Unventor Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 @eddiemoy in short one of the argument for choosing KS18XL over KS18L is that due to bigger battery pack made by more cells the strain on each cell is lower. This leads to less trottling needs for safety. I see no reason the same should not apply to a KS16X. That is also one reason by I would buy the giggest battery version. The other is that I at first would like a light wheel, but I found a heavier wheel is more controllable in windy conditions. So weight today I would lean towards a wheel of 20kg+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Unventor said: @eddiemoy in short one of the argument for choosing KS18XL over KS18L is that due to bigger battery pack made by more cells the strain on each cell is lower. This leads to less trottling needs for safety. I see no reason the same should not apply to a KS16X. That is also one reason by I would buy the giggest battery version. The other is that I at first would like a light wheel, but I found a heavier wheel is more controllable in windy conditions. So weight today I would lean towards a wheel of 20kg+ You forget something more important, how far each rotation can go, 17” vs 19”. For each volt, there is a certain number of rotation. It’s the same motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, eddiemoy said: You forget something more important, how far each rotation can go, 17” vs 19”. For each volt, there is a certain number of rotation. It’s the same motor. Well good point, yet I set my KS18L to these speeds so I think KS16X will do fine for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 "Warping speed" - I assume that means tiltback speed? Gotta love these translations. But it's not even a Chinese thing this time, inexplicably incompetent translations are everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Warping speed" - I assume that means tiltback speed? That’s what I was thinking too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 10 hours ago, eddiemoy said: assuming a 10.5rpm/V and circumference of 17" wheel and a cut off voltage of 3 volts, 31mph is marginal. would approach cut off right at 3 volts. I'm sure KS would start throttling sooner, maybe at 50% at 3.6v which can do 38mph. 8 hours ago, eddiemoy said: It’s a matter of safety. If the margins are not there, KS will not allow 31mph. Will see, fingers crossed! When I run the numbers they look fine. I believe the zero is at 3.3 volts so that is about 33mph. Under current draw, will drop significantly. But that is where the throttling comes in, probably at 3.7v or something like that. Im sure they are testing. They don’t want to lose the business. Hy Eddie..i have no clue where you have These Maths from…. 10.5rpm/V ??? How do you get to These numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, US69 said: Hy Eddie..i have no clue where you have These Maths from…. 10.5rpm/V ??? How do you get to These numbers? I got it from a stock motor hub motor from grin technologies. Can you find out what the rpm/V is for the new KS motor? then i would have a exact number of miles it can travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, eddiemoy said: I got it from a stock motor hub motor from grin technologies. Can you find out what the rpm/V is for the new KS motor? then i would have a exact number of miles it can travel. Does it really matter? I am riding it and spec of that matters not at all while I enjoy my ride and where the wheel takes me To me those are paper numbers...as soon yiu go up or down hill or in nature we have something call wind.... Again practical ride sensation do not come from paper numbers. Or am I wrong here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, eddiemoy said: I got it from a stock motor hub motor from grin technologies. Can you find out what the rpm/V is for the new KS motor? then i would have a exact number of miles it can travel. So from that you done your calculations? I can try to get numbers...but doubt that i will get any to this Point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Unventor said: Does it really matter? I am riding it and spec of that matters not at all while I enjoy my ride and where the wheel takes me To me those are paper numbers...as soon yiu go up or down hill or in nature we have something call wind.... Again practical ride sensation do not come from paper numbers. Or am I wrong here? For you it doesn't since you are riding well below the limits. But for those who are pushing the limits to tiltback it is nice to know what the limits are for the wheel. At least to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, US69 said: So from that you done your calculations? I can try to get numbers...but doubt that i will get any to this Point.... Yes, you would be surprised how similar they all are. I don't think the number would be off by that much. It is a characteristic of every hub motor. Would love to know what the number is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: 17 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: Yes, you would be surprised how similar they all are. I don't think the number would be off by that much. It is a characteristic of every hub motor. Would love to know what the number is. Really??? I cant imagine they are all so similar…. That would mean also the GW Nikola - or each and every 84Volt 16 Inch Wheel - would not be able todo 50kmh... That would also mean each and every 84Volt Wheel with same Inch Size has the same Speed....and that on 84V no Progress anymore is possible (and we seen a lot i guess) That would also mean each and every 36Volt E-Skateboard with same Wheel size would have the same Speed. Tell that Enertion Raptor :-) Thats just not the case, or??? But i can say that KS will test if 50kmh is doable or not, and allow that only if that is no danger to the customer! Edited March 28, 2019 by US69 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, US69 said: Really??? I cant imagine they are all so similar…. That would mean also the GW Nikola - or each and every 84Volt 16 Inch Wheel - would not be able todo 50kmh... That would also mean each and every 84Volt Wheel with same Inch Size has the same Speed....and that on 84V no Progress anymore is possible (and we seen a lot i guess) That would also mean each and every 36Volt E-Skateboard with same Wheel size would have the same Speed. Tell that Enertion Raptor :-) Thats just not the case, or??? But i can say that KS will test if 50kmh is doable or not, and allow that only if that is no danger to the customer! The eskates have lot higher rpm/V. With my calculation, based on 10.5rpm/V, 17” can do 44 mph on full charge. Goes down to 35 mph when cells are down to 3.3V. If if you look at the eskate diy sites, they have the motors. And the rpm/V. It is another number. I forget what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: The eskates have lot higher rpm/V. With my calculation, based on 10.5rpm/V, 17” can do 44 mph on full charge. Goes down to 35 mph when cells are down to 3.3V. If if you look at the eskate diy sites, they have the motors. And the rpm/V. It is another number. I forget what it is. Yes, sure...e-skates are other motors as EUC...that was not my Point. But even the Imagination that the Motor "Overall e-skate" are the same rpm/v...would mean each 36Volt e-skate with 90mm wheels runs same Speed :-) That all doesn't work together…. Best example: The first KS18A 67 Volt was only able to run 30kmh...the latest KS18A(called S), still 67Volt, is able to run 50kmh easy! With your Theorie, that would not have been possible...as they have same 18inch Diameter and same voltage, so both motors should have same rpm/V... And that is just not the case... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, US69 said: Yes, sure...e-skates are other motors as EUC...that was not my Point. But even the Imagination that the Motor "Overall e-skate" are the same rpm/v...would mean each 36Volt e-skate with 90mm wheels runs same Speed :-) That all doesn't work together…. Best example: The first KS18A 67 Volt was only able to run 30kmh...the latest KS18A(called S), still 67Volt, is able to run 50kmh easy! With your Theorie, that would not have been possible...as they have same 18inch Diameter and same voltage, so both motors should have same rpm/V... And that is just not the case... eskate are rated KV, some common ones are 190KV, which is just 190 rpm/V. You can calculate the 36v*190rpm/v*size of the wheel, will get you how fast they can push. for this example at full battery theoretical max speed is 72mph with no load. I think your example with the 18A is that KS limited the speed in the beginning. The motor is the same. You can limit the speed by software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) On 3/28/2019 at 6:03 PM, eddiemoy said: I think your example with the 18A is that KS limited the speed in the beginning. The motor is the same. You can limit the speed by software. No Eddie, that is just not the case. Cutout Speed's -means what the motors been capable of - have been developed from 38kmh to over 70kmh in the last years for the 67V 18inch Kingsongs…. The Thing is that These have been different motors, First 500W, then 800W, 1200W and now 1500Watt....different amount of Copper and magnet strength and what not. And that goes for other companys in EUC, too! Early Gotway Msupers V2 18 Inch have even had different Motor types sold for different Speeds... There is just Progress in how fast motors (and Self Balancers Firmware) can go. That's why i dont believe in that you can calculate that from the same rpm/V from a bicycle Motor. But we dont have to agree on everything, or? Edited March 29, 2019 by US69 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) Has the main mechanism for progress in motor strength been mainly tighter copper windings and better magnets (other than the changes from 67 to 84v) Are these motors near the limits of what power can be extracted from them in their current...form factor...I guess. @eddiemoy @US69 to continue increasing motor strength would one have to switch to something like neodymium magnets(If that would even work) or a different way of winding the copper. Edited March 29, 2019 by Heyzeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 AFAIK one can build much smaller (and lighter) electric motors with larger power output. The problem is that we want to stick to certain RPM, because RPM directly defines our speed. My hunch is that one can build easily much stronger (and heavier) EUC motors but not much lighter ones without sacrificing power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 hours ago, US69 said: No Eddie, that is just not the case. Cutout Speed's -means what the motors been capable of - have been developed from 38kmh to over 70kmh in the last years for the 67V 18inch Kingsongs…. The Thing is that These have been different motors, First 500W, then 800W, 1200W and now 1500Watt....different amount of Copper and magnet strength and what not. And that goes for other companys in EUC, too! Early Gotway Msupers V2 18 Inch have even had different Motor types sold for different Speeds... There is just Progress in how fast motors (and Self Balancers Firmware) can go. That's why i dont believe in that you can calculate that from the same rpm/V from a bicycle Motor. But we dont have to agree on everything, or? my calculations for the Nikola works out almost perfectly with the very same number I've been using. if you ask KS, they know what their number is. it is like power output. it is just a motor spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Heyzeus said: Has the main mechanism for progress in motor strength been mainly tighter copper windings and better magnets (other than the changes from 67 to 84v) Are these motors near the limits of what power can be extracted from them in their current...form factor...I guess. @eddiemoy @US69 to continue increasing motor strength would one have to switch to something like neodymium magnets(If that would even work) or a different way of winding the copper. I believe they are already using neodymium magnets. To increase torque you feel, all you need to do is design a motor with the turning force closer to the outer edge. instead they are using the same motor on the 16" and 18" and larger by just by putting in spokes. probably a little more to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: I believe they are already using neodymium magnets. To increase torque you feel, all you need to do is design a motor with the turning force closer to the outer edge. instead they are using the same motor on the 16" and 18" and larger by just by putting in spokes. probably a little more to this. it would be great if they would actually make a better 18" by doing just that, that way they wouldnt feel so sluggish in comparison to a 16 or 14.. would obviously be a price hike though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Just now, Rywokast said: it would be great if they would actually make a better 18" by doing just that, that way they wouldnt feel so sluggish in comparison to a 16 or 14.. would obviously be a price hike though yeh, someone needs to pay for the new motor design. only thing is all things being kept equal, the larger wheel would be slower top speed. unless they increase the motor rpm/V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, eddiemoy said: yeh, someone needs to pay for the new motor design. only thing is all things being kept equal, the larger wheel would be slower top speed. unless they increase the motor rpm/V that would require actual effort.. so i doubt it haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 So this Friday I had an incident that lead to a dislocated shoulder. I had a neopren cover on my wheel, that saved the wheel from any major damage and scratches. @Jason McNeil and @US69 can can you ask or even better push to get a Kingsong cover for KS16X? By having a brand cover it should be able to make it cheaper. Now the good part now in my view, is the summer launch means my shoulder should have recovered by then 😄. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Unventor said: So this Friday I had an incident that lead to a dislocated shoulder. I had a neopren cover on my wheel, that saved the wheel from any major damage and scratches. @Jason McNeil and @US69 can can you ask or even better push to get a Kingsong cover for KS16X? By having a brand cover it should be able to make it cheaper. Now the good part now in my view, is the summer launch means my shoulder should have recovered by then 😄. A cover would be great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.