Meng Yang Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Scatcat said: I think it depends a bit what you mean by responsive though. For example, I think a V8 can't really compare in raw acceleration or breaking with a wheel that is twice as strong - or am I wrong? But being thin and having the pedals high probably means it's agile out of proportion to its 18" when it comes to turning tight circles at low to medium speeds. I haven't tested the V8, but I really doubt it can hold a candle to the acceleration or breaking of a GT16 with a 2kW (nominal) motor. Both are responsive i.e. wheel reacts immediately to any input from you. Have the V8. Tried the GT16 for 30s. Feels both are responsive, but V8 having a slight edge. Its not about acceleration but which one take action first. Heard ACM & MSuper are not as responsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Mrd777 said: I’m curious how we are doing this math? How are we getting 4000w peak on the Tesla , and 3000w peak on gt16 ? https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5318569730 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Spoiler How do I get rid of the freaking Quote? No idea. No Close button. Doesn't work when pressing on Quote button either. Anyway, here's another speed test by a Chinese guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomek Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 9/28/2017 at 1:06 AM, Scatcat said: I think it depends a bit what you mean by responsive though. For example, I think a V8 can't really compare in raw acceleration or breaking with a wheel that is twice as strong - or am I wrong? But being thin and having the pedals high probably means it's agile out of proportion to its 18" when it comes to turning tight circles at low to medium speeds. I haven't tested the V8, but I really doubt it can hold a candle to the acceleration or breaking of a GT16 with a 2kW (nominal) motor. motors can be wired for speed or torque, so a motor with less power, can (and is likely to) have more torque at small speeds than a high-power motor wired for high speed. For example, my 350W generic wheel was much, much more responsive and way better at breaking/accelerating than my 800W MCM4, but had half (or less) the top speed. the other factor is the control algorithm, ie gotway wheels seem to be deliberately soft, to make cruising more comfortable. That said... my GT16 is on its way, so can't wait to test it for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tomek said: the other factor is the control algorithm, ie gotway wheels seem to be deliberately soft, to make cruising more comfortable. The more I ride Gotway, I think the softness is at least in part to allow for quick resetting when the pedals dip. Just my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Tomek said: motors can be wired for speed or torque, so a motor with less power, can (and is likely to) have more torque at small speeds than a high-power motor wired for high speed. For example, my 350W generic wheel was much, much more responsive and way better at breaking/accelerating than my 800W MCM4, but had half (or less) the top speed. the other factor is the control algorithm, ie gotway wheels seem to be deliberately soft, to make cruising more comfortable. That said... my GT16 is on its way, so can't wait to test it for myself. Of course. I get the feeling the GT16 falls somewhere in the middle in that respect. But consider that V8 is 18" and GT16 is 16", one has 800W nominal, the other 2000W nominal. One has 72V the other 84V, which in part explains the difference in lift-cut-off speed, and actual max-speed. So... I haven't actually tried the V8, and it may be all that in terms of responsiveness. And I have to admit that while V2 is a lot safer than V1, the tilt back if you persist beyond 80% power sets a limit on how close to the limit you can go before the wheel protests and straighten you I have caused tilt back that way more than once. I remember the utter confusion the first time it happened. I was running at <10 mph behind a bike, then decided it was just tooooooo boring and used a gap in the opposite lane for overtaking. I went from the <10 mph to >20mph in a second or two, rushing past the hapless biker like a flash, then two beeps and tilt-back... I was still going about 20mph looking down on my wheel with my eyebrows disappearing under my helmet - like "WTF was THAT?!" I knew I was closing on the limit of overleaning, but had gotten used to the EUC just going as if it was nothing. I knew pretty well by that time how many percent of max power I was using, and that was about 75-85% in my experience. That was my first experience of the differences in security between V1 and V2, and let me say I am happy tilt-back is not a violent affair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 45 minutes ago, Scatcat said: .... But consider that V8 is 18" and GT16 is 16"... I think both have 16" wheels? Only the KS18 and MSuper are 18 inchers if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasenutty Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 V8 has 18 inch? Maybe it is interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 6 hours ago, houseofjob said: The more I ride Gotway, I think the softness is at least in part to allow for quick resetting when the pedals dip. Just my theory. Could you please explain this theory little bit more for us who don't yet have experience with Gotway wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, xebeche said: Could you please explain this theory little bit more for us who don't yet have experience with Gotway wheels? Soooo,.... all EUCs pedal dip on turns, especially turning uphill, but Gotway pedal dip is one of the most severe (in my experience) across all current and popular EUC makers. As they dip, one will often try to reset the pedals back parallel with the Earth's plane again by quickly braking, then leaning forward (often doing so multiple times until the pedals are flat). When the pedal response is hard (as in a Ninebot or InMotion feel), the sensation of resetting the dipped pedals is a bit harsh and jerky. But, when the pedal response is soft (as in the softest pedals I've ever tried in the MSuperV3 series), the reset motion is more gentle and swinging-like. Note: not all current model Gotway wheels (including the Tesla) are of the same hardness, with none of their other wheels matching the super softness of the aforementioned MSuperV3. Again, just a theory, as I don't believe they intentionally made their responses soft, but hope that explains better. It really feels like Gotway is making incremental steps to improve these minute details in their motor/firmware tuning, as evidenced by the fairly harder response of the ~2000W nominal Tesla, along with the quieter, almost non-existant PWM motor whine of the Tesla and MTen3. I can imagine someday that they reduce their pedal dip to a smaller, more manageable angle, like the InMotion wheels do (one of the least pedal dip I've experienced). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I noticed that too in Marty's videos of the Mten - it seems whisper quiet as opposed to the high pitched ACM rides. The Tesla also seemed to have a muted sound as well. I wonder if they listened when it was mentioned that maybe coating the copper coils with a damping resin might help with coil whine. It would be interesting to see the differences inside a Tesla/Mten3 motor as compared to the ACM if there are in fact any. Any takers? Or I guess they could have maybe tuned their firmware to reduce the frequency noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 9/28/2017 at 1:13 AM, Kael said: V8 is 16 inch. There isn't an 18 incher from Inmotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 26 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Soooo,.... all EUCs pedal dip on turns, especially turning uphill, but Gotway pedal dip is one of the most severe (in my experience) across all current and popular EUC makers. As they dip, one will often try to reset the pedals back parallel with the Earth's plane again by quickly braking, then leaning forward (often doing so multiple times until the pedals are flat). When the pedal response is hard (as in a Ninebot or InMotion feel), the sensation of resetting the dipped pedals is a bit harsh and jerky. But, when the pedal response is soft (as in the softest pedals I've ever tried in the MSuperV3 series), the reset motion is more gentle and swinging-like. Note: not all current model Gotway wheels (including the Tesla) are of the same hardness, with none of their other wheels matching the super softness of the aforementioned MSuperV3. Again, just a theory, as I don't believe they intentionally made their responses soft, but hope that explains better. It really feels like Gotway is making incremental steps to improve these minute details in their motor/firmware tuning, as evidenced by the fairly hard response of the ~2000W nominal Tesla, along with the quieter, almost non-existant PWM motor whine of the Tesla and MTen3. I can imagine someday that they reduce their pedal dip to a smaller, more manageable angle, like the InMotion wheels do (one of the least pedal dip I've experienced). Thanks for this great explanation ! So far I only have experience with my Inmotion V5F+, which is generally considered to have very hard pedal response. I am considering Tesla (along with Ninebot One Z - we'll soon see how that one turns out) as a potential upgrade for next year, that is why I wanted to understand more what were you talking about. You owned Inmotion V5F and had a chance to try new Tesla from Gotway - can I ask would you personally consider Tesla as a good upgrade path after Inmotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Meng Yang said: There isn't an 18 incher from Inmotion. This has been my dream since I bought first bought the V5F+! 20 minutes ago, xebeche said: Thanks for this great explanation ! So far I only have experience with my Inmotion V5F+, which is generally considered to have very hard pedal response. I am considering Tesla (along with Ninebot One Z - we'll soon see how that one turns out) as a potential upgrade for next year, that is why I wanted to understand more what were you talking about. You owned Inmotion V5F and had a chance to try new Tesla from Gotway - can I ask would you personally consider Tesla as a good upgrade path after Inmotion? There will be almost no wheel harder in response than the V5 series (or Ninebot), but I would put the Tesla response just below that. Honestly, I would rate the Tesla as arguably one of the best 16" wheels on the market right now, and I had zero interest in this model before trying, not being a fan of 16 x 2.125 tires, nor the egg shaped design (still not a fan). The Tesla would be a great upgrade path from any sub ~2000W nominal wheel. But I wouldn't classify the Tesla and V5F+ in the same category; one is about power and stability (Tesla), while the other is about compactness / portability (V5). With the Tesla, you'll be trading size/bulkiness and weight (though I wouldn't say the Tesla feels heavy per say, what with the taller body) with 4x the power (way less high speed, overpower beeps), 2x the max speed, and 2.5x the range than the V5F+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, houseofjob said: This has been my dream since I bought first bought the V5F+! There will be almost no wheel harder in response than the V5 series (or Ninebot), but I would put the Tesla response just below that. Honestly, I would rate the Tesla as arguably one of the best 16" wheels on the market right now, and I had zero interest in this model before trying, not being a fan of 16 x 2.125 tires, nor the egg shaped design (still not a fan). The Tesla would be a great upgrade path from any sub ~2000W nominal wheel. With the Tesla, you'll be trading size/bulkiness and weight (though I wouldn't say the Tesla feels heavy per say, what with the taller body) with 4x the power (way less high speed, overpower beeps), 2x the max speed, and 2.5x the range in the V5F+. Thanks! That is exactly what I am worried about - I am not sure would I be able to swallow that shape, general design and quality level of Gotways (although it does seem they are really improving gradually) after Inmotion. For sure it would be huge power / range upgrade compared to V5F+ and I am aware that it has to unavoidably come with additional weight. As you said, it would be great if Inmotion would release new 16 or 18 inch meticulously designed wheel with wider tire, which would be able to properly compete in this "power" category, but instead they seem to have entered EUC "sleep mode" and focused on other products. I guess it's better to wait and see what Ninebot One Z will offer and then pull the decision trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 50 minutes ago, xebeche said: Thanks! That is exactly what I am worried about - I am not sure would I be able to swallow that shape, general design and quality level of Gotways (although it does seem they are really improving gradually) after Inmotion. Said this in a previous post, maybe on this thread even, but the Tesla feels like a continuation of the previous ACM/MSuperV3/Monster fixes, so I doubt there will be any major new everyday riding, gremlin-type problems to pop-up outside of the ''I weigh a million pounds and my wheel cutout after superman accelerating going 30 grade uphill for 3 million miles non-stop during peak summer temps in the Sahara desert.'' And the Tesla weight is a non-factor IMHO; it actually feels lighter in hand than comparable battery size 16'' wheels. The jump from a 550Watt nominal to above 1kWatt nominal is a huge one IMO, way more ability for aggressive driving with less worrying about overpower; and who knows when InMotion/Inventist might make the jump.... I know I wasn't patient enough to wait ?? If you can stomach the design, and are deadest on 16'' (remember, for all its popularity and hype, the Z is an 18''), the Tesla should be in heavy consideration I think. Either way, with Gotway or Segway/Ninebot, you'll still miss the stuff like the V5 mudguard, the all-time-best V5 trolley, and the InMotion handle cut,... I know I do! (tho fingers crossed the Z has handle cut, just hidden) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 10 hours ago, Meng Yang said: V8 is 16 inch. There isn't an 18 incher from Inmotion. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Ever since I got my V8 last year, I've been pining for an 18" V10 with 50 kph speed. Too bad nothing like that ever came from Inmotion. My V8 is a very good wheel - responsive and agile, but I'm getting tired of its low top speed, low range and top-heavy feel. Much like the V5F, I place the V8 in the same category of "compactness / portability". I have no problem carrying it up & down 4 storey of stairs multiple times a day (& I'm a 58 kg lightweight fellow). So, now I need a "power /stability" wheel which retains excellent torque and acceleration. Since I think Z10 & KS18S/L will lose some acceleration, I've chosen the Tesla. For me, Tesla is better than other 16 inchers because it is up there in power and speed, and comes with an integrated trolley. Just hope it doesn't lose too much responsiveness and agility compared to the V8. I know I will like the Tesla being the 2nd tallest wheel around coz I've found the high V8 to be useful for my upper shin to (1) grab the top for stability at speeds and (2) use 1 shin to press it down upon cornering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 14 hours ago, Scatcat said: consider that V8 is 18" and GT16 is 16", one has 800W nominal, the other 2000W nominal. One has 72V the other 84V, which in part explains the difference in lift-cut-off speed, and actual max-speed. Btw.: beside that the V8 is 16inch.... The working voltage on both wheels is the same! 84 Volts stands for maximum loaded cells, 4,2 volt x 20 72 Volt is the nominal rating, 3,6 volt x 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, Meng Yang said: Ever since I got my V8 last year, I've been pining for an 18" V10 with 50 kph speed. Too bad nothing like that ever came from Inmotion. My V8 is a very good wheel - responsive and agile, but I'm getting tired of its low top speed, low range and top-heavy feel. Much like the V5F, I place the V8 in the same category of "compactness / portability". I have no problem carrying it up & down 4 storey of stairs multiple times a day (& I'm a 58 kg lightweight fellow). So, now I need a "power /stability" wheel which retains excellent torque and acceleration. Since I think Z10 & KS18S/L will lose some acceleration, I've chosen the Tesla. For me, Tesla is better than other 16 inchers because it is up there in power and speed, and comes with an integrated trolley. Just hope it doesn't lose too much responsiveness and agility compared to the V8. I know I will like the Tesla being the 2nd tallest wheel around coz I've found the high V8 to be useful for my upper shin to (1) grab the top for stability at speeds and (2) use 1 shin to press it down upon cornering. Great, then please share your opinion and experiences when you get your Tesla and make some mileage on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 12 hours ago, houseofjob said: Again, just a theory, as I don't believe they intentionally made their responses soft, but hope that explains better. From what i know, the pedal softness and the kind of play the V3 has, is a method to protect the board/mosfets from to high amperage/power draws. The harder the pedal setting is, the better must be the firmware or hardware, as a press on harder pedals generate much more amperage, than on softer pedals. (kind of logic...the wheel has to work more to stay horizontal) That also goes with the logic that harder drive settings are more powerful than the middle and softest one. But yeah, also Gotway seams to get there firmware better and better, as i heard the Tesla is stiffer and there are also new, stiffer Firmware existing for v3s, acms+.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, xebeche said: Great, then please share your opinion and experiences when you get your Tesla and make some mileage on it. Sure. I can give my gut feeling about the ride once I get it, probably late-October. I'm no pro though, so won't be opening up the wheel or know anything about the Math or electrical stuff. By then, most of the wheel would likely have been made know by the others who rides before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Meng Yang said: Sure. I can give my gut feeling about the ride once I get it, probably late-October. I'm no pro though, so won't be opening up the wheel or know anything about the Math or electrical stuff. By then, most of the wheel would likely have been made know by the others who rides before me. Don't worry about electrical stuff and insides, that has already been sufficiently covered by @Tishawn Fahie in his videos. I would like to hear your opinion about Tesla especially because you are currently riding Inmotion wheel like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meng Yang Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, xebeche said: I would like to hear your opinion about Tesla especially because you are currently riding Inmotion wheel like me. Likewise, I'm really eager to know how Tesla feels compared to the Inmotion. A few more weeks to go ..... For now, I'm so bored with my V8 that I don't feel like riding it out to the parks on weekends anymore. Too slow! Its still great for work though. Does all my quick dashes within a 300 m radius around my workplace. Fun! Can't wait to drive my upcoming Tesla down the parks' cycle paths between 40-50 kph, amongst the ever growing groups of electric scooter riders! For now, the speed at which they pass me and their incessant use of air horns scares me on my slow V8. To date, I've tried the MSuper V3S+, but because its on Soft setting, I didn't like the sluggish feel. I've also tried the GT16 - while not as lively and communicative as my V8 (it feels a bit wooden), I like that its very stable at low speeds, and can turn almost as well as the V8. I chose the Tesla in the end because of its integrated trolley, rock-solid ACM-like stability and has closed ventilation system (compared to GT16's and KS18S's open ventilation system) for riding in the rain (my gaming PC was placed near the windows and its motherboard and graphics card died soon coz of the moisture). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Morris Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I'm a v8 rider in the same place as @Meng Yang the v8's top speed is starting to get annoying. I ordered a whole bunch of protective gear and a Tesla from China. I really wanted to order from ewheels but November eta is after daylight savings and my riding will be drastically cut. Gets here on Monday, will post a comparison asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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