KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[eucinsea]

Does Darknessbot work with KS16x yet? 

[eddiemoy]

8 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

My 16X arrived today. Wife no like. Me like. Wife take MSX. We ride.

 

Most people will have the same reaction coming from a non-gyro feeling wheel.  I for one absolutely hated it in the beginning.  Only took about 50 miles to totally fall in love with the ride once you get used to it.  Only issue is jumping back and forth between gyro vs non gyro wheels, there is an adjustment.  I would absolutely keep the stock tire if that was my only wheel.  

The hate feeling you get in the beginning is our resistance to change or anything different.  

[stephen]

I remember when the z10 first came out people said the compound was to hard, but it did soften and when i ride any of my wheels they soften once they heat up from riding, they just feel different after a few miles 👍 

[ir_fuel]

7 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

That’s the point for me, i don’t want to ride 200-400 miles to get used to a tire.

After 3 weeks strictly riding the X i hopped on my XL and it was hard to ride it because of the non gyro feel, don’t like that either.

The stock tire just doesn’t fit me and my style of riding, if everybody else likes it good, i don’t.

And if i get a hand on the chaoyang i will try that as well.

I did it in the hope it would resolve the brake wobbles.

Didn't have time to test it as I spent last night riding my new Onewheel

Maybe tonight.

[RoadRunner]

In the 16X tire thread i have seen that @Gaz Bon received his X today with the chaoyang tire on it. 

Strange, i thought the stock tire was so good. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

18 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

In the 16X tire thread i have seen that @Gaz Bon received his X today with the chaoyang tire on it. 

Strange, i thought the stock tire was so good. 

KS said, they will use both in the future. The Dalishen and the CYT. maybe because CYT can´t deliver at any time?

[Mike Sacristan]

4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Most people will have the same reaction coming from a non-gyro feeling wheel.  I for one absolutely hated it in the beginning.  Only took about 50 miles to totally fall in love with the ride once you get used to it.  Only issue is jumping back and forth between gyro vs non gyro wheels, there is an adjustment.  I would absolutely keep the stock tire if that was my only wheel.  

The hate feeling you get in the beginning is our resistance to change or anything different.  

Thank you for this comment.
It will be interesting to ride only the 16X for one week and then go back to the MSX or even worse the Ninebot One E+.
And it will be extra interesting to see what would happen if Monika just tried riding the 16X day after day.
One could say that the 16X requires more skill than the MSX but that can also depend on the fact that when it comes to EUC riding my glass is rather full.
While hers should be empty (as she doesn't have 5000km on the MSX working against her).

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

I remember when the z10 first came out people said the compound was to hard, but it did soften and when i ride any of my wheels they soften once they heat up from riding, they just feel different after a few miles 👍 

 Exactly! I don’t understand why everyone saying it takes them hundreds of miles to adjust. Let’s take two extremes  The Z10 and the 18XL.  Both on opposite ends of what everyone’s talking about. Extreme Gyro feeling on the Z10 and easy turning on the 18XL. Now the 16X is in between.  It literally takes me 30 seconds or 200 feet to adjust from the18XL to the Z10.  It’s still riding a wheel it just turns different. Haven’t you guys ever driven a small car like a Honda Civic and then the same day driving a Ford Expedition?  You are still driving,  the laws of the street still apply and both as far as I’m concerned are enjoyable to drive. That’s just me.  Enjoyed them for what they are. 

[ir_fuel]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Exactly! I don’t understand why everyone saying it takes them hundreds of miles to adjust. Let’s take two extremes  The Z10 and the 18XL.  Both on opposite ends of what everyone’s talking about. Extreme Gyro feeling on the Z10 and easy turning on the 18XL.

While I was waiting for the replacement of the tire on my KS16X I rode around on a KS18XL (my other wheel at home is a Z10). I had zero issues getting used to it.

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

While I was waiting for the replacement of the tire on my KS16X I rode around on a KS18XL (my other wheel at home is a Z10). I had zero issues getting used to it.

 Looks like you and I have the same lineup of wheels.  The three of them are definitely different writing but I don’t think it’s difficult to get used to them. The Z10 is as different as you can get and I think it’s cool. 

[Patton250]

27 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Exactly! I don’t understand why everyone saying it takes them hundreds of miles to adjust. Let’s take two extremes  The Z10 and the 18XL.  Both on opposite ends of what everyone’s talking about. Extreme Gyro feeling on the Z10 and easy turning on the 18XL. Now the 16X is in between.  It literally takes me 30 seconds or 200 feet to adjust from the18XL to the Z10.  It’s still riding a wheel it just turns different. Haven’t you guys ever driven a small car like a Honda Civic and then the same day driving a Ford Expedition?  You are still driving,  the laws of the street still apply and both as far as I’m concerned are enjoyable to drive. That’s just me.  Enjoyed them for what they are. 

 Let me fix something on this. I completely understand why a person that’s going to only own one wheel saying they like the ride of one over the other so that’s the one they choos to own. That makes excellent sense. Using my car analogy if I can only own a civic or an expedition I would on the civic for a daily driver.  If I was forced to choose between the Z10 and 16X I would choose the 16X.  But it’s easy for me to adjust between them very quickly in less than a minute. I’ll see how the Nikola Plus is when I get it Monday.  I was hoping to have it today but customs in California messed us over by a day. 

[Mike Sacristan]

29 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Let me fix something on this. I completely understand why a person that’s going to only own one wheel saying they like the ride of one over the other so that’s the one they choos to own. That makes excellent sense. Using my car analogy if I can only own a civic or an expedition I would on the civic for a daily driver.  If I was forced to choose between the Z10 and 16X I would choose the 16X.  But it’s easy for me to adjust between them very quickly in less than a minute. I’ll see how the Nikola Plus is when I get it Monday.  I was hoping to have it today but customs in California messed us over by a day. 

The Nikola is quite easy to ride and it just fits. Very stable at all speeds. To me it feels like a big wheel while the 16X feels smaller which is why I chose it. If I want the feel of a big wheel I have the MSX.
18XL feels smaller than the MSX but has the similar 18" geometry when it comes to hill climbing while the 16X has better geometry for that (and for my size).

I'm sure all of us understand each other. Some people prefer things to feel more similar and others prefer things to feel wildly different.
Some want to switch wheels and just enjoy the ride and others see it in a different way.
I like to enjoy the ride but I also like to challenge myself constantly. I have plenty of headroom as I am currently not working and have been off work for almost 6 months now.
Now I have somewhere to put my excess energy.

Sorry you have to wait until Monday! It will definitely be worth the wait! Let's see how long it takes before you hit 40mph. 

 

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thank you for this comment.
It will be interesting to ride only the 16X for one week and then go back to the MSX or even worse the Ninebot One E+.
And it will be extra interesting to see what would happen if Monika just tried riding the 16X day after day.
One could say that the 16X requires more skill than the MSX but that can also depend on the fact that when it comes to EUC riding my glass is rather full.
While hers should be empty (as she doesn't have 5000km on the MSX working against her).

I actually think riders who have more miles under their belt can adjust quicker to the gyro feel.  It is more a mental resistance.  The feeling that you don’t like it in the beginning.  This is normal.  If you give it a chance I’m confident it will become your favorite wheel once you are adjusted in a few days.  

I’m enjoying the Nik+ now.  It feels and looks bigger than the 16X, but it feels better than the MSX to me.   Ergonomically it doesn’t have the box feel like the MSX.  I also enjoy the quickness inherent in a smaller diameter wheel.  Quicker to accelerate and decelerate than the MSX, to speed to match the 84v, north of 40mph, plenty for me.  Now I can ride in the street here in NJ with the cars.  Before with the 16X, limited to 31mph, I couldn’t keep up or ride in front of cars without feeling they are pushing me or I’m slowing down traffic.  I understand why many of the folks in NYC has gone to Gotway now.  It the feeling that you can go faster if you need to in traffic.

The 16X w/ gyro tire doesn’t require more skill to ride than the MSX, just different skill.  Smaller diameter wheels tend to be easier to ride, less resistance to roll, turn and quicker to accelerate.  Incidentally, someone reported getting their wheel in Australia with the CYT tire!  Guess these 16X with the CX321 will be rare!

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Looks like you and I have the same lineup of wheels.  The three of them are definitely different writing but I don’t think it’s difficult to get used to them. The Z10 is as different as you can get and I think it’s cool. 

You misunderstood. The KS18XL is not mine. They gave it to me to ride on whilst replacing my tyre. I had never ridden that wheel before in my life.

[Mike Sacristan]

57 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I actually think riders who have more miles under their belt can adjust quicker to the gyro feel.  It is more a mental resistance.  The feeling that you don’t like it in the beginning.  This is normal.  If you give it a chance I’m confident it will become your favorite wheel once you are adjusted in a few days.  

I’m enjoying the Nik+ now.  It feels and looks bigger than the 16X, but it feels better than the MSX to me.   Ergonomically it doesn’t have the box feel like the MSX.  I also enjoy the quickness inherent in a smaller diameter wheel.  Quicker to accelerate and decelerate than the MSX, to speed to match the 84v, north of 40mph, plenty for me.  Now I can ride in the street here in NJ with the cars.  Before with the 16X, limited to 31mph, I couldn’t keep up or ride in front of cars without feeling they are pushing me or I’m slowing down traffic.  I understand why many of the folks in NYC has gone to Gotway now.  It the feeling that you can go faster if you need to in traffic.

The 16X w/ gyro tire doesn’t require more skill to ride than the MSX, just different skill.  Smaller diameter wheels tend to be easier to ride, less resistance to roll, turn and quicker to accelerate.  Incidentally, someone reported getting their wheel in Australia with the CYT tire!  Guess these 16X with the CX321 will be rare!

As I am taking a year off work I don't allow myself to succumb much to mental resistance. I see it as an opportunity for self improvement which is what my sabbatical is about.

I feel the same regarding the Nik+, less boxy but still boxy for my small size. I still prefer the MSX though and if I had to choose between a Nik+ or MSX 100v 1845 I would get the MSX. Except I already have an 84v MSX. So maybe it would be redundant.

Different skill indeed. Half of my movements are too strong and the other half too weak.   It's fun to let the 16X slide around and just follow it though. Dancing wheel.

I am happy I got the stock tire!

Gotway 100V makes a lot more sense than the 84V versions when it comes to riding over 31mph. 40mph though... phew! That's scary.

[Gustesta]

[HarpMudd]

The level of control on the 16X just develops the more you ride. All of a sudden one day most of the wobbles disappeared (except a slight bit when I slow down abruptly). When riding at a slower speed, it responds just like any other wheel, at higher speeds I slightly put my knee out and my foot changes from flat to on the edge.  I feel like this is kind'of like the beginning of a Ducati motorcycle knee drag.  When I first got the wheel I had to force this type of movement, but now it's a pretty natural and very enjoyable part of carving.

[eddiemoy]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

As I am taking a year off work I don't allow myself to succumb much to mental resistance. I see it as an opportunity for self improvement which is what my sabbatical is about.

I feel the same regarding the Nik+, less boxy but still boxy for my small size. I still prefer the MSX though and if I had to choose between a Nik+ or MSX 100v 1845 I would get the MSX. Except I already have an 84v MSX. So maybe it would be redundant.

Different skill indeed. Half of my movements are too strong and the other half too weak.   It's fun to let the 16X slide around and just follow it though. Dancing wheel.

I am happy I got the stock tire!

Gotway 100V makes a lot more sense than the 84V versions when it comes to riding over 31mph. 40mph though... phew! That's scary.

If the wheel is still moving around too much, try lowering the tire pressure more.  I found that it is way too squirrelly for me when the tire pressure is high, I’m riding at 18psi and I weigh 145.  You may need a little bit more if you are heavier, but not much more.  It allows for more contact patch at lower psi and it removes the squirrelly feel of the wheel and it will go where ever you point it, not the other way around. 

As for the technique to overcome the gyro feel, I found that you need to lean more at an angle and put your body outside the wheel.  So in the non gyro wheels all you had to do was lean left and right, it doesn’t work with the gyro wheel.  You need be more conscious at first as to where you apply pressure on the pedals,  more toe or front edge of the pedal pressure.  To do that in a turn, you have to lean diagonally.  Not to the side like you normally do.  But to the front and to the side that you are turning.   You will pick this nuance up pretty quickly.  

Edited August 23, 2019 by eddiemoy

[DragonFZ]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Exactly! I don’t understand why everyone saying it takes them hundreds of miles to adjust. Let’s take two extremes  The Z10 and the 18XL.  Both on opposite ends of what everyone’s talking about. Extreme Gyro feeling on the Z10 and easy turning on the 18XL. Now the 16X is in between.  It literally takes me 30 seconds or 200 feet to adjust from the18XL to the Z10.  It’s still riding a wheel it just turns different. Haven’t you guys ever driven a small car like a Honda Civic and then the same day driving a Ford Expedition?  You are still driving,  the laws of the street still apply and both as far as I’m concerned are enjoyable to drive. That’s just me.  Enjoyed them for what they are. 

It's subjective to age, too... Young kids (dam kids) can pick up a new language or skills much quicker and easier because their brain is not yet completely formed yet. Whereas, the old farts are just grumpy complainers, who really love the way things were, in their head.  LOL 

[Mike Sacristan]

54 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

If the wheel is still moving around too much, try lowering the tire pressure more.  I found that it is way too squirrelly for me when the tire pressure is high, I’m riding at 18psi and I weigh 145.  You may need a little bit more if you are heavier, but not much more.  It allows for more contact patch at lower psi and it removes the squirrelly feel of the wheel and it will go where ever you point it, not the other way around. 

As for the technique to overcome the gyro feel, I found that you need to lean more at an angle and put your body outside the wheel.  So in the non gyro wheels all you had to do was lean left and right, it doesn’t work with the gyro wheel.  You need be more conscious at first as to where you apply pressure on the pedals,  more toe or front edge of the pedal pressure.  To do that in a turn, you have to lean diagonally.  Not to the side like you normally do.  But to the front and to the side that you are turning.   You will pick this nuance up pretty quickly.  

Thanks for the suggestions and recommendations Eddie!
I just checked the tire pressure and it's at 31 PSI. I will leave it there and learn the hard way. Like I said in another thread I like making things more challenging. Just for laughs. 
I will probably eat my words soon enough though.
I keep my weight around 140 lbs so we are quite similar in weight.

So far i'm loving it. Now i'm just waiting for the rain to calm down a bit. Then it's time to cruuuiiiiise!

35 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

It's subjective to age, too... Young kids (dam kids) can pick up a new language or skills much quicker and easier because their brain is not yet completely formed yet. Whereas, the old farts are just grumpy complainers, who really love the way things were, in their head.  LOL 

Hahaha!

Let's put some Windows XP stickers on our electric unicycles!

[Daniel-Son]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks for the suggestions and recommendations Eddie!
I just checked the tire pressure and it's at 31 PSI. I will leave it there and learn the hard way. Like I said in another thread I like making things more challenging. Just for laughs. 
I will probably eat my words soon enough though.
I keep my weight around 140 lbs so we are quite similar in weight.

So far i'm loving it. Now i'm just waiting for the rain to calm down a bit. Then it's time to cruuuiiiiise!

That’s exactly how I found my balance with this wheel. I started with 38 psi and it felt really weird to me, so I when down down to 20 psi and it did feel much better but, a little on the mushy side. Not wanting to ride at a ride low psi, I raised the psi to 43 and made myself to learn! It took around 75 miles before I relearned how to ride it with confidence. Now after 300 miles I completely love this wheel! I’m still at 43 psi. I think this wheel really shines at the 2 - 25 mph. It’s my adventure wheel, ready for any task, near or far, slow or fast! 

[Mike Sacristan]

13 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said:

That’s exactly how I found my balance with this wheel. I started with 38 psi and it felt really weird to me, so I when down down to 20 psi and it did feel much better but, a little on the mushy side. Not wanting to ride at a ride low psi, I raised the psi to 43 and made myself to learn! It took around 75 miles before I relearned how to ride it with confidence. Now after 300 miles I completely love this wheel! I’m still at 43 psi. I think this wheel really shines at the 2 - 25 mph. It’s my adventure wheel, ready for any task, near or far, slow or fast! 

If I want a mushy ride I can ride my MSX at 20 PSI.  And I spent the first 5000km riding it on 30 PSI (thinking it was 20).
Anyway after my 30km ride yesterday I was totally fine with the behaviour of the 16X with 31 PSI. 

[Tom D]

16X arrived Wednesday.  Used rapid charger and put a full charge on it, then updated FW and BT bug fix (although I never use the built in speakers, only ear buds), then performed horizontal calibration.  Tire is the green stripe CX 321 (no other markings expect size designation),  inflated to 29.5 PSI.  I weight about 185lbs fully geared, so I'll leave tire PSI where it's at and adjust from there.  Not able to ride until this Sat, so curious to see how this performs compared to the 14D and 16S.  I am most curious about the tire performance considering the amount of discussion that has taken place.  I rode a Z10 for about couple minutes last year, so not enough to have baseline of comparison.  More to follow.

[Gustesta]

6 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Exactly! I don’t understand why everyone saying it takes them hundreds of miles to adjust. Let’s take two extremes  The Z10 and the 18XL.  Both on opposite ends of what everyone’s talking about. Extreme Gyro feeling on the Z10 and easy turning on the 18XL. Now the 16X is in between.  It literally takes me 30 seconds or 200 feet to adjust from the18XL to the Z10.  It’s still riding a wheel it just turns different. Haven’t you guys ever driven a small car like a Honda Civic and then the same day driving a Ford Expedition?  You are still driving,  the laws of the street still apply and both as far as I’m concerned are enjoyable to drive. That’s just me.  Enjoyed them for what they are. 

I agree.  It took me 2 miles or less to get used.  And now that the tire is brakin in, it feels even better.

[mrelwood]

 

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Let's put some Windows XP stickers on our electric unicycles!

Ha! You’re younger than I thought... I would’ve suggested Win 95!