your next wheel as weather proofing mods.😉

Edited April 15, 2020 by Unventor

[Rehab1]

15 minutes ago, Unventor said:

think you will regret this big time. Really I do.

You mean my wife will divorce me?  

I ride a Susuki Dr 200 with a similar suspension system as the S18. It performs flawlessly. The mechanical linkage looks solid along with the ability to swap out the shocks also caught my attention.

I may be wrong. If the upcoming S18 reviews are stacked with negatives outweighing positives and the V11 is more favorable I could possibly change my order. Hopefully there will be a comparative review by Kuji in the coming weeks. 
 

[RockyTop]

10 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

You mean my wife will divorce me?  

The lady that cut my wife's hair said that she know the girl that bags your wife's grocery's. I think she is her uncles sister-in-law's best friend from college   .... Well! .. Yesterday , my wife was getting her hair cut in the black market underground hair salon and was reading your post while trying to catch me saying something bad about her . ... because that is what men supposedly do.    aaaand the hair dresser read your post about buying a new wheel over her shoulder  ..... I just wanted you to know that it wasn't my wife's fault. .................Sorry Man!  

[Rehab1]

13 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

The lady that cut my wife's hair said that she know the girl that bags your wife's grocery's. I think she is her uncles sister-in-law's best friend from college   .... Well! .. Yesterday , my wife was getting her hair cut in the black market underground hair salon and was reading your post while trying to catch me saying something bad about her . ... because that is what men supposedly do.    aaaand the hair dresser read your post about buying a new wheel over her shoulder  ..... I just wanted you to know that it wasn't my wife's fault. .................Sorry Man!  

 
The bag lady shared a photo of your wife’s hair cut after her stylist was distracted reading my post.