KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[fryman]

15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Sure looks nice to me - I'd buy one

I would still prefer a design that did not require a mud flap.  That would require casting two different side panels ( a left and right side) instead of one.

[Marty Backe]

26 minutes ago, fryman said:

I would still prefer a design that did not require a mud flap.  That would require casting two different side panels ( a left and right side) instead of one.

There's something particularly masculine about the wheels that expose a lot of the tire. They've always attracted me, and seem to get the most buzz from the community.

But I certainly get the appeal of wheels that don't require a separate mudguard, from purely practical standpoint.

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Sure looks nice to me - I'd buy one 

Me too

[Heyzeus]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Thanks @tinawong for providing the 3D mock-up of the CF finish. I quite like this when contrasted with the grey side-panel overtones. It's a toss-up between the rubberized matte black finish & this. 

We'll definitely need to get a real-life texture sample to see how it looks in reality.   

That doesn't look bad but that render makes it look like it's a glossy finish.

The ninebot Z10 doesn't have a glossy finish on its carbon fiber finish and I think the matte finish looks a lot better on the carbon fiber than a glossy one would and it stands up to scratches, falls etc better without looking super damaged super fast where as glossy finishes tend to accentuate any scratches or damage.

So if they do go with a glossy carbon fiber finish I also hope they offer just the plain matte black rubberized finish then, since at least for me that gloss is not ideal

Edited March 25, 2019 by Heyzeus

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Sure looks nice to me - I'd buy one 

But we talked about that yesterday...you need 2 atleast. 1 to show, 1 to ride and 1 to rent out to people visiting you EUC live museum.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Thanks @tinawong for providing the 3D mock-up of the CF finish. I quite like this when contrasted with the grey side-panel overtones. It's a toss-up between the rubberized matte black finish & this. 

We'll definitely need to get a real-life texture sample to see how it looks in reality.   

It actually looks perfect to me. Now the blue/greenish light on the lower part, that would be cool.if that could be set to white on the front and red on the rear side. 

I am using my wheel in traffic so any lighting that enhance my visibility is a huge plus to me. 

Did any yet hear anything about how good the breaking is compared to KS18L or Nikola? @Jason McNeil @US69?

[Hatchet]

The image on the ewheels store seems to show they shaved around an inch from the bottom of the shell which is good. In the above picture, the shell follows the wheel rim under the pedals, while the ewheels version is higher (you can see the bottom of the rim).

Something about the look of this wheel floats the hell out of my boat

Edited March 26, 2019 by Hatchet

[Jon Stern]

12 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Thanks @tinawong for providing the 3D mock-up of the CF finish. I quite like this when contrasted with the grey side-panel overtones. It's a toss-up between the rubberized matte black finish & this. 

We'll definitely need to get a real-life texture sample to see how it looks in reality.   

Why can't I see the picture?

[US69]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, Unventor said:

hope @Jason McNeil and @US69 keep us up to date as we get closer to a final version.

Sure we will :-)

 

[US69]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 8:05 PM, LanghamP said:

Personally, since both wheels seem so close performance wise, I'd just choose the one with higher pedal clearance, as twice now I've caught my KS16S's pedal in a turn, crashed, and the wheel ran over my broken and bleeding body. At under 6 mph.

Just saying:

The 16s was "just" an update of the now 3 year old 16c....and i have to agree, even at the time the pedals where a bit low.

the nowadays available wheels like 18L, Nikola and also 16X have a much higher pedal Setup.

This will be no Problem anymore.

[US69]

Ok, latest i have heard is:

The 16X will get a real Motor stop button under the handle. No handle/trolley sensor anymore….

Take that with a grain of salt, as we are still in Pre-production and prototype Phase!

[LanghamP]

23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

There's something particularly masculine about the wheels that expose a lot of the tire.

There's a joke in there somewhere.

I wonder why this equivalent sentence doesn't feel quite right...

There's something particularly masculine about girls that expose a lot of leg.

All joking aside, having lived with wheels that have a lot of tire exposed versus mostly covered, I've come to the conclusion that both have very bad drawbacks, and that a wheel that just barely covers 180 degrees of the wheel is probably best, as you would get the advantages of both form factors.

270 degree wheels are quite dangerous when their rear lip gets caught on a sharp curb but they act as mudguards plus you can use the shell to strap something on without fouling the wheel.

The 170 degree or less wheels need mudguards, cannot easily be picked up by their grabbing each side, but are far less likely to foul.

In my opinion Kingsong seems to understand this, as their 18 and now 16 seem to be very close to 180 degree coverage. 

All these wheels seem to be converging towards the round form factor with 180 degree coverage.

[Unventor]

On 3/26/2019 at 3:26 PM, US69 said:

Ok, latest i have heard is:

The 16X will get a real Motor stop button under the handle. No handle/trolley sensor anymore….

Take that with a grain of salt, as we are still in Pre-production and prototype Phase!

I am getting even more stoked about this wheel... I am so ready to buy it right now...might even have to buy an extra to bring to bed at night so I can hug it in my sleep 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Unventor

[tessa25]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:13 AM, Jason McNeil said:

Thanks @tinawong for providing the 3D mock-up of the CF finish. I quite like this when contrasted with the grey side-panel overtones. It's a toss-up between the rubberized matte black finish & this. 

We'll definitely need to get a real-life texture sample to see how it looks in reality.   

This is the nicest looking wheel I've seen. I love that medium gray on black with the blue light accents. The distance, the climbing ability, the motor cut off switch, the trolley handle, and the fact that it's a 16 inch wheel make this the perfect wheel for me. I will definitely be buying one this summer. I'll have to find some trails to use it on.

[Mike Paolini]

On 3/26/2019 at 9:26 AM, US69 said:

Ok, latest i have heard is:

The 16X will get a real Motor stop button under the handle. No handle/trolley sensor anymore….

Take that with a grain of salt, as we are still in Pre-production and prototype Phase!

YES PLEASE!  Buttons > Sensors imo.

[Circuitmage]

So, a button in the handle sounds better, but that also means wires would presumably need to run into the extension rods, which could be another wiring/contact issue to engineer.
 

Overall, the 16X sounds very interesting so far. And the video I saw of it spinning out on loose dirt and going up steep slopes is impressive.
Although I must say I'm not a fan of the LED placements. Not a huge deal but I really like the current placements.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Circuitmage

[eddiemoy]

On 3/25/2019 at 2:34 AM, mrelwood said:

Kuji mentioned that the 16X feels slightly more powerful than Nikola.

There are no 17” or 19” tires. The Nikola and MSX specs just have the virtual Gotway inch in them.

To be more specific, the bicycle standard numbering used in EUCs tells the outer diameter of the tire, which is somewhat meaningless since the inner diameter is what must match the rim size exactly. Therefore the outer diameter is only an approximate, and all 16” tires fit on a 12” rim no matter if the actual outer diameter was 14” or 17.5”. Wider tires of course have a larger outer diameter.

Let me end by quoting the master EUC distributor of the US, our beloved friend Jason: 

 

 

Lesson to be learned? Never mind the announced specs.

@Jason McNeil, I think your top speed is wrong on the 16X, it is only 28mph or 45kmph.  

[eddiemoy]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:38 AM, fryman said:

I would still prefer a design that did not require a mud flap.  That would require casting two different side panels ( a left and right side) instead of one.

I think it would definitely come with a mudguard.  Removable probably.  

It also seems like with this wheel, KS is no longer doing both front and back headlights.  They are going with single direction.  At least that is what it looks like from Kuji’s video and the mock-up. 

[eddiemoy]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:19 AM, Marty Backe said:

Sure looks nice to me - I'd buy one 

Ditto, this design is starting to grow on me.  Initially I was meh about it.  But I would like to have a lighter non 1554wh version.  I don’t need a 16” to do 70miles of range.  30 is plentylike with the 1038wh in the 18L. I just need a last mile replacement for my 16 I keep in the trunk.  

[Heyzeus]

On 3/23/2019 at 11:50 AM, Jason McNeil said:

Yeah, awaiting for specifics on the exact tire model number for each Wheel. My 16X order was contingent on a 50kph cruising speed (standard 200km unlock business), Linnea confirmed the Nikola is the same. 

Update: the Nikola has the CST 16x3" tire, same as the 16X.  

 

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

@Jason McNeil, I think your top speed is wrong on the 16X, it is only 28mph or 45kmph.  

See the post a few pages back from Jason, so hopefully it really does hit 50

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

 

See the post a few pages back from Jason, so hopefully it really does hit 50

Would be amazing if KS give in to 50km. Knowing them, probably won’t happen.  Not enough safety margins?

[Rywokast]

3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Would be amazing if KS give in to 50km. Knowing them, probably won’t happen.  Not enough safety margins?

it has been mentioned that that was a condition for the 16x which has been met.. at least for ewheels.. it should be just as safe as the 18l/xl.. smaller tire, but wider so probably requiring around the same amount of power

Edited March 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[eddiemoy]

30 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

it has been mentioned that that was a condition for the 16x which has been met.. at least for ewheels.. it should be just as safe as the 18l/xl.. smaller tire, but wider so probably requiring around the same amount of power

assuming a 10.5rpm/V and circumference of 17" wheel and a cut off voltage of 3 volts, 31mph is marginal.  would approach cut off right at 3 volts.  I'm sure KS would start throttling sooner, maybe at 50% at 3.6v which can do 38mph.  

[Unventor]

13 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

assuming a 10.5rpm/V and circumference of 17" wheel and a cut off voltage of 3 volts, 31mph is marginal.  would approach cut off right at 3 volts.  I'm sure KS would start throttling sooner, maybe at 50% at 3.6v which can do 38mph.  

How can you be sure at this stage? 

As for comments from what you see in video, more details has been shared from both @Jason McNeil and @US69

They have collected opinions and to me it seems KS are listning to the feedback given.

Eg. prototype wheel showen in video do not have final lights added yet, shell shape are different as confirmed. Trolley handle is different too, no lift sensor but going for a button cutoff instead.

And as usual things change so until we see a real production unit any spec. can change from a prototype iteration. That is the point of nature of prototype units.

Note: To me it is not important how spec on paper are listed, numbers means nothing. Any marketing departmen can fiddle and trist numbers. What is very important is the final feel and what is delivered in practice.

Compared to this I love the feel of my KS18L ever more every time I ride this wheel. It does what i hoped it would do for me and better. Due to this I hope KS16X can do that too. Time will tell as I get a unit. I am buy one from what I know right now after following this thread.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Unventor

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

How can you be sure at this stage? 

As for comments from what you see in video, more details has been shared from both @Jason McNeil and @US69

They have collected opinions and to me it seems KS are listning to the feedback given.

Eg. prototype wheel showen in video do not have final lights added yet, shell shape are different as confirmed. Trolley handle is different too, no lift sensor but going for a button cutoff instead.

And as usual things change so until we see a real production unit any spec. can change from a prototype iteration. That is the point of nature of prototype units.

Note: To me it is not important how spec on paper are listed, numbers means nothing. Any marketing departmen can fiddle and trist numbers. What is very important is the final feel and what is delivered in practice.

Compared to this I love the feel of my KS18L ever more every time I ride this wheel. It does what i hoped it would do for me and better. Due to this I hope KS16X can do that too. Time will tell as I get a unit. I am buy one from what I know right now after following this thread.

It’s a matter of safety.  If the margins are not there, KS will not allow 31mph. Will see, fingers crossed!  When I run the numbers they look fine.  I believe the zero is at 3.3 volts so that is about 33mph.  Under current draw, will drop significantly.  But that is where the throttling comes in, probably at 3.7v or something like that.  Im sure they are testing.  They don’t want to lose the business.