The Gotway Tesla 1020wh Model Open Box and Initial thoughts

[mezzanine]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Just cushion it up fully (including the pedal undersides) for the first few days where you can not yet get on/stand on it/step off. After that, you'll barely need any protection because it won't fall mostly.

Hopefully it's a good price if it's used, makes the choice of V8 better imho (no real downsides, and a new one would imho be too expensive compared to what a KS16 or Tesla or ACM does for its price). Maybe the guy also has the protective cover for it?

 

Yeah, I hope to cushion it well before attempting to learn.  I have to figure something out for the pedal undersides. 

The V8 was $1000 and includes the cover.  I'm actually kind of curious to see what happens to the price of the V8 on the (very small) used market.  I think there's a chance that the used price will increase now with the introduction of the new pricing structure, regardless what we may think of it.  

Even with the used price on the V8, I would have seriously considered the KS-16S if I'd known that it was available through aliexpress at a decent price.  I basically ruled King Song out of my search, although if I had to bet right now what my next wheel will be, I'd guess the 18L that is being released.  Not for hopefully another year, though.  I put my chances at making it a year without a second wheel at about 50/50, having seen how far the infection has already spread.  

The single comment that most stuck in my mind was by Speedyfeet when he made the comparison in his video review between the V8 and a reliable daily commuter like a Toyota, while comparing the Gotways to vintage sports cars that you drive for fun on weekends.

 

[OneWheel]

Buy early here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GotWay-2017-new-electric-unicycle-16-inch-Tesla-1020wh-84V-high-speed-long-range-/253155210483?hash=item3af139f4f3:g:y8wAAOSwgYVZu9bk

[Kael]

4 hours ago, mezzanine said:

 

Yeah, I hope to cushion it well before attempting to learn.  I have to figure something out for the pedal undersides. 

The V8 was $1000 and includes the cover.  I'm actually kind of curious to see what happens to the price of the V8 on the (very small) used market.  I think there's a chance that the used price will increase now with the introduction of the new pricing structure, regardless what we may think of it.  

Even with the used price on the V8, I would have seriously considered the KS-16S if I'd known that it was available through aliexpress at a decent price.  I basically ruled King Song out of my search, although if I had to bet right now what my next wheel will be, I'd guess the 18L that is being released.  Not for hopefully another year, though.  I put my chances at making it a year without a second wheel at about 50/50, having seen how far the infection has already spread.  

The single comment that most stuck in my mind was by Speedyfeet when he made the comparison in his video review between the V8 and a reliable daily commuter like a Toyota, while comparing the Gotways to vintage sports cars that you drive for fun on weekends.

 

I remember hearing that comparison. Was he trying to imply then, that the Gotways are unreliable? Can't we have the best of both worlds; fast and reliable? Like you, I definitely have the bug now. But deciding on my next wheel is not an easy task. It's such a small market there aren't many expert and trusted opinions you can turn to.

[Pingouin]

37 minutes ago, Kael said:

I remember hearing that comparison. Was he trying to imply then, that the Gotways are unreliable? Can't we have the best of both worlds; fast and reliable? Like you, I definitely have the bug now. But deciding on my next wheel is not an easy task. It's such a small market there aren't many expert and trusted opinions you can turn to.

Some folks here have been using a first generation gotway ACM (moderate fast 39kph), for more than 7000km, every day to commute, under rain, fog, snow, ice...without a single issue.

I never had any issues with gotways, I've been using them alot the past months, no issues, under stormy weather, hot weather, moutain climbs, in dust and sand.

In my city, the V8 owners that I know of, ride very very carefuly, very moderate speed (around 20kph), this might be the reason why they V8 are perhaps thought as more "reliable" than gotways, because they are not used the same way. Gotways are used by extreme riders ( @Marty Backe & @meepmeepmayer I think of you guys ) more often than inmotions, at least that's what I've noticed. Think of a Toyota Prius & a Lamborghini Aventador, I'm not sure you'll drive both the same way, but if you did, maybe you would get the same reliability.

If you ride normaly, with sometimes some top speed & acceleration on a gotway, I'm pretty sure there won't be any issues.

[mezzanine]

45 minutes ago, Kael said:

I remember hearing that comparison. Was he trying to imply then, that the Gotways are unreliable? Can't we have the best of both worlds; fast and reliable? Like you, I definitely have the bug now. But deciding on my next wheel is not an easy task. It's such a small market there aren't many expert and trusted opinions you can turn to.

 

I don't think he implied that Gotways are unreliable, just that they are more likely to need maintenance in part because of what Pingouin is saying about how much harder they're ridden.  I'm convinced there are meaningful differences in the quality of construction/materials between the two wheels, with inmotion having higher standards.

I'm really hoping there are some new options coming in the next year or so in the upper tier market that Gotway has been dominating with their big batteries.  I could upgrade to the already-available KS-16S or 18S and be happy in a year, but I'm hoping to wait until there's something truly exciting coming. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Kael said:

I remember hearing that comparison. Was he trying to imply then, that the Gotways are unreliable? Can't we have the best of both worlds; fast and reliable? Like you, I definitely have the bug now. But deciding on my next wheel is not an easy task. It's such a small market there aren't many expert and trusted opinions you can turn to.

As @Pingouin and @mezzanine have said.

I believe that if you configure (tilt-back and alarm settings) Gotway wheels to that of a V8 you will be driving an incredibly safe wheel. Something like the MSuper with it's big tire, endless energy source (batteries) and brute power will provide lots of safety margin when ridden conservatively.

It's only when you start riding Gotway wheels like a high-end sports car that you may get yourself into trouble. And when you ride them hard there may be maintenance issues.

I prefer riding wheels that give me the choice of how I want to ride. The V8 is a great wheel, but it has lots of limitations. The KingSong wheels are great, but still have limitations when compared to the Gotway offerings. 

Choose your poison 

[meepmeepmayer]

Probably Ian just repaired a lot of Gotways (a lot for him, maybe not relative to the number of wheels sold) and just had to deal with the crazy oscillation issue, and he is hoping the V8 will give him less work in that regard I would not interpret too much into the comparison.

[Marty Backe]

43 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

Some folks here have been using a first generation gotway ACM (moderate fast 39kph), for more than 7000km, every day to commute, under rain, fog, snow, ice...without a single issue.

I never had any issues with gotways, I've been using them alot the past months, no issues, under stormy weather, hot weather, moutain climbs, in dust and sand.

In my city, the V8 owners that I know of, ride very very carefuly, very moderate speed (around 20kph), this might be the reason why they V8 are perhaps thought as more "reliable" than gotways, because they are not used the same way. Gotways are used by extreme riders ( @Marty Backe & @meepmeepmayer I think of you guys ) more often than inmotions, at least that's what I've noticed. Think of a Toyota Prius & a Lamborghini Aventador, I'm not sure you'll drive both the same way, but if you did, maybe you would get the same reliability.

If you ride normaly, with sometimes some top speed & acceleration on a gotway, I'm pretty sure there won't be any issues.

I appreciate the sentiment, but if I'm an extreme rider, what is @EUC Extreme, and others   I'm just a hardcore enthusiast 

[meepmeepmayer]

That ACM hill fry was (a) pretty extreme (demand on the wheel, which is what counts for hardware failures) I'll take the title

[mezzanine]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

As @Pingouin and @mezzanine have said.

I believe that if you configure (tilt-back and alarm settings) Gotway wheels to that of a V8 you will be driving an incredibly safe wheel. Something like the MSuper with it's big tire, endless energy source (batteries) and brute power will provide lots of safety margin when ridden conservatively.

It's only when you start riding Gotway wheels like a high-end sports car that you may get yourself into trouble. And when you ride them hard there may be maintenance issues.

I prefer riding wheels that give me the choice of how I want to ride. The V8 is a great wheel, but it has lots of limitations. The KingSong wheels are great, but still have limitations when compared to the Gotway offerings. 

Choose your poison 

 

My logic was similar when I was looking at the Tesla/ACM.  I think there's a good chance my second wheel will be a Gotway, even though I admit I've come across as especially critical of them.  Especially as a Canadian who is hoping to use their wheel during some of the colder months (not Jan/Feb), the battery size of the Gotways may prove too tempting.  

I hope we get an update video at some point with further impressions; there's no substitute for time on the wheel and I'm guessing there will be some useful comparisons to other Gotway models to be made.  Do we have a confirmed top speed yet?  I know they were talking about doing that test in one of the vids, but I'm not sure they got around to it.   

[Pingouin]

@Marty Backe I do think of you as a symbol of American EUC riders

By extreme, I don't mean off limit riding like @EUC Extreme, but some unusual riding compared to what I am used to seing here in France (most ride surface streets only), like when you went on hiking tracks and got into big trouble, for me that is extreme enough for me to consider you as an extreme rider, and a Gotway God

For the Kingsongs, I think that if you're looking for peformances similar to 84V Gotways, look into the KS18S, it has even more acceleration than the MS3s+, with similar range, speed & power (+50kph, 1500W motor). Inmotion seems to be a much more conservative brand, but which produces finished products oriented towards design & practicality for the every day user, then again, using a high powered gotway like a V8 would certainly mean an enourmous safety margin regarding speed & power, that is how I used my gotways alot, and for now it has proven to be effective regarding reliability.

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

@Marty Backe I do think of you as a symbol of American EUC riders

By extreme, I don't mean off limit riding like @EUC Extreme, but some unusual riding compared to what I am used to seing here in France (most ride surface streets only), like when you went on hiking tracks and got into big trouble, for me that is extreme enough for me to consider you as an extreme rider, and a Gotway God

For the Kingsongs, I think that if you're looking for peformances similar to 84V Gotways, look into the KS18S, it has even more acceleration than the MS3s+, with similar range, speed & power (+50kph, 1500W motor). Inmotion seems to be a much more conservative brand, but which produces finished products oriented towards design & practicality for the every day user, then again, using a high powered gotway like a V8 would certainly mean an enourmous safety margin regarding speed & power, that is how I used my gotways alot, and for now it has proven to be effective regarding reliability.

Thank you 

[Meng Yang]

7 hours ago, mezzanine said:

The single comment that most stuck in my mind was by Speedyfeet when he made the comparison in his video review between the V8 and a reliable daily commuter like a Toyota,

 

For me, after some fun, I'm now a bit tired of the V8 as a "daily commuter" because it rolls nothing like a "Toyota" coz it doesn't like slow work, requiring some speed to keep it inline. Yeah, its that lively and twitchy i.e. agile to the max. Using it to steer around people on crowded side-walks is getting tiring. Thus, its more like a Suzuki Swift Sport than a Toyota. Its lively and fun! But for my daily community around my neighborhood, I"d prefer something more sedate. GT16 certainly felt more stable. Perhaps the KS-16S as well? Surely the 9B too.

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

For me, after some fun, I'm now a bit tired of the V8 as a "daily commuter" because it rolls nothing like a "Toyota" coz it doesn't like slow work, requiring some speed to keep it inline. Yeah, its that lively and twitchy i.e. agile to the max. Using it to steer around people on crowded side-walks is getting tiring. Thus, its more like a Suzuki Swift Sport than a Toyota. Its lively and fun! But for my daily community around my neighborhood, I"d prefer something more sedate. GT16 certainly felt more stable. Perhaps the KS-16S as well? Surely the 9B too.

The MSuper V3 is much more smooth and stable than any of the wheels that you just mentioned. A pure joy to ride slow or fast. Yet also very maneuverable.

[mezzanine]

12 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

For me, after some fun, I'm now a bit tired of the V8 as a "daily commuter" because it rolls nothing like a "Toyota" coz it doesn't like slow work, requiring some speed to keep it inline. Yeah, its that lively and twitchy i.e. agile to the max. Using it to steer around people on crowded side-walks is getting tiring. Thus, its more like a Suzuki Swift Sport than a Toyota. Its lively and fun! But for my daily community around my neighborhood, I"d prefer something more sedate. GT16 certainly felt more stable. Perhaps the KS-16S as well? Surely the 9B too.

 

I can't wait until I have some real-world experience to be able to more easily intuit what you're describing about the different driving characteristics.  It's hard to anticipate what kind of handling is going to appeal to you just reading on paper.  It scares me a bit to read that the V8 may not be as good performing slowly in close quarters as I'd been assuming.  I'm expecting to have to deal with some foot traffic on occasion. 

I know speedyfeet was referring to reliability as opposed to handling when he was making the Japanese car comparison.  He seemed to at least believe that the V8 is super reliable.  I certainly hope he's right because I factored his judgment into my decision, even if just in a minor way.   

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 

I can't wait until I have some real-world experience to be able to more easily intuit what you're describing about the different driving characteristics.  It's hard to anticipate what kind of handling is going to appeal to you just reading on paper.  It scares me a bit to read that the V8 may not be as good performing slowly in close quarters as I'd been assuming.  I'm expecting to have to deal with some foot traffic on occasion. 

I know speedyfeet was referring to reliability as opposed to handling when he was making the Japanese car comparison.  He seemed to at least believe that the V8 is super reliable.  I certainly hope he's right because I factored his judgment into my decision, even if just in a minor way.   

It's not that the V8 doesn't perform well slow, but it takes a lot more effort. Wheels that are twitchy require much more focused energy to ride and this can get tiring when you are in the transportation mode of Point A to Point B. A wheel that just wants to move in a straight line is very comfortable to ride and is not tiring.

When you jump on a V8, Ninebot, KS16, etc you are immediately in All Stations On Duty mode. It can be fatiguing. Don't get me wrong, these wheels are a blast, but when you're in the grind of using the wheel for purely utilitarian purposes, it's not the best scenario.

On the other hand a wheel such as the MSuper V3 (and I imagine the KS18S) just wants to travel in a straight line. They are fantastic road machines yet are very maneuverable when needed.

Imagine driving a manual sports car with tight steering (V8). Now imagine driving a luxury car with floaty power steering (MSuper). They can both travel the same roads, but which one will be more relaxing?

[Marty Backe]

This is why if people have the budget they get multiple wheels to suit the kind of riding that they want to do any particular day. There is no one perfect wheel.

[mezzanine]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

This is why if people have the budget they get multiple wheels to suit the kind of riding that they want to do any particular day. There is no one perfect wheel.

Yup, this is what I'm coming to realize.  Appreciate the clarification about how the V8 compares to the bigger wheels in slow speed handling.  I've got a better idea of the difference.  I think my mistake was in assuming the bigger wheels must be harder to handle relatively in close quarters.

Having never set foot on a wheel, I'm pretty much committed at this point to my second wheel somewhere down the road in order to cover more demanding use cases. 

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[MaxLinux]

On 9/7/2017 at 12:03 AM, Marty Backe said:

Then Gotway introduces the Monster which has two fans (with no ventilation to the outside of the wheel) and the Monster easily overheats.

Hmm, I'm not a scientist, but seems blowing heat around inside an unventilated chamber is of dubious benefit. As usual, a reasonable amount of testing (which for some reason Gotway usually deems unnecessary) would have revealed this.

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The MSuper V3 is much more smooth and stable than any of the wheels that you just mentioned. A pure joy to ride slow or fast. Yet also very maneuverable.

Tried it. Didn't like it. It was put on Soft setting (so can't comment on Hard setting), so didn't feel responsive like the V8. Also, too heavy for me - think it was 22 kg. I've set 20 kg as my max wheel weight, for lifting it up & down stairs. Very smooth indeed. Very fast no doubt. Makes going slow boring. Didn't like the high C.G. like my V8. No integrated trolley. Felt wider than I'd like. Overall, a great wheel for anyone who speeds, cruise, offroad or bumpy roads but not for me coz I need responsiveness, acceleration, integrated trolley, physically carrying the wheel around, low C.G., speeding on flat surfaces and negotiating around people slowly on busy side-walk as well. Thus, Tesla's a God-sent! 

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It's not that the V8 doesn't perform well slow, but it takes a lot more effort. 

Spot on! 

Just that work life is tiring (& stuck at the desk doing admin work with the super-cold air-con blasting until I'm frozen) ... so, many a times, I'm just not in the mood to straight-away jump on the V8 and be in "battle-ready" mode to fight the crowded side-walks ... LOL  I just wanna roll, buy my lunch and be back at my desk to slog some more ... 

However, if you can always get in the mood, then V8 will always be a blast (albeit measured and controlled acceleration & top speed)!

[Meng Yang]

4 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I'm expecting to have to deal with some foot traffic on occasion. 

I know speedyfeet was referring to reliability as opposed to handling when he was making the Japanese car comparison.  He seemed to at least believe that the V8 is super reliable.  I certainly hope he's right because I factored his judgment into my decision, even if just in a minor way.   

No worries about dealing with slow traffic. V8 is capable. Question is, "Is the rider ready?". If the rider has the skills, V8 will measure up. If rider is ready, V8 is ready. But if rider doesn't have the skills, V8 can be a handful. Also, if rider isn't in the mood, the V8 is more demanding than necessary. So, practice and up your skills. Warm-up and get into the mood if you know the route ahead is challenging. V8 is the most responsive wheel out there. If you give it the right inputs, it will give you the right results. On the other hand, if you are sloppy, so will the ride.

Next, V8 is reliable. No doubt. 

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

Tried it. Didn't like it. It was put on Soft setting (so can't comment on Hard setting), so didn't feel responsive like the V8. Also, too heavy for me - think it was 22 kg. I've set 20 kg as my max wheel weight, for lifting it up & down stairs. Very smooth indeed. Very fast no doubt. Makes going slow boring. Didn't like the high C.G. like my V8. No integrated trolley. Felt wider than I'd like. Overall, a great wheel for anyone who speeds, cruise, offroad or bumpy roads but not for me coz I need responsiveness, acceleration, integrated trolley, physically carrying the wheel around, low C.G., speeding on flat surfaces and negotiating around people slowly on busy side-walk as well. Thus, Tesla's a God-sent! 

I don't know what you tried, but apparently it wasn't an MSuper V3. The MSuper has an integrated trolley. Rather hard to miss it.

And of course if you try a wheel in the Soft mode then you can't complain about it not being responsive like the V8. Fair is fair.

[mezzanine]

Sounds like the experience of riding is more intense, in terms of the demand on attention, than I may have been assuming.  At least with some EUCs like the V8.  It makes sense in the context of the steep learning curve.  I think it's more difficult than I'm expecting. 

There was a guy on youtube talking about how when he bought his first wheel, he figured his athletic background or experience with board sports generally would be enable him to pick things up quickly.  I think I'm falling victim to that a bit as a kind of egotism. 

I expected a 40lbs. wheel would probably be too heavy when I was researching initially, but found after some dumbbell experimentation in the gym that it wouldn't be a factor for me. 

[MaxLinux]

On 9/8/2017 at 4:20 PM, houseofjob said:

in the end, you're still riding on the same 16" x 2.125" tire.

Why don't EUC companies want to put a 2.5" tire on a 16 inch wheel?