King Song S18 Discussion

[Phong Vu]

Hi @Jack King Song,
 

1. Do we have any more information about the trolley handle and pickup handle?
2. Do you know (approximately) when will Kuji release his review?
3. Do you know when the test wheels will be sent to others reviewers (beside Kuji)? 

Thanks,

[edwin_rm]

What a badass wheel!

Take my money!

[gon2fast]

Can we see the trolley handle and motor stop sensor in action? 

[FlyboyEUC]

The trolley handle (to me) looks like the Gotway MSX but directly over the axle. I imagine it has the same lift sensor as all KS models. That is my guess, I've seen a pic of the trolley handle extended somewhere on this forum or Facebook. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[AtlasP]

Having seen the wiring inside most EUCs compared to any 'real' vehicle, I guess I simply don't have the confidence that some of you do there--I guess we'll see.

As for sprung vs unsprung weight on suspensions, I have some images in my head of how I think things may apply differently to EUCs--due to a combination of our weird weight ratio between rider and wheel, and how the rider stands on the pedals unconnected to the wheel/without anything to hold on--but I will have to do more thinking before I can articulate them, and it may all be moot to discuss anyway until we have a chance to ride both wheels side by side--again, I guess we'll see (eventually).

[Electric Dreams]

11 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Still curious of definitive answer to charging specs and number of ports.... Fwiw, Jack was offered a 'locked' thread for himself. He declined but perhaps NOW he is seeing that an open thread has the benefit of keeping interest and being derailed at same time and a locked thread would be a faster resource with different benefits.

The wheel was one charge port, rated for a max of 5amps. Stock charger is 2.5amps. 

 

[Stillhart]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Having seen the wiring inside most EUCs compared to any 'real' vehicle, I guess I simply don't have the confidence that some of you do there--I guess we'll see.

As for sprung vs unsprung weight on suspensions, I have some images in my head of how I think things may apply differently to EUCs--due to a combination of our weird weight ratio between rider and wheel, and how the rider stands on the pedals unconnected to the wheel/without anything to hold on--but I will have to do more thinking before I can articulate them, and it may all be moot to discuss anyway until we have a chance to ride both wheels side by side--again, I guess we'll see (eventually).

It's clear from the videos that they take a very opposite approach, one keeping only the rider sprung and one keeping only the wheel sprung.  My instinct is that they're trying to achieve different things and therefore will feel very different from each other.  Guess we'll see eventually...

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Stillhart said:

My instinct is that they're trying to achieve different things and therefore will feel very different from each other. 

No doubt. Also the other has two direct vertical shocks, the other a single link arm shock. I have no idea how much of a difference that makes, but it could be it’s not small.

Edited April 11, 2020 by mrelwood

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:27 PM, buell47 said:

From the specs it looks like it's the same motor as the 16X?

But if it is already at the performance limit above 40-45km/h, how would it be with an 18" wheel and even smaller battery? 😢

 

On 4/8/2020 at 7:38 PM, mrelwood said:

45km/h on a 16" has the same amount of full tire revolutions per minute than 55 km/h on an 18". Since the lower speed torque on the 16X hasn't been a problem, at 45-50km/h the S18 should do much better than the 16X.

I am very interested in the S18, but back to the motor and the battery again. That just leaves me no peace. We all know the 16X and what happens if we overdo it a little bit above 40 km/h.

It looks like it's the same motor, but we definitely won't get the same torque with the 18" tire and the 3p-battery on top of that.

The only thing that could possibly improve to the 16X is the cut-out problem above 40km/h, as described by @mrelwood. 

So we get a cool wheel with suspension and more safety at top speed, but we lose torque, range and premature reduction of speed because of a too small battery. 

Do I see that right?

What does the small battery say when the motor with the 18" tire is called upon during acceleration or when climbing uphill? Can the battery provide the required power? 

[Espen R]

16 minutes ago, buell47 said:

What does the small battery say when the motor with the 18" tire is called upon during acceleration or when climbing uphill? Can the battery provide the required power?

The answer is no. The S18 with the current setup is a dangerous wheel, and I hope they reconsider before they release it. With a 2200W motor, anything below 1800wh would’ve been a potential issue.

The MSP delivers range closer to a KS18L than the MSX and 18XL, so with a motor between 2200-2500W, a 1400-1800wh battery pack on an 18” wheel delivers the same performance to spec as the 18L, which wasn’t a very successful wheel. 1100wh is just a dick move that demonstrates a total lack of even the most basic understanding of high preforming EUC’s.   

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

That's actually how I see it, but then I ask myself how an EUC manufacturer can put something like this on the market.

The 16XS with 777wh battery was already a big shocker. 

[Skecys]

Hey @Jack King Song;

Is there a reason Kingsong does not want to go over 50 km/h? Some regulation somewhere? If you would make your top speed 55 or 60 I think you would own 2/3's of the market. A top speed of around 65 and Gotway would go broke. Everybody knows there is danger involved riding at those speeds but why not let the rider make that decision? Personally I'm not a speed demon but I do enjoy riding on the street when the bike lane is in bad shape or missing altogether. Traffic is usually limited to 50 km/h in cities so being able to go this speed comfortably (eg. not beeping and scaring everyone ) from time to time is useful and almost a "safety feature" (cars not trying to pass you) to many I think.

People that can afford and stock all manner of wheels can get one to suit every need. I would prefer one perfect wheel 

[Espen R]

21 minutes ago, buell47 said:

That's actually how I see it, but then I ask myself how an EUC manufacturer can put something like this on the market.

The 16XS with 777wh battery was already a big shocker. 

That is a question that only could be answered with words that would cause a ban from this forum.

The first manufacturer that comes to this forum and asks what we want in a new wheel, will have me fanboying them for life. There are people here (I’m not one of them) that have an actual knowledge of the technical aspects of an EUC, that would give advice or even help them in the design process for free, but no one of them have understood the value of this community, which is absolutely mindboggling. There are probably more than 50 people here with enough skills to design shells with easy access service panels without a million screws and larger battery compartments in CAD, that would gladly help them if they asked.

The deafness and blindness toward their customers that the manufactures demonstrates, is starting to kill the joy of EUC’s for me.

[B08AH]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Also the other has two direct vertical shocks, the other a single link arm shock.

It is a reliability difference, everyone is suddenly so concerned about. One point of failure vs two. And probably harder maintenance and tuning.

Should not produce the difference in riding experience though

[Afeez Kay]

KS-s18 in Red? Automobile paint job with darkened rim? @Marty Backe

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I would prefer a engine swap instead a color swap between those both. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by buell47

[Electric Dreams]

3 hours ago, Skecys said:

Hey @Jack King Song;

Is there a reason Kingsong does not want to go over 50 km/h? Some regulation somewhere? If you would make your top speed 55 or 60 I think you would own 2/3's of the market. A top speed of around 65 and Gotway would go broke. Everybody knows there is danger involved riding at those speeds but why not let the rider make that decision? Personally I'm not a speed demon but I do enjoy riding on the street when the bike lane is in bad shape or missing altogether. Traffic is usually limited to 50 km/h in cities so being able to go this speed comfortably (eg. not beeping and scaring everyone ) from time to time is useful and almost a "safety feature" (cars not trying to pass you) to many I think.

People that can afford and stock all manner of wheels can get one to suit every need. I would prefer one perfect wheel 

Answer is always safety. I've raised the desire of the community of wanting to go beyond 50+ but heres the thing. However how many total riders can actually even keep a constant 50? Answer is not many, we'd rather focus on improving safety and overall experience aka introduction of suspension than to increase top speed. That's not our market at least not currently.

And sure it's easy to say "let the riders take responsibility for their own actions" but as a company that produces PEV's we still feel an obligation for our consumers safety. Cars are limited in speed for the same reason and those have four wheels. 

If you want to talk about safety in terms of using speed to get out of tricky situations then really its just about torque. 

 

Hope this answer helps.

Jack

[Eucenduro]

4 hours ago, buell47 said:

 

I am very interested in the S18, but back to the motor and the battery again. That just leaves me no peace. We all know the 16X and what happens if we overdo it a little bit above 40 km/h.

It looks like it's the same motor, but we definitely won't get the same torque with the 18" tire and the 3p-battery on top of that.

The only thing that could possibly improve to the 16X is the cut-out problem above 40km/h, as described by @mrelwood. 

So we get a cool wheel with suspension and more safety at top speed, but we lose torque, range and premature reduction of speed because of a too small battery. 

Do I see that right?

What does the small battery say when the motor with the 18" tire is called upon during acceleration or when climbing uphill? Can the battery provide the required power? 

This the problem of these wheel! 3p battery and 2.500w????

I dont understand this, s18 have an amazing and agresive look. But the battery is a shame. For my ride style i degradate this battery very very soon.

I think that ks put a limit software for limit the motor. So this wheel Will be a great wheel for beginners. Something between v10f (4p battery and 2000w motor) and V8. We can call It v9 😂😂😂

This wheel isn't a off Road or agresive euc. Only look like a tiger but is a small cat. A Ferrari whith a Vespa motor. Good choice for summer beach road rides. 😎

[meepmeepmayer]

Guys, please don't be too harsh, be benevolent, and do not read more into answers than they directly say

[Electric Dreams]

35 minutes ago, Espen R said:

So, cut outs above 40kph on the 16X and the potential of even worse cut out problems with the 1100wh S18 isn’t regarded as a safety issue for you???

 

I‘m not sure what you’re trying to say. Cut out is always an issue it doesn’t matter what speed it’s at. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jack King Song

[Espen R]

13 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

I‘m not sure what you’re trying to say. Cut out is always an issue it doesn’t matter what speed it’s at. 

My point was, since you are concerned about safety, then you shouldn’t make wheels that have no warning cut outs at speeds well below your limited 50kph with more than 50% left of the battery capacity, or make wheels that can’t perform safely for more than the first 10-20 mins after a full charge. If you really cared about safety, you’d make wheels with 4p battery packs that are safe to ride down to 30%.

[Electric Dreams]

1 minute ago, Espen R said:

My point was, since you are concerned about safety, then you shouldn’t make wheels that have no warning cut outs at speeds well below your limited 50kph with more than 50% left of the battery capacity, or make wheels that can’t perform safely for more than the first 10-20 mins after a full charge. If you really cared about safety, you’d make wheels with 4p battery packs that are safe to ride down to 30%.

 

I’m not an engineer, I’m simply helping with PR. I’ll direct your concern to the engineer in regards to 4p. Our wheels do have alarm systems that you can set on the app, if you’ve set it (try setting it at a low speed to see if it works first). If you have a faulty wheel it’s more effective to tell the dealer you’ve acquired it from rather than speaking with me. 
 

 

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

KS-s18 in Red? Automobile paint job with darkened rim? @Marty Backe

Yeah, I'm partial to red. Looks like it would be easy to paint.

[Espen R]

11 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

I’m not an engineer, I’m simply helping with PR. I’ll direct your concern to the engineer in regards to 4p. Our wheels do have alarm systems that you can set on the app, if you’ve set it (try setting it at a low speed to see if it works first). If you have a faulty wheel it’s more effective to tell the dealer you’ve acquired it from rather than speaking with me. 
 

 

I know you are a PR guy, but when you say things like “The answer is always safety” and everybody who owns a 16X will tell you it is a dangerous wheel above 40kph, and the new S18 has specs that will make it another dangerous wheel from Kingsong, then you need to hear it, because it isn’t a truthful statement.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Espen R

[Electric Dreams]

5 minutes ago, Espen R said:

I know you are a PR guy, but when you say things like “The answer is always safety” and everybody who owns a 16X will tell you it is a dangerous wheel above 40kph, and the new S18 has specs that will make it another dangerous wheel from Kingsong, then you need to here it, because it isn’t a truthful statement.

 

In fact I haven't heard it, this is the first time. Have a good day. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jack King Song