KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[scotchtape]

Probably, still want to see that hill and overheat test though!

[Circuitmage]

On 5/10/2019 at 1:47 PM, Mike Paolini said:

@Unventor

I use motor cycle jeans with D3o Knees and hips, motor cycle boots, and a Motor Cycle jacks with the back, shoulder, elbows myself (and D30 wrist guards).  The only place we aren't aligning is the helmet, I use a Down Hill MIPS which I feel provides better hearing than the Motor Cycle helmets.   I'm the one in Grey - and it's like 40 degrees so I'm bundled up.  No idea how the other guys are not freezing.

 

On 5/11/2019 at 6:13 AM, fryman said:

So that’s what nerds in Texas look like. 🤓 

Hey, I know where that corner is.

 

[Heyzeus]

I'm curious what the internals of this wheel will look like and whether king song makes any revisions to it's design before production as a result.of the 16s fire.

 

Being rather happy with my ACM2 I might not upgrade till the generation after this one if there isn't any appreciable difference in safety and security over the current gen, but then again it likely won't be worse and shiny new things are always fun

[Unventor]

So @Jason McNeil can you share a little bit more about how KS is getting on with the KS16X, as in are they still on track or expecting a delay in launch schedule?

And of course anything else you can share 😄

[Jason McNeil]

15 hours ago, Unventor said:

So @Jason McNeil can you share a little bit more about how KS is getting on with the KS16X, as in are they still on track or expecting a delay in launch schedule?

And of course anything else you can share

There is a development update to report; they will be using a new 2200W motor, using a different PWM waveform, to try to match the silent & instant responsiveness of the Gotway controller. Tina says this is not expected to delay the production, currently still on target for next month, however, the demo Wheel is delayed until month's end now. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[stephen]

So the demo unit used by kuji rolls was that the new 2200 motor? Looking forward to marty getting this ,

Thanks jason👍

[eddiemoy]

56 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

There is a development update to report; they will be using a new 2200W motor, using a different PWM waveform, to try to match the silent & instant responsiveness of the Gotway controller. Tina says this is not expected to delay the production, currently still on target for next month, however, the demo Wheel is delayed until month's end now. 

With expedited shipping when can we get our wheel?  Excited to get this one. I have a feeling it will be my favorite wheel.  Any word on whether it will come with a seat?

[meepmeepmayer]

Why does this release after the summer, not now?

2200W sounds niiiiiice!

[Jon Stern]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

There is a development update to report; they will be using a new 2200W motor, using a different PWM waveform, to try to match the silent & instant responsiveness of the Gotway controller. Tina says this is not expected to delay the production, currently still on target for next month, however, the demo Wheel is delayed until month's end now. 

In my world, a component change like that would require a new engineering build with full reliability testing and validation, pushing out mass production by months.

The fact there is no impact to the production schedule suggests that King Song doesn't follow these industry-standard quality processes.

What level of validation will King Song be conducting to ensure they ship a reliable product?

 

[Michael Tucker]

Silent King Song...OMG!!!!!! I wasn't even interested in this wheel, now they have my full attention. I bought from the first batch of KS18L's, then I bought from a fourth batch KS18XL's. Definite difference in quality of headlight, tire, trolly assembly, pedals, motor feel and sound, and of course firmware. Same quality problems when I bought first batch on Z10. Definitely won't be buying first batch again, but boy am I tempted with this thing!

Edited May 18, 2019 by Michael Tucker

[eddiemoy]

21 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

In my world, a component change like that would require a new engineering build with full reliability testing and validation, pushing out mass production by months.

The fact there is no impact to the production schedule suggests that King Song doesn't follow these industry-standard quality processes.

What level of validation will King Song be conducting to ensure they ship a reliable product?

 

You are aware that the jump from 67v to 84v already got them from 1500w to 1880W just with voltage change.  I don’t think it requires all that much to push another 200W

im hoping they are making the magnets more powerful or wider to create more torque on the low end.  

[Jon Stern]

58 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

You are aware that the jump from 67v to 84v already got them from 1500w to 1880W just with voltage change.  I don’t think it requires all that much to push another 200W

im hoping they are making the magnets more powerful or wider to create more torque on the low end.  

It's not necessarily about the increase in power. It's about validating specific components and firmware. Any change (even to a lower power motor) should be validated before shipping product to customers.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Jon Stern

[tessa25]

I was already planning on getting a 16X after the first batch. Between potentially moving to using a switch for lift instead of a sensor (I thought I read somewhere they were going to do this), and now silent operation, every single box is checked for me. Can't wait!

[stephen]

6 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

every single box is checked for me. Can't wait!

It's ticked all my boxes too 😊😊

[meepmeepmayer]

This is the kind of extra iteration the Nikola could have needed! I just hope the 16X gets a good mudguard (only thing I find missing).

1 hour ago, Jon Stern said:

In my world, a component change like that would require a new engineering build with full reliability testing and validation, pushing out mass production by months.

The fact there is no impact to the production schedule suggests that King Song doesn't follow these industry-standard quality processes.

What level of validation will King Song be conducting to ensure they ship a reliable product?

It's a very simple standard electric motor, not a nuclear submarine. What would they even specifically test? They're going to do their usual tests (aka put some Chinese guy on it and if nothing happens, that was the test).

It's like switching to thicker gauge wiring, no need to test if your electronics still work then if you just add a better simple component somewhere.

You can literally exchange a 1500W motor and 2000W motor between some Gotway wheels, for example, and nothing bad happens.

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

You are aware that the jump from 67v to 84v already got them from 1500w to 1880W just with voltage change.

I don't think that's how it works If they claimed the same motor has a higher nominal power with higher voltage... not sure if that makes sense or is just BS.

9 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

Between potentially moving to using a switch for lift instead of a sensor (I thought I read somewhere they were going to do this)

The new 16S version with the lift sensor has a little switch that the handle hits if you pull on it. Simple and looks very reliable. They would be stupid not to put this on the 16X.

[eddiemoy]

46 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This is the kind of extra iteration the Nikola could have needed! I just hope the 16X gets a good mudguard (only thing I find missing).

It's a very simple standard electric motor, not a nuclear submarine. What would they even specifically test? They're going to do their usual tests (aka put some Chinese guy on it and if nothing happens, that was the test).

It's like switching to thicker gauge wiring, no need to test if your electronics still work then if you just add a better simple component somewhere.

You can literally exchange a 1500W motor and 2000W motor between some Gotway wheels, for example, and nothing bad happens.

I don't think that's how it works If they claimed the same motor has a higher nominal power with higher voltage... not sure if that makes sense or is just BS.

The new 16S version with the lift sensor has a little switch that the handle hits if you pull on it. Simple and looks very reliable. They would be stupid not to put this on the 16X.

power = amps x volts.  if you keep the amps the same, size of wire for the windings, if you want more power, it has to be done using higher voltage.  if you don't plan to go to 100v, then only way to do it is more powerful permanent magnets or thicker wires to handle more amps.  

I dont' think KS did anything to the 18S motor to use it for the 18L.  I could be wrong, but that motor just went from 1500w to 2000w and voltage took care of most of it from 67v to 84v.

 

[Unventor]

5 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

In my world, a component change like that would require a new engineering build with full reliability testing and validation, pushing out mass production by months.

The fact there is no impact to the production schedule suggests that King Song doesn't follow these industry-standard quality processes.

What level of validation will King Song be conducting to ensure they ship a reliable product?

 

Or they have tested this for some time already and gave it a thumbs up. 

[Unventor]

So I guess we are a few standing in line to part our money to get our hands on a KS16X. 

I only hope it comes with a seat... 😉

[Mike Paolini]

@Jason McNeil

Well I'm excited about the the attempt for extra instant responsiveness and work toward tuning the noise. As an Admitted Gotway Fan boy, these are things from Gotway I don't easily want to give up.   Hopefully that instant response target is at a standing start rather than for already rolling at say 10 mph...

With respect to the added 200W of motor power, that's also interesting as a heavier rider in a hilly part of the world.   I'm a little curious how they did it, and how close it comes to and extra 200W in reality vs being say a sleight of hand of marketing marketing department as we've seen in the past with some specs from various vendors.  I suppose it might also be reasonable to link the extra 200W's of motor with the increased top end that was reported earlier given more power is required to push to that higher end [safely]? 

Also for what it is worth, I'm in no hurry and I'd rather see them swing for the bleachers and hit a home run out of the gate, even if it means production delays, then get it sooner.  In my mind one of the worst things they could do, is ship one version to early buys and then iterate and improve on it rapidly and screw all the early buyers.  At a $2,000 price point, that move builds the opposite of brand loyalty. 

[Hatchet]

Well that settles it; barring any disaster the 16x now has no negatives for me. Silent motor, more responsive (like my MSX) and (?) more powerful motor in a 16x3 wheel, cut off switch.. I-I have something in my eye..

No! It cannot be ..the one! Something must be wrong somewhere..any mudflap? I knew it! No mudflap! This wheel sucks! I kn-.. what's that? It has a mudflap? 

You win this round Kingsong.

[Unventor]

It was reported early on it will have rubber shaped mudflap Z10 style. Just not as long. 

It should be able to flex without breaking wheel in case of a tumble or bail out.

@US69 confirmed earlier. 

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

@US69 confirmed earlier. 

Where is @US69 lately??? I hope he is just taking a break from the Forum's and nothing untoward has happened!

Edited May 19, 2019 by fbhb

[Unventor]

49 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Where is @US69 lately??? I hope he is just taking a break from the Forum's and nothing untoward has happened!

He said something about being burned out earlier. 🤯

Then he was here a few weeks and now a major break or time since he has been last time, last I checked at least. 🙄

But yes I can only hope that he is OK 🤔

[Olav]

I'm thinking that KS increased the W to stay within their safety margin and still be able to meet Jasons request for a 50kph/31mph wheel. As I recall correctly, they were reluctant/hesitant to do 50kph/31mph when they announced the wheel.

This will bring a few over from buying Nikola over 16X, I think.

[Vanzen]

I hope someone tell them that if its an "officially" 50kmh wheel, they wont sell one single unit in France due to insurance policies and new laws coming

Edited May 19, 2019 by Vanzen