The Gotway Tesla 1020wh Model Open Box and Initial thoughts

[WARPed1701D]

I've not ridden any other wheel but I find the V8 to be just fine at slow speeds. My commute regularly puts me behind walkers where I have to follow them at walking speed for 10 to 15 seconds. Never an issue. no wobbles or dismounts. And while I'm not doing crazy tricks I do some pretty tight turns and appreciate the high pedals and the zero risk of catching my feet or pedals on the ground. If prices were the same I would probably have chosen the 16S over the V8 but with several reservations. The V8 is a great mix of features. Not the fastest. Certainly not the slowest (my commute max speed is normally 29kph with a 22kph average thanks to pedestrians) . Proven reliable build quality. Not heavy. Good Qol features like the handle kill switch and integrated trolley handle. Attractive and comfortable design. I'd rather the 4P battery setup of the 16S for safety and the extra motor power but not the extra 7lbs or $500 (as was the price difference then) . So far I've no regrets choosing the V8 with a fast charger for longer journeys. I may consider a second battery pack of longer range journeys without a charging break become more frequent.

I do see something like the Z10 or 18S in my future in a year or so but can also still see a use for my V8 when I own one of them due to the portability and practicality.

Gotways are great machines that push the envelope but I need to see a few reliable builds coming from them before I'd consider owning one. Using a glue gun instead of a soldering iron on charging connectors is IMO more unforgivable than melted wires on units that have been excessively loaded by abnormal terrain.

 

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I've not ridden any other wheel but I find the V8 to be just fine at slow speeds. My commute regularly puts me behind walkers where I have to follow them at walking speed for 10 to 15 seconds. Never an issue. no wobbles or dismounts. And while I'm not doing crazy tricks I do some pretty tight turns and appreciate the high pedals and the zero risk of catching my feet or pedals on the ground. If prices were the same I would probably have chosen the 16S over the V8 but with several reservations. The V8 is a great mix of features. Not the fastest. Certainly not the slowest (my commute max speed is normally 29kph with a 22kph average thanks to pedestrians) . Proven reliable build quality. Not heavy. Good Qol features like the handle kill switch and integrated trolley handle. Attractive and comfortable design. I'd rather the 4P battery setup of the 16S for safety and the extra motor power but not the extra 7lbs or $500 (as was the price difference then) . So far I've no regrets choosing the V8 with a fast charger for longer journeys. I may consider a second battery pack of longer range journeys without a charging break become more frequent.

I do see something like the Z10 or 18S in my future in a year or so but can also still see a use for my V8 when I own one of them due to the portability and practicality.

Gotways are great machines that push the envelope but I need to see a few reliable builds coming from them before I'd consider owning one. Using a glue gun instead of a soldering iron on charging connectors is IMO more unforgivable than melted wires on units that have been excessively loaded by abnormal terrain.

 

Gotway might never meet your expectations   I'm sure they lose a lot of similar business. Such is life.

[WARPed1701D]

12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway might never meet your expectations   I'm sure they lose a lot of similar business. Such is life.

I hope you are wrong. They are the Ferraris of the EUC world and I would love to join the club. while I'd never push one to its limits of speed, knowing it is there is part of the thrill. I would probably never melt a motor cable under my normal use but avoidable build quality issues could badly injure even the most tame of riders...or burn your house down!

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, MaxLinux said:

Why don't EUC companies want to put a 2.5" tire on a 16 inch wheel?

That is a question I've asked myself like 200 times already...  It seems they're stuck in the box, without a true capability to think outside it.

30 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I hope you are wrong. They are the Ferraris of the EUC world and I would love to join the club. while I'd never push one to its limits of speed, knowing it is there is part of the thrill. I would probably never melt a motor cable under my normal use but avoidable build quality issues could badly injure even the most tame of riders...or burn your house down!

Or probably not. Burn your house down that is. While there are problems, they're seem not to be that kind of problems. It's not like the no-name wheels or hover-boards that spontaneously catch on fire or just fuck you up without provocation.

The problems seem more to be of the type: "We're cutting corners, since not doing it is bothersome and might cut into the margins..."

So rather than making sure every wheel comes out of the line without issues, they replace those that are bad enough the customer gets pissed off.

Rather than replacing the motors in production with motors with larger shafts and thicker wires. That's basically patch-work to try to hide the basic problem, which seems to be a rather common problem in the business. That some of the ideas they use is worthy of a face-palm doesn't do anything to make it better.

I do have a suspicion though...

I suspect that Gotway gets this bad rep mostly because they're on the bleeding edge, using the same type of parts as every other EUC-maker but loading much more power into them.

I suspect that Kingsong, Inmotion, Solowheel, Ninebot etcetera escapes the bad rep by limiting the power, not by really using better parts.

Sure their QC might be better, and some of them over-engineer to a greater extent. But it will be very interesting to see when the Z10 comes out, if it is built in a way that avoids the problems, or if there will be pissed off customers complaining about thin wires, stupid practices and popping boards on those too?

I don't know, but I feel the whole market needs a big upgrade.

[Marty Backe]

20 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

That is a question I've asked myself like 200 times already...  It seems they're stuck in the box, without a true capability to think outside it.

Or probably not. Burn your house down that is. While there are problems, they're seem not to be that kind of problems. It's not like the no-name wheels or hover-boards that spontaneously catch on fire or just fuck you up without provocation.

The problems seem more to be of the type: "We're cutting corners, since not doing it is bothersome and might cut into the margins..."

So rather than making sure every wheel comes out of the line without issues, they replace those that are bad enough the customer gets pissed off.

Rather than replacing the motors in production with motors with larger shafts and thicker wires. That's basically patch-work to try to hide the basic problem, which seems to be a rather common problem in the business. That some of the ideas they use is worthy of a face-palm doesn't do anything to make it better.

I do have a suspicion though...

I suspect that Gotway gets this bad rep mostly because they're on the bleeding edge, using the same type of parts as every other EUC-maker but loading much more power into them.

I suspect that Kingsong, Inmotion, Solowheel, Ninebot etcetera escapes the bad rep by limiting the power, not by really using better parts.

Sure their QC might be better, and some of them over-engineer to a greater extent. But it will be very interesting to see when the Z10 comes out, if it is built in a way that avoids the problems, or if there will be pissed off customers complaining about thin wires, stupid practices and popping boards on those too?

I don't know, but I feel the whole market needs a big upgrade.

Then again, I've got 4 Gotway wheels and I'm having a blast. Most people are just enjoying their wheels. We hear about the problems but don't hear about all the people out there having a good time. It's human nature. We complain loudly when things don't go right but are silent when everything works.

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't know what you tried, but apparently it wasn't an MSuper V3. The MSuper has an integrated trolley. Rather hard to miss it.

And of course if you try a wheel in the Soft mode then you can't complain about it not being responsive like the V8. Fair is fair.

My mistake. There is an integrated trolley in the V3. I only knew about it being in Soft mode after conversing with the owner post-ride. Will try someone else's V3 ride in hardest setting in future if opportunity arises.

[meepmeepmayer]

I tried a V8 once, only knowing my ACM, and it is more twitchy and harder to balance (because of the narrower stance). Though, with any wheel, you need 5 minutes to get used to it and then you can ride pretty much any wheel more or less equally well (I guess - but of course the differences in wheel characteristics stay).

Stability is mostly a function of weight, I believe (and tire width). My little speed piggy is like glued to the ground with its 19 kg. So I'm expecting the Tesla to be quite stable as well.

Weaving around people is easier with smaller tire diameters. Really narrow weaving, otherwise any wheel can do it, even Monster. It's just the stability when not weaving that differs.

2 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

Why don't EUC companies want to put a 2.5" tire on a 16 inch wheel?

"Why don't EUC companies want to <insert obvious improvement> on their wheels?"

This is the question that drives us all mad here (me at least)

[Scatcat]

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I tried a V8 once, only knowing my ACM, and it is more twitchy and harder to balance (because of the narrower stance). Though, with any wheel, you need 5 minutes to get used to it and then you can ride pretty much any wheel more or less equally well (I guess - but of course the differences in wheel characteristics stay).

Stability is mostly a function of weight, I believe (and tire width). My little speed piggy is like glued to the ground with its 19 kg. So I'm expecting the Tesla to be quite stable as well.

Weaving around people is easier with smaller tire diameters. Really narrow weaving, otherwise any wheel can do it, even Monster. It's just the stability when not weaving that differs.

"Why don't EUC companies want to <insert obvious improvement> on their wheels?"

This is the question that drives us all mad here (me at least)

Yessss, it's enough to drive you to the psycho ward (almost)...

[US69]

1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

I do have a suspicion though...

I suspect that Gotway gets this bad rep mostly because they're on the bleeding edge, using the same type of parts as every other EUC-maker but loading much more power into them.

If you ever compare a KS Motherboard to a Gotway Motherboard (or just take a look inside the wheels)....i would say the Quality difference is immense!

KS uses bigger/more amp capable mosfets, they are not on the side of the heatsink, instead very central, the temperature sensor is in direct near of the mosfets. They actually put some thoughts into their boards...

And it isn't a complete silikon hell :-)

The over all Quality difference is quite easy to see if you own or owned both KS and GW......that's just a fact....

 

52 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Then again, I've got 4 Gotway wheels and I'm having a blast. Most people are just enjoying their wheels. We hear about the problems but don't hear about all the people out there having a good time. It's human nature. We complain loudly when things don't go right but are silent when everything works.

Does having a blast include the wire burning on the ACM, the oscillation issue on the Msuper or the axle nuts probs on the Monster?  Just kidding...

 But you are completly right! i also tend to blend out my very good experiences i had with my Msuper V3! It never let me down, never had a failure, just the beeper had to changed. Other than that, it has worked very good, so no Need to complain...

 

[Bambino]

@KingSong69 maybe one day you want to sell it.... and maybe i buy it

 

 

[HermanTheGerman]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway might never meet your expectations  

This may also be true for me.

My impression is, that Gotway still sees EUCs as toys for a niche market, where there is no need for perfection, safety or robustness, while Kingsong sees them as serious transportation devices and tries to build their wheels thoughtfully with high quality and reliability.

That reminds me on motorcycles 20 years ago, where you could buy a great looking and powerful Moto Guzzi, where you saw the dealers garage 3 times already during the first 1000 kilometers, or a less great looking but identically powerful BMW, which you could ride for 100,000 kilometers not even knowing what a repair shop is.

Maybe at some time in the future also Gotway will discover, that thoughtful wheel and board design might increase reliability and robustness.

[Scatcat]

3 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

If you ever compare a KS Motherboard to a Gotway Motherboard (or just take a look inside the wheels)....i would say the Quality difference is immense!

KS uses bigger/more amp capable mosfets, they are not on the side of the heatsink, instead very central, the temperature sensor is in direct near of the mosfets. They actually put some thoughts into their boards...

And it isn't a complete silikon hell :-)

The over all Quality difference is quite easy to see if you own or owned both KS and GW......that's just a fact....

 

Does having a blast include the wire burning on the ACM, the oscillation issue on the Msuper or the axle nuts probs on the Monster?  Just kidding...

 But you are completly right! i also tend to blend out my very good experiences i had with my Msuper V3! It never let me down, never had a failure, just the beeper had to changed. Other than that, it has worked very good, so no Need to complain...

 

Yeah, there are differences. I don't get why GW hasn't switched to 247 MOS yet, or why they persist with the poor cable gauges while loading more and more power through them.

It's just like the face-palm feeling of Rockwheel not designing for at least IP65.

I really, really hope Segway/Ninebot go the full nine yards with the One Z and make sure it's reliable, cool, safe, strong and watertight.

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Asylsteirer said:

This may also be true for me.

My impression is, that Gotway still sees EUCs as toys for a niche market, where there is no need for perfection, safety or robustness, while Kingsong sees them as serious transportation devices and tries to build their wheels thoughtfully with high quality and reliability.

That reminds me on motorcycles 20 years ago, where you could buy a great looking and powerful Moto Guzzi, where you saw the dealers garage 3 times already during the first 1000 kilometers, or a less great looking but identically powerful BMW, which you could ride for 100,000 kilometers not even knowing what a repair shop is.

Maybe at some time in the future also Gotway will discover, that thoughtful wheel and board design might increase reliability and robustness.

In America we have Harley-Davidson motorcycles. The bikes that they made in their earlier years were very desirable but required a lot of maintenance to keep running. Eventually, in order to survive the marketplace, they changed their design and manufacturing processes to make highly reliable motorcycles. I think of Gotway in the same way. They are in the early days of making highly sought after EUCs, but ones of inferior quality. I'm hopeful that eventually they follow KingSong's lead and build quality EUCs. Time will tell.

[Scatcat]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

In America we have Harley-Davidson motorcycles. The bikes that they made in their earlier years were very desirable but required a lot of maintenance to keep running. Eventually, in order to survive the marketplace, they changed their design and manufacturing processes to make highly reliable motorcycles. I think of Gotway in the same way. They are in the early days of making highly sought after EUCs, but ones of inferior quality. I'm hopeful that eventually they follow KingSong's lead and build quality EUCs. Time will tell.

They probably will, but only when the other mfg's go full hog () and present alternatives that provide both the speed, stamina and form-factor desirability of GW. Some provide one or the other, but it is hard to find something else that combines the sense of grit, power, stability and battery capacity. That some of that is an illusion, given things like melting cables and such is one thing, but in many respects they have no peer yet.

This is of course my own two cents, but I'd prefer the form factor of a MS3 over a KS18 any day, and there is a functionalistic, simplistic beauty in the ACM. I may love my GT16, but I really would like a 18" wheel with a wide tyre and huge battery. And if only the Monster had a bit more torque to compensate for the huge wheel, I would bloody love to have it - and in that area they are totally alone.

That is one reason I look forward to the one Z, it may well force GW to reflect on their mfg- and QC-practices. Obviously KS hasn't been enough to force them to do it, probably because of the speed capping, the voltage conservatism, and the totally different form factor.

[kasenutty]

I would buy this EUC. I like it. I just want to know the wires will not melt. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Scatcat said:

They probably will, but only when the other mfg's go full hog () and present alternatives that provide both the speed, stamina and form-factor desirability of GW. Some provide one or the other, but it is hard to find something else that combines the sense of grit, power, stability and battery capacity. That some of that is an illusion, given things like melting cables and such is one thing, but in many respects they have no peer yet.

This is of course my own two cents, but I'd prefer the form factor of a MS3 over a KS18 any day, and there is a functionalistic, simplistic beauty in the ACM. I may love my GT16, but I really would like a 18" wheel with a wide tyre and huge battery. And if only the Monster had a bit more torque to compensate for the huge wheel, I would bloody love to have it - and in that area they are totally alone.

That is one reason I look forward to the one Z, it may well force GW to reflect on their mfg- and QC-practices. Obviously KS hasn't been enough to force them to do it, probably because of the speed capping, the voltage conservatism, and the totally different form factor.

Totally agree. Gotway will only change if they have competition. For instance, I recommend the KS14S over any offering by Gotway because KingSong kills it in this size. I wish I could say the same about the KS16 and KS18. And where is the KingSong 10 inch wheel, or 22 inch wheel. Crickets.

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, kasenutty said:

I would buy this EUC. I like it. I just want to know the wires will not melt. 

They won't, unless you force it up looooong, steep-ish, uninterupted inclines; then they will (probably, it's not like anyone tested that). Think of it as an ACM with smaller battery and stronger motor/more speed as far as specs are concerned.

[Goodman]

I have 3 wheels msuper v3s, ninebot e+ and the inmotion v8. My friend who I introduced yo get into euc's has the ks16s and the monster. We change wheels with each other all the time so I have had good experiences with sll 5 wheels.

Ninebot really nice wheel my choice for starters can take a hell of a lot in the beating department and very responsive. The v8 another great wheel has alot going for it but the battery is way too small. The ks16s much better wheel than the first 2 it's fast responsive and the range is great definitely a wheel for the conservative rider who want function safety and range. 

But but the gotway's msuper and monster omg I know there has been a lot of terrible issues with gotway. What can I say I just love these heavy dangerous wheels there's just something about them. Speed power range comfort the other 3 can't compare my friend agrees with me 100%.

I think I might try the telsa swap out my v8.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

15 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

"Why don't EUC companies want to <insert obvious improvement> on their wheels?"

This is the question that drives us all mad here (me at least)

I think a lot of it has to do with fundamental beliefs and bottom line numbers.  It appears that some Chinese makers want to maximum profits first and foremost so they don't see the benefits of changing things dramatically and incurring extra costs.  If something is "good enough" why throw money into making it better when you can just tweak it here and there for less cost?  Also considering that the Asian market generally appears to be less picky about quality and place their emphasis on price I can see why things are the way they are.

Also it probably has a lot to do with what engineers they have on staff and their overall budget.  Working from a $20,000 loan doesn't give you a huge R&D department so you throw together what you can, get a cheap shell made, contract out to get a decent control board/motor, and throw that product out to try to get profits going.  Ninebot has the huge cell phone company Xiaomi behind them so you can see they have paid someone well to design a durable and well thought out Lexan shell casing with melt-in brass screw bolt fittings and easily replaceable parts.

Now for companies like Gotway who have a few products under their belts, the cash likely is flowing in better so they may have extra funds to maybe work on more durable shell casings and improve control boards.  I imagine it's not cheap to get a new high quality control board designed, but if it lasts for a few generations of future wheels with fewer issues, it's money well invested.  I wonder why IPS hasn't put anything new out since their I5 as the Xima Lhotz is showing its age a bit like the old Ninebot One.

[MaxLinux]

8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

 I wonder why IPS hasn't put anything new out since their I5 as the Xima Lhotz is showing its age

Yes, IPS seems to shy away from competing in the "power wheel" segment. When introducing their first new model in a few years, IPS decided to offer a type of wheel that currently has very little competition. It potentially created a new segment in the market: the super-compact, super-portable wheel.

[steve454]

Gotway has come a long way in two years, shell design, electronics, wiring.  And they have more choices than any other brand, from 10 inch to 22 inch, along with the biggest batteries you can get.  I would say they are number 1 in the world right now.  Sure some have problems, but they seem to be improving their quality.

[xebeche]

Have you guys seen these photos of Tesla vs Ninebot One Z that @z3n posted? :

One Z seems significantly more compact than Tesla and it is 18 vs 16 inch, not to mention that huge wheel on One Z, same battery capacity.

[kasenutty]

Ooooh, I want both

[Kael]

The chassis design of the Z looks amazing (the visible screws do not, however). I wonder whether it will be a good all rounder, or will the Tesla beat it out for on-road riding. 

[steve454]

We need a direct side shot, the angle has the Tesla closer so the perspective is wrong, it's closer so it looks bigger.  Or better yet.  go to the other side and make the Ninebot the closer one.  Then put all four pictures in.